I'm interpreting this: post 227 as Baby Spice being coming off as genuine + gut.... Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
↑sottyrulez wrote:I find post 125 pretty scummy. Just the support of both of the underwhelming Nostredeus and Shadow wagons is all kinds of blegh.
That's an interesting point (gonna iso TGAH, thought I was reading him town)
↑Cerulean wrote:I think your push on nost is reaching because he reads fairly townish in his response, and really
what would your opinion of him been if he had clung to the not wise thing of mass name claiming?
Good question.
↑DeasVail wrote:Benmage, why did you give away that you don't like early cutesy behaviour at the time when you'd most expect it from scum?
Guess I wasn't thinking there, and just trying to engage in convo's.
↑camn wrote:Im sure they would post a QT to 'prove' it, if that werent against the rules (
and famously faked in the past
)
Where was this, I've wanted to do that forever, but sadly I don't Hydra. There was a game where all the Hydra did was post partner conversations... they were universally accepted as town. I was scum (think I had to NK them)
↑Plessiezarus wrote:Not quite as bad as the people who are voting SAD because of his RP, but close
Outside of SafetyDance, who else voted SAD for RP?
↑Plessiezarus wrote:Don't think much of the wagon on Nostrodeus. The name-claim suggestion sounds more like a sign of inexperience (either in Farday-modded games in particular or Large Theme games in general), and the rest of his posts seem consistent with this.
Ditto this.
↑Cerulean wrote:I have a pretty easy time reading Arthur
but I'm struggling this game I think largely due to his RP'ing.
↑Cerulean wrote:I don't see how SafetyDance's vote on Arthur in #113 is overexplained at all, in fact my problem with it is the exact opposite - it feels extremely lazy and undercooked.
Overexplained in the sense that, once he said he was sheeping Benmage and voting because of the "annoying" RP, the comment about SAD's avatar seem redundant? Like, why say that at all unless you're worried your vote might be seen as too unoriginal? ("Overexplained" doesn't mean "not lazy".)
Don't really care that he didn't comment on the "major topics of discussion", since ... yeah, they were boring.
I think taking both views makes it pretty bad for Safety.
-You have him ignoring most discussion.
-You have a shit vote, with shittier explanations (this clearly isn't an rvs vote... but the reason is piss poor)
---As I said before, scum sometimes have difficulty genuinely interjecting themselves into a game.
↑McStab wrote:Also for the sake of posterity in case my tinfoil hat theory starts looking plausible a Benmage-CDB-Nost scumteam works really well
I'm baffled at naming a 3 man scum team this early.
Plessie
:
At first I thought the snide remark to Tammy in iso 1, was a form of buddying. I’ve had scum try and be cute to me in their first post.... The fact that he admits being snide in post 135 threw me a little bit..Though is overall lack of contribution led to my early suspicion, and wasn’t really alleviated until his recent posting which looks a lot better with actual apparent review.
↑The Mini-Librarian wrote:Not liking peta (not engaged in the game, coasting through)
i just have no idea what i'm doing
Can you link to a previous game where you felt that the game was above you? You have over 2300 posts on the site, and frankly I don't believe you.
**I want to take a look at the Shadow wagon, how it sprung up, the Nost hate and review Jason... But I have a meeting in about 30 mins.
Also Mod I'm going skiing this weekend So V/LA till Monday
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:14 am
by absta101
Back.
Need to skim through these pages.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:21 am
by Plessiezarus
↑camn wrote:First- I DID answer that question! But Perez didn't notice in his eagerness to create a counter crap case. Attack your attacker, hmm?
I looked for an answer, didn't see one. Still don't, really, unless the second sentence of 147 was meant to be one. Was it?
Also, I ... pretty obviously haven't made a case on you? Asking you a question is not a case. (And you can't really think 254 was intended as a response to 253 -- I simply can't write that much in five minutes.)
↑camn wrote:Third- the sudden uptick in your post volume after they catch a vote? Classic lurkerscum.
This is also silly. Well done. My post volume increased after my first couple of posts. And?
↑petapan wrote:vifam delivering one liners isn't relevant to his alignment that's just how he posts also he's p clearly posting content so ur dum imho
Calling someone dumb only works if you can actually use correct grammar, punctuation and spelling and not with the result that you make yourself look dumb in the process.
This is a town reaction to an insult. Not that strong but it's good enough to make jason leaning town.
The insult wouldn't really apply to scum-Jason (assuming Vifam isn't scum) so he could've just ignored it. Plus, this looks quite genuine.
He's only slight town because faking the reaction as scum isn't hard, I've done it before.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:21 am
by Plessiezarus
Pless wanted me to discuss why I didn't like Shadoweh's reaction to her wagon ages ago; it was mostly because I read her reaction to the votes piling up onto her in #97 as fake. The whole combination with the over the top language and the "your accusation is unfair, give me something to counter-argument with you" tone, basically.
↑Cerulean wrote:Normally, I have a pretty easy time reading Arthur but I'm struggling this game I think largely due to his RP'ing. Tammy's told me his scum game has been improving, though, citing the recently finished Westeros game. Do you and Zar feel like he's playing similarly here or not (and why)?
Empire: neither of us sees where the Dayne town reads are coming from; we don't think the RP+aggressiveness/activity levels are relevant at all to his alignment. His self-assurance of calling the townreads on him naive doesn't sit well with me; especially knowing that he wouldn't be able to get away with this in the game with three people that followed his class act in the last Westeros Large Theme (BTW: Before the alts change, you should read that Monster known as Mafia 97 in Westeros), As Pless mentioned, Arthur was scum there. Your co-head can give you the insides to that but he was the House Dayne alt.
↑DeasVail wrote:PEdit: I'll expand on townreads if people feel that it would help with their read on the player in question. Or even if someone just really feels that my explanation for a townread would be the key to determining my alignment. I realise that I haven't said who I townread yet though.
Taking this post into account and your comments in #251
I'm going to bank on this for some more peeking into your brain. So far I've seen people give reasoning out for SAD (which I have my reservations with and Pless touched later); and Benmage (I find Benmage difficult to read but unlike Pless I remember his play being different in ADwD, The White Flag and the other ASOIAF game I read). I agree with your Cerulenan/Channel Town read (though my early impression was that CDB read scummy until #106).
Anyway, can you give out the reasoning to your townreads (though I'm particularly interested in Shadoweh / camn / Nostredeus / TML)?
(For the record, DeasVail's #183 is a very null post, coming from DeasVail... In my first game I found him scummy for being waffly before, but later came to realize that ambivalence is how he approaches the game).
↑petapan wrote:vifam delivering one liners isn't relevant to his alignment that's just how he posts also he's p clearly posting content so ur dum imho
Calling someone dumb only works if you can actually use correct grammar, punctuation and spelling and not with the result that you make yourself look dumb in the process.
This is a town reaction to an insult. Not that strong but it's good enough to make jason leaning town.
The insult wouldn't really apply to scum-Jason (assuming Vifam isn't scum) so he could've just ignored it. Plus, this looks quite genuine.
He's only slight town because faking the reaction as scum isn't hard, I've done it before.
So your alignment determines how offended you'll get to being called dumb? Good to know. I was thinking that was a personality thing.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:26 am
by absta101
↑Vifam wrote:That was back when I gave a fuck and was on tryhard mode
Vifam is scum for using the word tryhard.
Have I played a game with you before? Your name sounds familiar.
---
Petapan is prob scum finding it hard to create reads.
↑Vifam wrote:That was back when I gave a fuck and was on tryhard mode
Vifam is scum for using the word tryhard.
Have I played a game with you before? Your name sounds familiar.
---
Petapan is prob scum finding it hard to create reads.
DV is slight town due to meta (from memory).
Is this post a joke or are you being serious? Not being snarky, I really want to know if this is a joke post.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:33 am
by absta101
@cerullen - If I called scum player a retard for having shit reads for example, it wouldn't really apply because their reads are made up. Town would get pissed off if they were insulted like that. Personality plays a part but Jasons response looked genuine.
Why is safetydance scum to you?
P-Edit: DV is a slight town read. Peta is prob scum.
↑absta101 wrote:@cerullen - If I called scum player a retard for having shit reads for example, it wouldn't really apply because their reads are made up. Town would get pissed off if they were insulted like that. Personality plays a part but Jasons response looked genuine.
Why is safetydance scum to you?
P-Edit: DV is a slight town read. Peta is prob scum.
He wasn't called a retard for having shit reads, he was calle dumb for claiming that a posting style was alignment indicative. He returned an insult. People get offended at getting called dumb, not certain alignments. And Jason's warning to vifam read really fake, but I really don't care about his reaction to being called dumb. What do you think of the actual content he's provided so far?
So, is it your experience that scum have a hard time giving scum reads. This game is a minefield of scummy behavior already, and any halfway competent scum would be able to pick something up and go with it. Getting actual reads is much harder than making up a read, especially if you're trying to discern the scum from the scummy posts. So, the scum read on peta for not being able to make up a scum read is really lame.
↑Cerulean wrote:The disagreement thing is something, I'm not real sure why you find suspicious, but is going to happen.
Lets stop talking about you, and start talking about
Plessizarus
The whole idea that they are having an internal DEBATE is predicated on the assumption that they are town, which I can't do at this point in the game.
If they are scum, then certainly there is no
disagreement
about who is scum, right? But it is TOTALLY in their scum-interest to give us that impression. How? By telling us all about their disagreements! Im sure they would post a QT to 'prove' it, if that werent against the rules (and famously faked in the past)
It's like they are distancing with another player- which is obv scummy this early in the game- only the other player is THEMSELVES, so we cant even lynch them for faction association.
Which is why they get my vote.
Because in THIS case.. Plessizarus is stating that they are having a debate of sorts, in fact in 135 they refer to some opinion that one of the heads has that they miraculously have time to discuss in the QT- but not in-thread.
That, to me, is one of three things.
a) blatantly anti-town. We need to hear the discussion.. the reasoning.. the data. We need it.
OR
b) a lie. There is no internal discussion, because they KNOW everyones faction already... and they are just saying that to look town (as outlined above)
OR
c) misdirection. They are Power-Hunting or SK-hunting in the QT.. but they flip the script to look like they are SCUM-hunting.. for reasons just explained.
Savvy?
I'm not sure if I'm following some of this. I don't see where they had an internal debate or tried to pretend they did. Pless said that zar said he didn't like shadoweh's reaction to her wagon, but not why because he was busy. (this makes sense as its the type of notes I've left if I'm in a hurry and want to discuss later.).
And he said that zar was townreading me because of mistaken identity. They're not even disagreeing, and I'd wager that pless was half teasing me with part of that. We're all friends and play at another site. It would make sense for them to try to get a read on me first, so they could put me to the side and have someone to discuss things with If they wanted. Zar has a history of reading me as scum when I'm town (though after seeing me as scum recently a couple times I think he's picking up on how to read me as town) while pless reads me as town mostly. And " zar is reading you as town based on post 99 which I don't believe is you" seems a little pedestrian for them as scum. Now I could see him going look Tammy's already being bitchy and it's not even page 4 or something and that conversation being touched up for effect, but that also doesn't seem natural.
Leaving notes for your partner in the qt is really quick, especially when theyre half formed. empire and i have notes on players in our qt and aim log we really haven't mentioned yet in thread for a variety of reasons. And I didnt get the impression from that that they had a discussion, so much as zar left his thoughts in whatever they use, and pless had read them.
To address your:
A) I'm going to chuckle at this. Trust me you don't want to see this. There was a point in mafia stuck where dayne and I were posting at the same time, and instead of going to our qt, we just outright starting discussing and debating our reads in the thread. Most people didnt appreciate seeing the discussion and asked us to take it to the qt every time we did it, we weren't always cooperative, and other people went "look they're trying to fake hydra dissonance since everyone thinks that's town.". There's really no winning. Most of the time you can tell when it's real and when it's not as it's not really the easiest thing to fake.
The others I'm not going to address, they're valid points but I haven't seen even the slightest evidence of that happening yet, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:40 am
by petapan
↑absta101 wrote:Petapan is prob scum finding it hard to create reads.
Where is Zach and why hasn't he been posting that much?
(Yes, this deserved a giant bold header.)
~~
I have some weaker townreads I'm not ready to talk about yet because I get the impression that a lot of people are struggling getting reads this game and I don't want to ease people into the game. I think our scumreads at this point are pretty well stated and both of us agree on the Jason vote. SafetyDance is not a bad vote either though. I'm kind of eh on McStab, I think his attack on Nostredeus is pretty shitty and applies too high of a standard for him regarding his level of competence. Not sure if it's scum motivated, though, need to see more from him.
Zach's car broke down on Tuesday, and Zach has been preoccupied with all the scrambling that entails getting another one.
On that note
we are going to be V/LA through the weekend.
Jason is town btw. He's being ridiculously silly in his actions this game. That is town Jason to a T. (Sotty and I are both confident in stating this so I'm confident in the read.)
(think I had to NK them)