Mafiascum.net

In post 270, mastin2 wrote:Also, I know I said (and Mae agrees) that Mhork vs. Funky can't be scum-scum, but I'm kinda getting a gut feeling today that, somehow, despite all logic pointing to that not being right, it actually is right. Hence, another reason why having the two wagons be Funky and Mhork would be better.

Because funky-mhork can't be scum-scum this combination of wagons is better? Lining up lynches much?
What about the town-town combination? You seem to automatically assume just because they can't be scum-scum, they have to be scum-town or town-scum.

What is Maemuki selling? Her last post was terrible and I've even pointed out for you why.

Mastin. 270 is bad. and you should feel bad.

In post 272, Grimgroove wrote:

In post 268, shos wrote:I did not unvote him due to his content being fewer. I unvoted him because I strongly believe funky is scum, and I'm less sure about his slot.

And you literally said in post 257 that this difference in certainty is due to their ammount of posts. Literally.
So yes, you did unvote Maemuki due to this difference in numbers. This is not a misrep. You say yourself you think they're both scummy so that's not where the difference is. The difference is solely in the numbers, which are the reasons for your firmer belief in funckyscum, that being the reason for the unvote of Maemuki.

no. I can explain it better that way, maybe:

say you have two graphs, one is (1,1),(2,2),(3,3),(4,4),(5,5), the other is (2,2),(4,4). it LOOKS like both next in series would be (6,6). but it is safer to say this with the first graph; how do you know the second one isn't (8,8)?

..hopefully that went through..

The difference between the two graphs being their number of points.

...

Anyway, pointless discussion (hehe).
I don't think Maemuki deserves any unvoting after that last post. I find your reasons to do so odd and your way of defending it, though containing a form of logic, not entirely natural.

*sigh* point is that I did not 'unvote'. I voted a safer choice. in the future when I get more points, I'll feel safer lynching the other graph.

And I'm saying the last post of Maemuki did not make a vote on her any less safe.

Eh. Not sure. Part of me wants Funky lynched, but if we want Mhork first that's fine.

Guys -- when Mastin replaced into MstS -- I was able to ping him right away, this game he's different. He's not scum.

I'm not getting lynched, malakittens >.>

Mastin is obviously not scum. That doesn't make him right on me. What do you think of Mae?

Mastin is probtown.

Anyone explain case on mhork?

well ya see there's no town in my posts. Therefore I must be scum.

Well you can be sk too, don't rush calling yourself scum

I am disappointed with the lack of attention for Maemuki's last post. It's so bad it's really hard to miss.

Mastin is town, but I think he's a bit too proud to consider any options other than the ones his gut proposed to him when he arrived here. This makes him useless.

Malakittens for some reason let's Mastin pull her chords. I don't know if they have some meta-luvin going on, but if they don't, Malakittens proneness to being led by Mastin feels fishy.

Shos is still getting the hang of mafia-games. Pretty sure he's town but I don't generally find myself agreeing with his line of thinking.

Counting on elleheathen to help me in opening the rest of town's eyes, she seems to be a sensible person. Mhork might have other fish to fry disspelling Mastin's gut-feelings (good luck Mhork, you're still town in my book so hold on to that thought).

I need to do another ISO on funkytown. I guess I could move to vote him given this

funky's behavior at the start of the game was very strange. It seemed extremely nervous. There was a whole lot of backpedalling going on, and like elleheathen already stated in a response to his rethorical question from 28: it IS weird. Also in his case there's some flawin his reasoning as well: while he first claims to be wary of derphammers, in 33 this suddenly turns into a fear of derphammering (I guess he means quickhammering) scum. Some small inconsistency there that I don't like. After this debacle I have the feeling funky slipped away from everyone's attention, mostly thanks to shos.

hasn't changed much. Need to ISO him again I think.

But I want the Maemuki being a scum-option acknowledged first before possibly moving to a consensus on funky. You never know if I'm not around to see the next day, and if Maemuki is still there and I'm not I want to know that she's not going to disappear under the radar.

I will not be part of a lynch of Mhork today. I'll tell you right now I'll even prefer a no-lynch over a Mhork-lynch.

And what about bv103? ? That slot has become close to unreadable, but from what I can read it doesn't look very good.

Maemuki-bv103 is my Day 1 guess for a scumteam. You guys have to pay me a tribute with a mix of Disney-songs after the game, if I am correct.

Here's more reason for you to vote funky.

In post 130, shos wrote:well I have to say this looks good. it looks even extra good when you look at the timestamps between the messages; unless he's like super-adamant-elegant scum who prepared it all up ahead and posted in good periods of time, this looks like a true townsperson taking his time to go over ISOs of practically everyone.

In post 147, shos wrote: btw inb4 someone claims that my indication of the time stamps of GG's post is null, FUCK OFF, lol

In post 148, funkybike1 wrote:And the timestamp thing is null. Too easy for scum to do.

In post 150, shos wrote:Spoonfed against me, lol. When i pushed a townread with bad reason you called me scum for it. Now I do the same and you are silent, only mentioning it because I told you so, and not pushing it at all?

that should do.

if it isn't clear: funky pushed me for that townread in gamestart because people went along with him. Now, I *literally* told him hey look, it is me being scummy there! - so he agreed and moved on, since nobody said anything about it.

Okay, so I finally had a half-hour of free time before bed tonight. The following are every post I want to address.

In post 194, Lord Mhork wrote:You seem so familiar. Shos, have we played together before? I feel like we have.

Whatever. He really doesn't seem to care about votes which I do enjoy.

UNVOTE: Shos

VOTE: Maemuki

So I didn't realize that both GG AND Elle were already here. This is a really sexy wagon, guys. Hop on board! o/

Why is Mae a good wagon? I went through your iso and all I found for reasoning was that she hasn't contributed to anything besides one tunnelled read. Not saying that's a bad reason, but I'd love a bit more reasoning before I join.

In post 199, shos wrote:Yes, we have.
Will join wagon from home

Same question to you. It's possible I missed it, but what's your logic to joining the wagon on Mae here?

In post 208, mastin2 wrote:

In post 203, Lord Mhork wrote:Lax posting isn't always town though. Scum likes to coast too.

Thing is, you're associating coasting and lax posting as being synonymous; they are not. Mae's posting isn't coasting. Beyond feeling like it, you can tell. Coasting is doing half-assed scumhunting--just enough to be below the radar. Mae's not doing that, as evident by being at L-1. Mae's posting distinctly is that of someone who doesn't give a damn. Now, admittedly, yes. It's possible that Mae's scum not giving a damn. (Possible, not probable.) But Mae sure as hell doesn't read that way to me.

In post 204, shos wrote:mastin hun, is there a chance this is how you play as town too? perhaps you can link me to town games of yours?

Yes, it is; no, I can't. I've got 120+ games (hell, probably 130+ by now), and they're scattered throughout time and forum. There's a REASON I asked for help updating my wiki; it's because I've played in so many games that I've lost track of them.

Plus, going into MD theory a bit, I adjust my play every single game, to the circumstances. Sometimes, I'll strongly use reasons and intuition. Other times, I'll use mainly gut and instinctive reactions to things. It all depends from game to game, off of the context behind it. And going into MD theory even further, the border between logic and gut is thinner than most people think; I see them as two different aspects of the same entity, rather than two separate entities. I'll see something tripping my gut and try to think of reasonable explanations, and I'll ALSO gather evidence, process it, analyze it (all logic), but ultimately form my conclusion off of what I feel. (Gut.)

But in GENERAL, as scum I use logic a lot more. The reason being that as scum, I know the picture of the game much better overall, and thus, know how to make arguments that are more coherent. As town, my thought process is generally scattered and lacks focus. But as scum, having a much more clearly-defined objective, I can make a much better stance on things. There's a reason I used to half-joke that logic was a scumtell for me. And it's exactly that.

As town, I use gut a lot more. The reason largely being that my logic seems to lead me astray. I don't have that perfect process, so even if my train of thought is correct, I'll often come to the wrong conclusion if I'm working off of logic. Or something like that. I dunno, I guess it's just much easier for me to use gut as town than it is for me to use logic as town.

This post bothers me on a gut level. None of this information is remotely useable, but you can point at it later and go "look, I already explained this is my town play".

In post 222, Grimgroove wrote:

In post 221, funkybike1 wrote:Mae, give me one good reason to not just hammer you and get it over with.

Because you'll be most probably be lynched if you do.
I guess this is an intent to hammer? Not too sure if it isn't too early for that. Would like to hear more from people like BV (!!), MAlakittens and of course, Maemuki herself before it gets to that.

UNVOTE:

No need to rush things. But the pressure is definitely still on, Maemuki, so don't get too comfortable and please respond.

I agree with your unvote, I disagree with how you phrased it. At this point in the game, no one is going to be dumb enough to hammer without ample time for Mae's answers. Drawing more attention to the votes would have the exact same effect, while maintaining actual pressure on Mae to contribute.

In post 233, elleheathen wrote:Did I miss who Mae's claiming - because that just looks

flavorful

as opposed to a

flavor claim

.

In post 232, Lord Mhork wrote:Yeah but flavor claim doesn't prove alignment. It's not really worth unvoting for.

You don't think our flavor chars will represent good/bad from Les Mis? - Do you think it's random?

I have a hard time believing that.

And for those that don't think it matters, what do you think of a mass flavor name claim at some point?

Do you seriously not think scum will have fakeclaims if their name gives away their alignment? Name-claiming is pointless at best, and actively dangerous at worst. It's easy to get stuck up debating whether Thenardier would be Scum or a Miller-Town role, and that actively hurts our ability to win. Plus, it gives scum extra information. If scum are aiming nightkills, giving them the information to target specific characters who are likely to have ability X is bad.

In post 271, Lord Mhork wrote:Hey.

Hey mastin.

Hey.

What's townie about Mae's posting? Her post was wrong and based in her making things up that didn't actually happen. Where's the town in her posting? Where's the town motivation in misrepresenting me?

I actually would like an answer to this too. I don't see the Town in Mae's posts. I don't see guaranteed Town in anyone this game, but Mae's certainly not at the top of my safe list.

In post 280, Malakittens wrote:Eh. Not sure. Part of me wants Funky lynched, but if we want Mhork first that's fine.

Guys -- when Mastin replaced into MstS -- I was able to ping him right away, this game he's different. He's not scum.

This is bad. If you think Funky should be lynched, then make your case. If you're in favour of the Mhork lynch, then explain why. Don't coast with the flow. Believe in your votes, and explain them!

In post 285, Grimgroove wrote:I am disappointed with the lack of attention for Maemuki's last post. It's so bad it's really hard to miss.

Mastin is town, but I think he's a bit too proud to consider any options other than the ones his gut proposed to him when he arrived here. This makes him useless.

Malakittens for some reason let's Mastin pull her chords. I don't know if they have some meta-luvin going on, but if they don't, Malakittens proneness to being led by Mastin feels fishy.

Shos is still getting the hang of mafia-games. Pretty sure he's town but I don't generally find myself agreeing with his line of thinking.

Counting on elleheathen to help me in opening the rest of town's eyes, she seems to be a sensible person. Mhork might have other fish to fry disspelling Mastin's gut-feelings (good luck Mhork, you're still town in my book so hold on to that thought).

I need to do another ISO on funkytown. I guess I could move to vote him given this

funky's behavior at the start of the game was very strange. It seemed extremely nervous. There was a whole lot of backpedalling going on, and like elleheathen already stated in a response to his rethorical question from 28: it IS weird. Also in his case there's some flawin his reasoning as well: while he first claims to be wary of derphammers, in 33 this suddenly turns into a fear of derphammering (I guess he means quickhammering) scum. Some small inconsistency there that I don't like. After this debacle I have the feeling funky slipped away from everyone's attention, mostly thanks to shos.

hasn't changed much. Need to ISO him again I think.

But I want the Maemuki being a scum-option acknowledged first before possibly moving to a consensus on funky. You never know if I'm not around to see the next day, and if Maemuki is still there and I'm not I want to know that she's not going to disappear under the radar.

I will not be part of a lynch of Mhork today. I'll tell you right now I'll even prefer a no-lynch over a Mhork-lynch.

And what about bv103?

mod

? That slot has become close to unreadable, but from what I can read it doesn't look very good.

Maemuki-bv103 is my Day 1 guess for a scumteam. You guys have to pay me a tribute with a mix of Disney-songs after the game, if I am correct.

Like I said above, just use BV for me. I tend to gloss past things that don't refer to me directly. Also, don't try and get me replaced. That annoys me a lot. If I get overwhelmed by work, I'll replace out on my own.

Anyway, I agree with your point on Mala here. That post of hers was atrocious. The rest of this post grinds at me though. I have a personal hatred of one-line reasoning, specifically because it looks like good content, while still leaving us with basically nothing to work with.

What's your reason for being so anti-Mhork lynch? It's far from my first choice, but I firmly believe that even a mislynch gives us good information to build on. Saying that the post is a dead lock for Town with no reasoning is not great for us.

It's the fact that Mae was fluffy and also doing little half attacks with me and just generally being super passive and trying to skirt under the radar.

I'd do more detail, but I have a foot out the door.

I have to admit that mala and bv have lied under my radar entirely this game. I'll have to make som rereading when I have time.

@your question: I believe I annswered it already. the selective participation, mainly.

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

Vote Count 1.11

Lord Mhork (L-3): Maemuki, mastin2
Malakittens (L-5):
mastin2 (L-5):
bv310 (L-5):
Maemuki (L-2): elleheathen, Lord Mhork, Grimgroove
shos (L-5):
Grimgroove (L-5):
elleheathen (L-5):
funkybike1 (L-3): Malakittens, shos

Not voting: bv310, funkybike1

V/LA: funkybike1 through 10/15

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-19 00:44:01)

In post 288, bv310 wrote:I have a personal hatred of one-line reasoning, specifically because it looks like good content, while still leaving us with basically nothing to work with.

That's what you get for "glossing over things that don't directly affect you". This post was meant as a summary, representing my key thoughts.
If you want to know more, read the rest.

I prefer using fullnames. When I mention bv103 it's more visible than mentioning bv.

Gg, respond to 286-7

I don't really understand your point there.
Are you saying funky was scummy for raising reservations around the townread you gave me based on my times of posting?

I think you misread him. When he said "that's easy for scum to do", he didn't say you could be scum for giving me that townread, he said I could still be scum, timing my posts in such a way in order to look town.

Don't see anything extraordinary about that, to be honest. If anything, that kind of paranoia would be more prevalent in town. Where do you see the scummy intentions?

@bv310: Why did you ask Mhork and shos for more reasons to join the Maemuki-wagon, while at the same time completely ignoring mine?

When it comes to me not wanting a Mhork-lynch, I explained why I think he's town, and why, along with elleheathen, he's my main townread. It's right at the start of my catch-up, and nothing has changed since then when it comes to Mhork.

So, wherever you said there is no reasoning, I fear you simply have not read my reasoning (or did not remember it). I'll blame it on half an hour having been too short to actually read-up on this game in greater detail.
Why you'd pretend that to be enough to make statements like the one you made, I don't know.

And about me asking for your replacement, I didn't. I asked for the slot to become readable and for an update on your prod-status. In the first place the slot becoming readable is up to you.

You misunderstood. Of course i may be wrong. But this is practically the same as the townread gamestart for the l-1. Why didnt he push it now? Why did he push it then?

Maybe. But I think the main reason why you find this so convincing is because it involves you. From a third-party perspective (referring to me being a third party in the shos-funky interactions), it's not really as telling. You're reading more town now to a lot of people compared to the beginning, so it's normal you'll be getting less scrutiny compared to the initial phase.

I still prefer a Maemuki-lynch.

But I'll shut up now for a bit, I'm starting to feel I'm taking up way too much space in this topic.

I think you're fine. I would compete for space, but mastin and Mae haven't come back yet. :/

who cares if I'm town to most people? funky himself said in post 216 that his opinion is not shared. that means that up until post 216 at least, he still thought I was scum, supposedly. but then again, in post 147 when I layed a trap for him, he took the bait IMMEDIATELY, saying that it is null (hence: spoonfed), and then he just...did nothing? earlier in the game, where it was popular, he pushed on PRECISELY the same thing: a townread with a null reasoning. But now, when it's just unpopular, he sits quiet despite the fact that I announced it and he acknowledged it.

I dunno, in my book, a collection of:
0. sees X do Y
1. pushes X for scum for Y, with support of townies
2. still thinks X is scum
3. sees X do Y again
4. doesn't push X for scum for Y, no support of townies

means that this person is trying to look like he's scumhunting. this person is scum - he doesn't have scumreads: he goes with the flow and pushes when it gets him towncred.