In post 203, Kagami wrote:1-shot commute isn't strong enough to make me think that scum would be all about eliminating players with it. Any townie lynch is a good lynch for scum.
Scum are probably trying to out-WIFOM various townies about when they'll burn their commutes. Having closer to guaranteed kills later in the game is probably something scum are going to want to hold on to.
I think he is town. I initially had some gut town-vibes but the push on BROseidon was what solidified the read for me. I am not worried about Pie saying that
BRO is discrediting him because he did it with Varsoon in a very similar way in Imperishable Night and fits in with the range of behaviors I'd expect from town-Pie.
In post 133, Varsoon wrote:Furthermore, you're discrediting me at every turn, which is a typical disarming method used by scum. You're not interested in asking me questions or sussing me for any sort of information behind my vote, you're just condemning my slot and trying to suffocate me.
If anything pisses me off in this game, it's when players devalue what other players have to say.
okay here's a question
what makes you think I'm just trying to devalue what you say, instead of actually believing what you said is scummy? as it is, you've given no reason beyond me being scum, making this logic circular.
In post 133, Varsoon wrote:No, you shitlord, it's me questioning why you don't make the same arguments against every player, but cherrypick your scumhunting.
because I have a townread on BROs, while I had no such townread on you.
In post 133, Varsoon wrote:If anything, it's critical of you more than BRO, because it shows a hiccup in coherency and logic in your play.
so you saw your redirection wasn't going to work, and thus realized your only option was to try to defeat me directly?
In post 133, Varsoon wrote:FURTHERMORE, nice try to appeal to OTHER PLAYERS instead of immediately answer my question.
It's not rhetorical, so get to it.
excuse me for working together with other people...
In post 134, Varsoon wrote:zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.
1. I have no completed games with you. how would I have any way of knowing you're an easy mislynch?
2. this implies my vote on you was intended towards a lynch. now let me requote this
Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?
you claim that your vote on him didn't put the slot in danger of being lynched. so why do you assume my vote puts you in danger of being lynched?
In post 134, Varsoon wrote:Actually, yeah, fuck it, I've just amassed a WAY better case against you, pieguy. zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.
VOTE: Pieguyn
Good luck trying to get me to budge. I've got my hooks in you, and you've already dodged my questions once. Answer them now, or just give up, scum.
so now you're just going to discredit everything I've done? after accusing me of discrediting what you've done? no thx
In post 136, Varsoon wrote:You also have a REALLY awkward preoccupation with communicating directly to Morph and BRO. I picked up on this when BRO voted me immediately after you, thinking it was a little awkward that you'd have so much back and forth with him in game and then he'd support your vote and try to build on your case for you, but what really tipped me off to this was when I asked you a question and your immediate post following that was "is that abrasive enough for you morph?"
Why are you so preoccupied with those two players, specifically?
again, excuse me for working together with other people
let me know if I missed anything
BRO, I am not sure about yet. Need to re-read the meta to see if I agree with Pie. What are your thoughts on BRO?
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:29 pm
by BROseidon
In post 223, Kagami wrote:Because knowledge of what it meant from someone who hadn't claimed weak themselves implies the knowledge came from elsewhere (presumably fake-claims or other information that the mod might give to scum a la sabotage mafia). Scum who had actually gotten this knowledge would be very unlikely to let on, imo.
See my point about miller/PGO fake claims.
I'm town reading you/Bert right now because the play is more likely to come from town, but I'm not going to conftown you for it.
In post 221, mykonian wrote:and if that isn't the case, it's kagami who was quick of mind. That'd be a nice gambit. Low risk high reward etc. Confirm "just" bert (soz, but you know what I mean) while setting up a fakeclaim straight away, and getting a ton of towncred if nobody is ticked off by you thinking about the setup so much.
it's not out of the question. I know if I was well awake and my fakeclaim was something "weak human" or it was talked about by the mod or anything, it only takes some steady nerves to abuse Bert coming in like he did. I don't know kagami's nerves (yet). I don't think bert would claim the way he did if he were scum.
I would like to think I'm clever enough to do so, but if that were the case, pitoli's post would be a fairly severe violation of neutrality. It would also be very odd that there would only be a single "weak" human that is confusingly attached to the miller status, yet with weak being in a fake-claim.
Bert is town because
-he seems very genuinely confused about the weak thing
-his posts read like a bewildered townie
-I don't think scum would get a weak fake-claim with only one other weak player
-Since scum have been given fake-claims, why would they be given "Weak Human Miller" of all things?
Yup, you are right. There's where pitoli messes up. Goddamnit
There could be other weak townies who just didn't claim?
If I had a strong PR attached to being weak, I wouldn't claim it b/c I'd have assumed that scum were informed what it was. Claiming weak basically says "shoot me in the N3-5 range."
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:31 pm
by BROseidon
In post 229, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:ActionDan, explain your reads. You pretty much just quoted a whole bunch of my posts with no explanation.
You're not gonna get anywhere with this, I don't think.
I get the sense that Dan plays like roflcopter.
God I hate learning how to play with positional players.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:34 pm
by BROseidon
In post 242, Kagami wrote:Similar reads + bias toward townreads rather than scumreads. The only thing I don't like about them is kaze as town; this doesn't really feel like town kaze.
Bad reason to town read someone.
I won Xenoblade b/c I buddied Nacho on his reads throughout the entire game, and then anticipated where he would go with reads so that I could explain things before he did.
If my assessment of Dan's play is right based on his first few posts, there are other things you can look for to get a solid read.
Town on Mykonian, null-town on Dan. Dan read is one that I'll check a lot as the game progresses, though, as I'll need more of a corpus of his posts to get a strong read.
I like the pressure on F-16. I'm on Pie right now (which everyone else seems completely disinterested in; and nobody else pointed out his misinterpreting my post/other people agreed with it, which is something I should go back and look at again). Also, Tammy's not here, which is concerning b/c she likes town a lot more than scum. Someone should probably put some pressure there right off the bat so we can get a good read there.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:43 pm
by Tammy
In post 276, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
BRO, I am not sure about yet. Need to re-read the meta to see if I agree with Pie. What are your thoughts on BRO?
Not sure yet. My only completed experience with him is always me as scum when he's town. But, the first couple of games had him replacing out and in Anything Goes he was in a hydra with Angry Pigeon and I'm not sure how much was Bro to know what to expect. But I did really like his response to Pie that he sucked reading Bro in Post 154. i realize that's kinda stupid, but it's one of my mafia weaknesses.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:45 pm
by Tammy
In post 281, BROseidon wrote:Also, Tammy's not here, which is concerning b/c she likes town a lot more than scum.
Hi! How ya doin?
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:45 pm
by Tammy
In post 273, BROseidon wrote:
2) Maybe; day talk seems like a pretty good balancing factor to ~8 1-shot commutes
In post 276, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
BRO, I am not sure about yet. Need to re-read the meta to see if I agree with Pie. What are your thoughts on BRO?
Not sure yet. My only completed experience with him is always me as scum when he's town. But, the first couple of games had him replacing out and in Anything Goes he was in a hydra with Angry Pigeon and I'm not sure how much was Bro to know what to expect. But I did really like his response to Pie that he sucked reading Bro in Post 154. i realize that's kinda stupid, but it's one of my mafia weaknesses.
Can't paraquote b/c MS is locking me out now :/
We had the hardboiled game together where I was shot N2 for being the tracker. That was town/town.
Also my posting style does meld a bit with my hydra partners, but I have a similar play style to AP by default (major difference is probably that he's bolder than I am, whereas I play things more by the book)
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:52 pm
by Tammy
I forgot that game.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:52 pm
by BROseidon
Eh, I don't think that positional play is intrinsically scummy. It's a different style of play.
The games I've had with roflcopter where we've been town/town have had us work really well together b/c I read him as town for how he moved. Also, I got to see some of his back end in Death's Diner b/c he posted it in the Cop-neighborhood QT, and his reasoning is very strong.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:53 pm
by BROseidon
Also Tammy why aren't you towning up the thread and organizing the townies yet?
In post 276, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
BRO, I am not sure about yet. Need to re-read the meta to see if I agree with Pie. What are your thoughts on BRO?
Not sure yet. My only completed experience with him is always me as scum when he's town. But, the first couple of games had him replacing out and in Anything Goes he was in a hydra with Angry Pigeon and I'm not sure how much was Bro to know what to expect. But I did really like his response to Pie that he sucked reading Bro in Post 154. i realize that's kinda stupid, but it's one of my mafia weaknesses.
I did like that as well as his insistence that he makes early pressure moves regardless of his alignment which I think came from a town mindset. I didn't like that he wasn't really addressing the core of Pie's arguments which was about the
quality
of the early pressure move rather than the move itself. It felt like he was side-stepping it either intentionally or accidentally so I am not completely positive that he is town.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:59 pm
by Tammy
In post 288, BROseidon wrote:Eh, I don't think that positional play is intrinsically scummy. It's a different style of play.
The games I've had with roflcopter where we've been town/town have had us work really well together b/c I read him as town for how he moved. Also, I got to see some of his back end in Death's Diner b/c he posted it in the Cop-neighborhood QT, and his reasoning is very strong.
I didn't say it is intrinsically scummy. I've been pretty decent at reading roflcopter in the past. And even with him you can see his thought process if you make him, and his reasoning when town is quite strong usually while when scum it's what?
But, the games I played with Dan last year, he was more thoughtful about his stances and play. You could see where he was coming from. His game lately has been kinda smug? in a sense and less transparent, which makes him harder to read.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:59 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
BRO, are you going to explain your townread on Dan or be like Dan himself?
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:01 pm
by Tammy
In post 289, BROseidon wrote:Also Tammy why aren't you towning up the thread and organizing the townies yet?
In post 288, BROseidon wrote:Eh, I don't think that positional play is intrinsically scummy. It's a different style of play.
The games I've had with roflcopter where we've been town/town have had us work really well together b/c I read him as town for how he moved. Also, I got to see some of his back end in Death's Diner b/c he posted it in the Cop-neighborhood QT, and his reasoning is very strong.
I didn't say it is intrinsically scummy. I've been pretty decent at reading roflcopter in the past. And even with him you can see his thought process if you make him, and his reasoning when town is quite strong usually while when scum it's what?
But, the games I played with Dan last year, he was more thoughtful about his stances and play. You could see where he was coming from. His game lately has been kinda smug? in a sense and less transparent, which makes him harder to read.
I've always had a hard time getting anything out of rofl.
And I don't think that Dan becoming more asshole-like makes him scum. Hell, I'm a huge dick in like 1/2 my games.
In post 288, BROseidon wrote:Eh, I don't think that positional play is intrinsically scummy. It's a different style of play.
The games I've had with roflcopter where we've been town/town have had us work really well together b/c I read him as town for how he moved. Also, I got to see some of his back end in Death's Diner b/c he posted it in the Cop-neighborhood QT, and his reasoning is very strong.
I didn't say it is intrinsically scummy. I've been pretty decent at reading roflcopter in the past. And even with him you can see his thought process if you make him, and his reasoning when town is quite strong usually while when scum it's what?
But, the games I played with Dan last year, he was more thoughtful about his stances and play. You could see where he was coming from. His game lately has been kinda smug? in a sense and less transparent, which makes him harder to read.
I've always had a hard time getting anything out of rofl.
And I don't think that Dan becoming more asshole-like makes him scum. Hell, I'm a huge dick in like 1/2 my games.
I'm kinda confused why you keep taking it to this. I'm saying when town, he used to be transparent as town or at least explain his stances and play. He's moved away from that which makes him harder to read.
Therefore, I don't have a read on him. I didn't call him scum. I'm baffled by him (and wish he'd return to his old style of play ftr)
Gut-driven, primarily. I like where he's started his trajectory for the game.
It's a weak read. Hence the qualifiers.
I don't like where he started his trajectory for the game or his lack of reasoning but I'll go through his recent games to see if he has similar tendencies.
In post 296, Tammy wrote:I'm kinda confused why you keep taking it to this. I'm saying when town, he used to be transparent as town or at least explain his stances and play. He's moved away from that which makes him harder to read.
Therefore, I don't have a read on him. I didn't call him scum. I'm baffled by him (and wish he'd return to his old style of play ftr)
Track the trajectory of his positions and see if the movement makes sense?
