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Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:40 am
by Kagami
Well, you're kind of right on point one. Both
214 and
204 imply that you two hadn't read the game much at all at that point, at least.
I don't see the motivation behind the sass there, given that I don't claim that a josh iso led to said vote. To my mind, the Josh's posts probably clear NS and juls (who was already town enough).
The beli vote is in part because of his non-acknowledgement of
28 and also for the defense in
124/
180, though I am concerned that josh answered attacks on him so readily, but ignored
33, not to mention the flimsy vote on me after voting geists.
p-edit: why would the vig claim? That was a vig shot and obviously a vig shot.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:43 am
by geists
Yes, why wouldn't the vig claim, Kagami? Afraid of having another confirmed town?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:44 am
by geists
In post 275, Kagami wrote:I don't see the motivation behind the sass there, given that I don't claim that a josh iso led to said vote. To my mind, the Josh's posts probably clear NS and juls (who was already town enough).
Defend this statement. In what way does Josh clear NS?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:44 am
by Kagami
or the kill-preventer?
Why do you want conf-innos before they are wagoned?
This is not role madness, mass-claim has significant negative utility.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:45 am
by Kagami
In post 30, Josh_B wrote:
WTF is that?
Seriously though, Bel was the first mod to accept my off site experience and allow me to sub in on JesusChristMafia. I wasn't going to play this game because I don't know what a peterman is, and I don't watch GoT or read Jane Austin novels. But, I saw that the game had been open for signups for a while, and Belisarius was in it, so I added my name to the list.
Except for JCM, I don't have any completed games on MS, so most mods have been rejecting me because of experience. So, that's the other part of why I'm playing. Empking accepted me, and I love to play the game.
I'll be at a disadvantage because I don't know much about the theme, but scum tells are scum tells, whether I know the theme or not.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:45 am
by geists
In post 273, Nobody Special wrote:
Is this something game-related that I need to understand, or irrelevant fluff that I can safely ignore?
Or to use a different metaphor, if ffery is the stand user, I'm the Stand.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:45 am
by Kagami
You believe that incredible flail was caused by pressure from his buddy?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:46 am
by Zephyrus
In post 268, Juls wrote:Leaning Scum
Nobody Special - Absolutely nothing out of him day 1. Lots of conversation but he just voted more-or-less for Josh. Felt like scum resigned to partner getting lynched.
Zephyrus - Didn't like his RVS. Has stuck in my head ever since. Didn't contribute much to day 1 and the hammer felt off. Plus playing the confusion-card so far today.
Vote: Zephyrus
So you believe I hammer my scum buddy? Ok...
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:48 am
by geists
In post 278, Kagami wrote:or the kill-preventer?
Why do you want conf-innos before they are wagoned?
This is not role madness, mass-claim has significant negative utility.
Because we have the advantage--scum are down a member and missed a kill. We have two confirmed towns right now in us and Who, and a strong townblock.
This game might not be role madness, but Empking's games always have something that makes them tick. Massclaim, I defend, does not have negative utility when the tempo advantage gained by confirmed innocents outweighs the scum benefit of picking their nightkills ESPECIALLY in an Empking game.
Also 273 is scumtell in my eyes.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:49 am
by geists
Zeph, look, I know you're both new and lynchbait but you really gotta try harder to make me think you're not a traitor.
In post 281, Kagami wrote:You believe that incredible flail was caused by pressure from his buddy?
I find it MORE likely, to be correct.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:51 am
by geists
Like I think your premise for clearing ns is built off an incredibly shaky interaction and is, at it's least menacing, hopelessly misguided.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:51 am
by Juls
I do. Who wasn't voting and I had just pointed that out. What better way to earn town points?
I am usually not a fan of mass-claiming and I really think a setup is weak if you can "break" it on Day 2. @geists - convince me why this is a good idea?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:55 am
by Kagami
I don't see how tempo matters at all; if anything, it devalues the mass-claim.
If there are 3 living scum, they might be willing to fake-counterclaim to get a lynch in if a PR is wagoned. When there are fewer, any counterclaim is almost certainly going to come from town. Why draw out the conf-innos before we get votes on them worth analyzing, especially when we know the prior setup had both NKs and vanilla-ization?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:57 am
by geists
In post 286, Juls wrote:I do. Who wasn't voting and I had just pointed that out. What better way to earn town points?
I am usually not a fan of mass-claiming and I really think a setup is weak if you can "break" it on Day 2. @geists - convince me why this is a good idea?
1. Site meta overall has dissuaded early massclaims for so long now that people don't actually account for it.
2. Read my last post. We have the advantage. Use it.
3. People are not cavalier enough with their power roles. The scum's best advantage is their superior setup knowledge, even the odds. Our primary investigative role is outed, as it stands.
4. When I say massclaim,
I'm right.
5. Go look at the SUPREME. I know what I'm talking about. This setup is likely to have some interesting parallels(see: gunsmith not being negative utility, likely vanillaizer on Who).
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:59 am
by geists
In post 287, Kagami wrote:If there are 3 living scum, they might be willing to fake-counterclaim to get a lynch in if a PR is wagoned. When there are fewer, any counterclaim is almost certainly going to come from town. Why draw out the conf-innos before we get votes on them worth analyzing, especially when we know the prior setup had both NKs and vanilla-ization?
What kind of bizarro logic is this, Kagami? Massclaim gets better the less scum there are simply due to the opportunity cost on something going wrong.
Why do we care about power roles, if last game proves anything they are unreliable!
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:00 am
by Juls
What is "the SUPREME". Sorry, I have been retired for awhile, I don't get or have forgotten some references.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:02 am
by Kagami
If you believe I'm scum and that scum vanilla-ized who, then don't you think I would have carefully checked the playerlist and zapped you instead?
Last game doesn't prove they're unreliable... it's true that roles changed, but inte and espeon both were vanilla'd because their roles were outed, and the town suffered for that, from a spectator's perspective.
What's the "opportunity cost of something going wrong?"
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:03 am
by geists
We're not going to have any more scum get investigated most likely, so the tangible benefits from hiding information is to protect against addition nks or getting off additional vig shots. Why do we care who, if anyone, scum shoot? Losing vigshots kinda sucks but meh, whoever's in charge clearly isn't using them well.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:04 am
by Kagami
I guess it's true that you guys probably wouldn't have doubted kaze if you weren't in probably lylo.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:04 am
by Kagami
I would have strongly considered shooting vezok.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
by geists
In post 293, Kagami wrote:I guess it's true that you guys probably wouldn't have doubted kaze if you weren't in probably lylo.
what?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:06 am
by Kagami
You guys didn't believe kaze-slot about the artefact, and even vigged him.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:06 am
by Kagami
I guess that was pre-lylo.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:07 am
by geists
In post 290, Juls wrote:What is "the SUPREME". Sorry, I have been retired for awhile, I don't get or have forgotten some references.
Such Unusual Pretermen Rarely Exist Maybe Evil (Too)
In post 291, Kagami wrote:If you believe I'm scum and that scum vanilla-ized who, then don't you think I would have carefully checked the playerlist and zapped you instead?
Last game doesn't prove they're unreliable... it's true that roles changed, but inte and espeon both were vanilla'd because their roles were outed, and the town suffered for that, from a spectator's perspective.
What's the "opportunity cost of something going wrong?"
Last game was lost on me taking the advice to scan instead of bulletproofing. And Espeon's role was strictly negative utility. But, yes, the only roles that were reliable was the monkfather last game.
The opportunity cost for scum of fucking up a massclaim with less players is larger, so they're claims are going to be safer and we get a more accurate picture of the setup.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:08 am
by geists
In post 296, Kagami wrote:You guys didn't believe kaze-slot about the artefact, and even vigged him.
I believed him to be scum outside of the artefact.