Mini 1621: Frog Mafia (KERO)

[Garmr]

I'm going to put boo kitty on my null scum list and then shift 2birds stoned to my village idiot list.

[Bookitty]

What's a little worse to me, though, is Prohawk's determined "I see my opening, by god I'm going to act!" posts. Mistaking that joke for a gambit requires some mental gymnastics I can't follow. I agree with 2birds1stone as well that gambits from Garmr (oooh, TM-ing that) appear all fine with Prohawk; something that wasn't even a gambit from GreyICE imo draws immediate ire and fire.

That's why, Prohawk. It's independent of GreyICE's alignment, though if he's scum, I don't think you would be. (I could be wrong.)

Garmr said he was trying to attract votes for deliberate scumminess in the first part of the game. GreyICE made a joke I'd seen many times before upon his entry into the game. Your reaction looked way over the top, i.e., forced, and I responded with a vote.

If you've seen people enter the game that way before as replacements, why did you have such a violent reaction to it this time? I got the feeling it's because you don't like GreyICE's playstyle; is that part of it?

[massive]

Some people (I won't mention any names) need to rely less on meta and rely more on in-game events. Just sayin'.

[Rumia x Cirno]

votecount 1.8

Garmr (3): 2birds1stone, GreyICE, Flubbernugget
WaffleGhost (3): Gendaberry, VictorDeAngelo, massive

2birds1stone (2): Jackel98, WaffleGhost
ProHawk (2): Feysal, Bookitty
Flubbernugget (1): Garmr
massive (1): Primate
GreyICE (1): ProHawk

Not voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 16, 19:15 GMT-7 or in: (expired on 2014-11-16 19:15:00)

[Primate]

The purpose of this is primarily a catchup post so I just break my duck and get posting again. Please ask me questions so I get more engaged quicker, if that's ok.

My view on meta: Meta's a reason to suspect and should be used, but it is *never* constructive to bring it up in a thread because it results in awful arguments. Always vote people and make cases for things they've actually done in the game, use things you've noticed in meta to give you hints as to who to focus on. Also they can be a really good thing for scum to do because it's not directly game related and if he gets lynched you have a ready set up excuse to put the blame on the dead player. But then a big argument about meta isn't really game related either. So just file this away as my view unless you generally want to ask me about my view for whatever reason.

I assumed Garmrs miller claim was legit, his second claim wasn't. People claim miller all the time early. Odd play.

Gendaberry's meta move on waffle is odd. Meta isn't normally a newbie goto, is it?

Garmr has a meta tell and isn't going to tell anyone what it is. Whoooooo.

@Feysal: Pretty sure I have a post mentioning caught for the wrong reason in MD from about seven years ago. I just have never heard it referred to as that, just like I had no idea what a chainsaw defence meant until well after that term was a common term.

Bookitty's playing like a good player.

Waffle's being reactive in early game then lurky. #135 is an interesting response. Combative actions to look more forceful feels scummy. #56 is fairly ballsy for an newer scum to make though.

I don't think Garmr's scum. He's throwing up chaff in a way I wouldn't see scum doing.

Not much to massive.

Gendaberry's scummy.

2b1s feels mildly scummy.

GreyIce's slot is good but townie.

Flubber and Jackel feel mildly town.

Null on Victor.

Feysal is Town I guess? Need longer to get a better read on the player.

[Primate]

Also, I reserve my right to change any reads in the above post as I get better ones.

@Prohawk: I get why you think GreyIce might make a post like that as scum, but I don't get why you think that makes him scum.

@Gendaberry:

Also massive, what do you think of Garmr and 2birds? You seem to have mostly stayed out of it.

Can you explain what your thinking was when you made this post?

@Jackel

Anyways, I think Garmr is town, surprisingly.

Why was it surprising that you would think this?

Unvote

btw.

[Primate]

@2b1s: You riding Garmr so hard is scummy. Not that you want his lynch, but it seems like you're hiding behind it. Maybe that's just laziness, you did get prodded. Hm.


@GreyIce:

It's interesting you post a wall of null reads with one weak town read in there.

It's interesting you wait so long to post that you're prodded, but as soon as someone questions your towniness you show up immediately to defend yourself. Like you're watching the thread but not posting.

Your original point makes sense, I don't think the second point is. Once he's broken his lurking duck and prodded it's going to be easier to post again because he's feels like he needs to or it'll start again.

Jackel has been downgraded from

Town

to

Null

[GreyICE]

@bookitty

Prohawk reading my of my gambit and grey ice i'm scum isn't hypocritical if you actually can look beneath the surface of things.

My play was designed to get things rolling something for everyone to talk about grease then wheels. Grey ice play offers nothing he doesn't intend to be helpful to the town in anyway. It's not really hard to see the basic difference if you think about it.

My goal is to offer the town dead scum.

A good way to do that is to find the person who is claiming that they were only acting scummy in order to see who would try to lynch them for being scummy, and they're not really scummy.



This shit needs to die. Fucking hell, this is lazy ass scum play. How are people town reading this?

[Primate]

GreyIce, that offers nothing and isn't helpful to the town in any way.

[GreyICE]

My vote is on scum.

I want scum lynched.

I believe the fact that his explanation for his behavior is so terrible that it was already being famously mocked like half a decade ago is quite relevant. It's not like what he's been describing has ever been classified as "useful" or "intelligent" so why is he doing it?

[Primate]

(That was a joke, I was quoting his comments about you.)

Also, I don't really get why he did it and yeah, it's pretty terrible, but I don't see why it's scummy unless you think he genuinely fucked up a miller claim. It puts eyes on him first thing, and I don't really get why scum would want to do that.

[2birds1stone]

@2b1s: You riding Garmr so hard is scummy. Not that you want his lynch, but it seems like you're hiding behind it. Maybe that's just laziness, you did get prodded. Hm.

It's laziness to a degree, but I do have something of a tendency towards tunnelling anyway.

I honestly don't have reads outside of Garmr and associated players, I really need to be right about this.

I haven't been prodded, btw, though I probably ought to have been.

[Primate]

Yeah, sure, I got the prod-dodge mixed in my head.

If it's ok, pick a couple of players (genuinely don't care which), have a go at reading them, and give me your thoughts. I don't think it's constructive for you to tunnel to the degree you have, even if you're town (and especially if Garmr gets lynched as town).

[Rumia x Cirno]

Gendaberry has requested replacement. Searching...

Feysal has been prodded.

[GreyICE]

(That was a joke, I was quoting his comments about you.)

Also, I don't really get why he did it and yeah, it's pretty terrible, but I don't see why it's scummy unless you think he genuinely fucked up a miller claim. It puts eyes on him first thing, and I don't really get why scum would want to do that.

Because I think he's lying. I think he was playing "oh I don't really care, everyone in this game is a moron, I can do what I want and not be lynched, lololol". Now he's getting pressured, and he's like "hah you morons are all morons! And you activated my trap card. Which caught... Flubber. For some reason or other, I'm clearly not following the thread, as has been repeatedly shown by my posts. Also you're all morons!"

[Feysal]

So here is the issue I had with this post. I too had a quick look at his past games, and the one observation that stood out to me was: Garmr is good at not being around at end game. The last six games he had been replaced.

I'm kind of disappointed, I thought you were going somewhere with this. I wanted to read your case so I could see if the thought process behind it made sense for town, but now I'm just puzzled. I have never lied about meta, my own or anyone else's, as town or scum, though I have been accused of it over different interpretations. Why did you think that Garmr's replacements would have been relevant?

By the way, the reason I disliked your first vote was not so much about who you voted as why you said you voted. I believe scum like to deal in absolutes more often than town, so phrases like "town never does this" or "I never saw scum do that" catch my attention. In mafia, the only rules without exceptions are those set by the mod. I realize it was during random voting phase, and you may not have been entirely serious, but still.

Anyway, I just wanted to get this out of the way, since I noticed something interesting as I was reading.

What defense?

How is asking questions not related to the game a defense in any way?

I know. This is the newbie defense, pretending to be less experienced than you are to get away with weak reads and low content.

Also what exactly does "lol" mean? A person I know added it to the end of a text about the holocaust?

Have any of you ever met someone online who would not know what "lol" means? I did not buy this, so I looked up Waffle's newbie games and found this:

LOL

to the warm fuzzies XD people are looking at me funny at this sleek dinner party:/

Would you clarify as to why my claim makes you raise an eyebrow? 0.o

It would appear that Waffle is not so clueless about Internet acronyms and emoticons as he tried to make us believe.

UNVOTE: ProHawk
VOTE: WaffleGhost

Preview edit: Seems I took too long writing this and got a prod. Oh well.

[Bookitty]

Meh. Hate being trolled.

VOTE: WaffleGhost

[Primate]

But his response of "If that's what you found scummy about my post and not the fact I claimed miller then I think we have a problem here." implies he thought the miller claim was scummy and did it anyway.

I don't really get his flubber vote either though.

-------------------

It's actually really weird that waffle would make a point of not knowing what lol means after using it like that. What a stupid, odd, and compelling point. I don't know what to make of it.

Seriously Waffle, explain yourself on that.

[GreyICE]

That's fucking bizarre.

Fucking bizarre is scum

Vote: WaffleGhost

I fucking hate sheeping meta shit, but that is too fucking bizarre to be town.

[Feysal]

That would be six votes, L-1.

[Rumia x Cirno]

votecount 1.9

WaffleGhost (6): Gendaberry, VictorDeAngelo, massive, Feysal, Bookitty, GreyICE

Garmr (2): 2birds1stone, Flubbernugget
2birds1stone (2): Jackel98, WaffleGhost
Flubbernugget (1): Garmr
GreyICE (1): ProHawk

Not voting (1): Primate

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 16, 19:15 GMT-7 or in: (expired on 2014-11-16 19:15:00)

[ProHawk]

@Prohawk: I get why you think GreyIce might make a post like that as scum, but I don't get why you think that makes him scum.

You ever play poker? He is bluffing. I am calling his bluff. He needs to die.

"Scum would NEVER do this, so I am going to do this as scum."

As an aside, you never commented on why I think you're scum, nor made any mention of my vote on you. Why is that?

[Flubbernugget]

Sooo I can think of a non "bizarre" reason Waffle would ask that lol question but I would like to see if that is his reason before I consider hammering.

[Flubbernugget]

So pro can we have an actual scumread on Grey and not some wifom bullshit

[ProHawk]

I'm kind of disappointed, I thought you were going somewhere with this. I wanted to read your case so I could see if the thought process behind it made sense for town, but now I'm just puzzled. I have never lied about meta, my own or anyone else's, as town or scum, though I have been accused of it over different interpretations. Why did you think that Garmr's replacements would have been relevant?

I'm sorry I disappointed you...

I thought you made up the whole Garmr thing, that's why it was relevant cause I couldn't find any games he actually made it to the end of. Turns out I was wrong.

Also, Waffle lying about not knowing what "lol" means makes no sense, unless he is newb-scum?

P-EDIT: THAT IS AN ACTUAL FREAKING SCUM READ AND I WILL TAKE IT TO MY GRAVE.