Newbie 1964 [Game Over]

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Gilded - you 100% agreed with my 83, which was a big part of my earlier game play, you largely agreed with Micc during your comments on his early play. What changed from your first post to your reads list where hes your top scum and I'm null only over him and Arkias?

[Karnage]

Gildedsun hasn't made me feel any better about that slot

[Karnage]

she's put more effort into criticizing her own slot than finding scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Want that question above answered before I weigh in on that slot.

[Micc]

So my understanding of guilded’s catchup is that I’m manipulative for trying to lead a lynch I believe in. But also that the points raised against her slot (many of which came from me) are valid enough that she’s in tough spot.

I’ll fully acknowledge having a strong voice and that I try to drive lynches I want. There’s like 2 days on the deadline. I feel like not driving lynches is anti-town. My challenge for guilded, and anyone who thinks I’m a valid lynch candidate here, is to explain why I have to be doing these things you don’t like as scum and not town. I think guilded in particular is likely to have landed on the former and not the latter because I’m being seen as the most viable counterwagon to lynching scum guilded.

[Heavy Anaconda]

You ARE manipulative. Look at the way you've accused Guilded.

1.) My challenge for guilded, and anyone who thinks I’m a valid lynch candidate here, is to explain why I have to be doing these things you don’t like as

scum and not town.

2.) I think guilded in particular is likely to have landed on the

former and not the latter

because I’m being seen as the most viable counterwagon to lynching scum guilded.

I separated these two sentences to show that they don't logic properly. You just reference one with the other to carry the premise Guilded is scum to your conclusion.

You conclude Guilded must be scum (the leading wagon) because you perceive yourself as the next best lynch. Which doesn't hold.

Guilded is "the former, not the latter" because she can't prove your scum?

Same trick you used against me the other day.

VOTE: micc

[Heavy Anaconda]

Now you are next in line. Heh

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Karnage - kinda curious as to why you haven't declared intent yet. You felt like the Jones slot was scummy and then Gikded hasn't done anything to redeem it, you dont have your vote on anyone and it's like 36 hours until deadline. What are you thinking right now?

Heavy doesnt seem to understand Micc's point, but I dont know if hes misinterpreting it in bad faith.

[Heavy Anaconda]

He says he ain't scummy for wanting to run up an AtE lynch to L1.
I don't think I'm wrong here.

[skitter30]

Vote Count 1.7

thegildedsun (4) ~

billy pilgrim, micc, gyro zeppeli, arkias

billy pilgrim (1) ~

bepwei

bepwei (1) ~

karnage

micc (1) ~

heavy anaconda

Not voting (2) ~

bbmolla, thegildedsun

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-15 09:00:00)

mod notes:

-

[Billy Pilgrim]

He asked everyone to explain why its scum indicative to explain why pushing a scumread to claim is scum indicative. He said he thinks that Guilded is scum reading him because Micc thinks that Guilded sees Micc as a viable counter-wagon. Based on how many people have expressed scumreads of Micc, I dont disagree with him here.

Also, there is much more scummy play from the Guilded/Jones slot than just the AtE.

Your intense assertion here makes me maybe think it is in bad faith. I'm really not sure here.

[Heavy Anaconda]

It's "scum indicative" simply because I disagreed with his scum read.
Just like your doing to me right now.

[Micc]

Billy's summary is an accurate representation of what I was trying to say in post 279. I'm not sure where the manipulation is?

I voted the jones/guilded slot way back in post 159. I refrained from giving reasoning for that vote until post 206, mostly to see what the reaction to my vote would be. But 206 shows pretty clearly that I have reasons for being on the wagon that are not based around Jones's AtE or the issues I see with how guilded replaced in. My issue around the Jones AtE is that people backed off because if it, and I didn't see that as a valid reason to back off what was a perfectly reasonable pressure wagon. My issue with how guilded replaced in is that I don't think her push on me is made in good faith. She called me manipulative for pushing her lynch while acknowledging there are actually some good points made against her slot. I don't think she's considered the possibility that I could be town pushing what I believe is a good lynch, and I think the reason she's landed there is that its a super convenient way to start a counterwagon on me.

Anaconda, if you disagree with my scum read on jones/guilded, then could you attack the case I made in 206. You keep coming back to the AtE and manipulation storylines when those are secondary to the stuff in 206.

[BBmolla]

Gildedsun hasn't made me feel any better about that slot

This is where I stand too ftr

intent to hammer, claim?

[BBmolla]

Intent to hammer, claim

just to make sure it's seen

[Billy Pilgrim]

Alright Gilded. Now someone's claimed intent to hammer. Now is the time that you claim as per site meta.

[TheGildedSun]

I'm Vanilla Townie, no special abilities.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Gilded - why is Gyro so high up in your town reads? Your bottom three reads were three of the people voting you. Why is Gyro different? Also, still waiting on a response to 275

Also, did Molla's intent to hammer change your read of him at all?

Karnage's dealing with the Gilded/Jones slot feels strange. Now that said, I think I felt the same way in the last game that I played with him when he replaced in and he was town, so I dont know that its AI. But I'd suggest that slot as one to target if theres an investigative.

[bepwei]

@Karnage - kinda curious as to why you haven't declared intent yet. You felt like the Jones slot was scummy and then Gikded hasn't done anything to redeem it, you dont have your vote on anyone and it's like 36 hours until deadline. What are you thinking right now?

Heavy doesnt seem to understand Micc's point, but I dont know if hes misinterpreting it in bad faith.

Wow, I’m not anybody? /s

Do you have rising suspicion of Karnage because of this? A few posts ago you were worried about me having suspicions of Karnage. If the Gilded slot flips red, will that change you opinion of Karnage?

[TheGildedSun]

@Gilded - why is Gyro so high up in your town reads? Your bottom three reads were three of the people voting you. Why is Gyro different? Also, still waiting on a response to 275

Answering about Gyro:
Something similar is happening in another game I am playing (not going to elaborate because not to talk about ongoing games) but basically I view a player who refuses to help town as themself town. It would be too obvious for them to be mafia, whether them a troll or not. Usually mafia plays to conceal themselves, be viewed as helpful, and to blend in with town. Sure, they might sheep/be quiet, but I don't think they would deliberately make decisions such as Gyro to stand out.

About Micc:
Honestly I'm not confident at all with who is town. I just have a gut feeling that someone who is taking a leading role in this game is mafia and that is why it is being thrown so heavily on my slot. I do full heartedly agree with why he was initially viewed as suspicious with the whole "sheeping" talk on BBmolla but I feel like scum is pulling the strings.

My playstyle is more so game solving/asking questions than finding scum, I'm not experienced enough to have a good enough skill to do so. In fact sometimes I am labeled suspicious because of my true neutral playstyle... Sorry if I'm not of much help. One of my setbacks is my fear of being wrong but I'm trying to overcome this.

[Karnage]

@Karnage - kinda curious as to why you haven't declared intent yet. You felt like the Jones slot was scummy and then Gikded hasn't done anything to redeem it, you dont have your vote on anyone and it's like 36 hours until deadline. What are you thinking right now?

I hadn't declared intent yet because I wasn't prepared to hammer. Also, my vote is on Bepwei.

I'm think scum is in arkias, bepwei, anaconda, and guilded but I'm not sure which ones. I don't see much to like out of any of them.

I'm ok with a guilded lynch after her claim. I think there's a decent chance they flip scum and if not, we are only out a VT.

[Karnage]

Do you have rising suspicion of Karnage because of this? A few posts ago you were worried about me having suspicions of Karnage.

If the Gilded slot flips red, will that change you opinion of Karnage

?

this make me think bepwei/guilded scum team. Setting me up for a mislynch when guilded flips scum. Its not the first time either: 239 was a response to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum

. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

[bepwei]

Do you have rising suspicion of Karnage because of this? A few posts ago you were worried about me having suspicions of Karnage.

If the Gilded slot flips red, will that change you opinion of Karnage

?

this make me think bepwei/guilded scum team. Setting me up for a mislynch when guilded flips scum. Its not the first time either: 239 was a response to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum

. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

[TheGildedSun]

Do you have rising suspicion of Karnage because of this? A few posts ago you were worried about me having suspicions of Karnage.

If the Gilded slot flips red, will that change you opinion of Karnage

?

this make me think bepwei/guilded scum team. Setting me up for a mislynch when guilded flips scum. Its not the first time either: 239 was a response to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum

. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

What about anaconda? If you truly believe I'll flip red, what is your opinion on anaconda's defense of me and the attack on Micc? Do you think they are a potential scum team with me or just a "misguided" townie?

[Billy Pilgrim]

It's "scum indicative" simply because I disagreed with his scum read.
Just like your doing to me right now.

Right, but as you can hopefully tell, I'm not scumreading you because I disagree with your scumread. At the moment you are in my need to be sorted category. My question was specifically targeted to finding out whether your misinterpretation was in good faith or bad faith.