Mini 2186: Pokemon Battles [GAME OVER]

[wellermanbob]

Why can't we reevaluate and find someone else

Why would we do that right now lmao? This is a great wagon.

[wellermanbob]

Like I get that I don't share much and that might frustrate some people but the points you are contesting or seeming to not understand are the obvious ones lmao.

[Infinity Zero]

VOTE: Infinity Zero

Lets try this

This vote feels a little oddly placed. We have all the early game nonsense going on and of all the slots weller decides to vote ours? It doesn't make sense why he singled us out and he never explains it.

Okay goodnight

Don't like the tone of this either.

Hi nancy, protocol is gamma emerald. Noraa isn't in this game. Why do you think you'll have difficulty reading me?

-Inf

Are you actually going to do anything with this information or are you just asking to fill the airwaves though?

That wasn't me asking the question but what's wrong with it? Maybe it'll just end up being noise but you can't tell if you don't ask (at least for that one). Though I do think it would be nice if Nancy defined why she thinks Infinity will be hard to sort, as well as possibly why she mistook me for Noraa.

Not liking bob perfume and vax but that list contains at most 1 scum due to

voting theory.

go on

I get the sense just ignoring Titus will be best for the game regardless of their alignment

This just seems overblown. In further posts weller takes issue with Titus' current approach, so why this comment that seems like he's writing her off for the entire game. In a certain sense it feels like he's discrediting her, which I think scum generally would be invested in doing with how she plays.

Do you think my reads are bad?

I think they're indistinguishable from throwing darts at a board at the moment because you've offered up reasoning that doesn't seem relevant AND you're publicly explaining them all which combines for a nasty distraction in my opinion

I can see how the reads seem like throwing darts, but I feel like it's a bit of a style thing with Titus where she tends to prefer those data-based reads (what with how she focuses on VCA aand doesn't like d1s). So it's pretty much the way she works that is being picked at. In addition it seems like OMGUS driven shade given him being in that suspect pool he responded to saying he'd ignore her, and 138 kinda affirms my sense that he reflexively shaded Titus there in response to her sussing him in particular.

I think smoke and mirrors and infinity something are the two most significant slots to place at the moment.

Which may or may not include purging with extreme passion

I think this post is disingenuous for two reasons. First, he suggests placing us and S&M quickly, but I don't really see anything actually

engaging

with our slots, all he's doing is pushing us with no reasoning set out at all for it. It's a shallow attempt to look like he's sorting but his words don't match his actions in any way. The second issue is his mention of purging us with "burning passion". That doesn't really harmonize with how he's pushed us, yes he's pushed us a lot but it feels like he doesn't really care about it, it's not his goal to push us. And if it's not his goal, then it's a step to some other goal, presumably pushing town and driving a scum agenda. To expand on how he doesn't have real passion in his push, in 144, his response to Vaxkiller voting us is just to pat Vax on the back for doing it. It doesn't read like he's really caring to put in a full try on pushing us.

I am explaining my reads

You're explaining reads but they are not useful because you are applying a book on draughts to a game of canasta

I'm pretty concerned with how weller is dealing with explaining reads. Further down in 208 he says he doesn't feel like explaining his reads makes it easier to track his thought process (or I presume that's what he was saying). Well, why? You have people like Titus and Chara who are actually explaining themselves pretty effectively, and people can actual engage and potentially agree on those explanations, which a) helps build trust since they can see where the other person is coming from (and even if they don't agree the thought process is still out there which can be determined as sensible or not), and b) if someone agrees on a scumread they'll vote with you. weller has been pushing us without giving any real logic, which can gain interest from some but rarely carries weight in actually limming someone. This could be a massive playstyle issue but weller isn't interested in putting up the needed effort to work with the town it seems, which as I'll get into later seems scummy in spots.

No I meant 96/97 whoops

weller keeps picking at that interaction as why we and S&M are scummy, but here's the thing, those posts didn't exist when he dropped his vote onto us. He's trying to retroactively justify his read, if there is a thing he saw before then it's impossible to tell because he's not explaining it, which is why explaining reads is so crucial.

There's evil afoot between Infinity and Smoke and Mirrors I can smell it.

Thar she blows

This doesn't look like a real thought. It seems like someone tried to draw a beautiful sunrise and just created a bunch of spots of color on a page, there's no emotional substance in how weller expresses himself here. With his previous assertion that he wanted to lim us with a burning passion, it seems like he's trying to fake a solving drive that doesn't exist.

I would argue the current gamestate is fine for town.

Why do you think it's bad?

The current gamestate is not very easy to form real reads in. With so many people doing their own nonsense thing, it's hard to actually engage with anyone and have it mean anything. So trying to move out of that makes it easier to form reads, which is pro-town. While I'd say progress has been made we're still not really anywhere near where we should be rn. weller's play has done nothing to really improve gamestate and kinda feels like he's exploiting it to an extent, with his lack of visible logic working into the inscrutable nonsense of the game.

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

This happens again later, but weller is kinda dodging explaining his own reads by asking a bunch of questions to deflect the point. As has been asserted multiple times, the intent was to sort weller's thought process vs. trying to interpret us. But it seems like weller can't really put out a logic for how he came to scumread us and so strongly, so he has to ask deflecting questions in order to put off the demands to explain himself.

I'm not calling a scumteam with no flips. Merely that those two players have pinged.

This does not click with him saying us and S&M are up to no good. Why are you saying things like that if you're not okay forming associative reads rn?

we are, which is why i conceded i got a read out of it, but getting information out of you is like pulling teeth, and it doesn't need to be that way. for example, it wasn't clear until just now that you weren't calling them teamed, because that is how it sounded to me.

Read infinity's ISO then and tell me what you think. I'll respond!

As I pointed out before, weller is dodging having to explain his read on us, this time by suggesting someone read us and give their own read, "and then he'll respond". This puts burden of proof on others so he can say "oh yeah that what I was thinking" without having to actually make to effort to find reasons himself. Again, he has no logic of his own because he rushed into a read as scum, so he now has to get others to find reasons that he can then call his own.

we are, which is why i conceded i got a read out of it, but getting information out of you is like pulling teeth, and it doesn't need to be that way. for example, it wasn't clear until just now that you weren't calling them teamed, because that is how it sounded to me.

Read infinity's ISO then and tell me what you think. I'll respond!

i think Infinity hasn't really towntold so far. they're asking a lot of questions and i haven't seen much direction from the slot, as well. i would have expected some follow up from the vote on me. my vote's still there, in any case.

Yeah largely agree. There's also the part where it took them a long time to figure out the correct way to approach me voting them/wanting them dead/being townread by other people

As called earlier, weller's response to chara was to claim he agrees.
Also, a question for weller: how new do you think we are to this game?

I've been ready to eliminate you. That's how the game works yaknow

Really? Because it's not evident at all that you have any real care towards getting us limmed from your posts.

-Protocol

[wellermanbob]

Oh man a case.

[wellermanbob]

Is this how y'all play here LOL is that the kinda thing you were looking for from me LOL

[Infinity Zero]

both sorta
it would help but something of that degree isn't what's needed from you, you just need to actually call out what you're seeing, where you're seeing it, and why

[Infinity Zero]

On this site people generally expect you to explain the reasons for reads when asked, unless there's a specific reason why you want to keep them hidden.

-Inf

[wellermanbob]

No that wasn't a coaching moment for you that was me in stunned silence that anyone thinks that's useful.

[Raya36]

Why can't we reevaluate and find someone else

Why would we do that right now lmao? This is a great wagon.

Give me a list of all the reasons why Infinity is scum or a good elimination

[Infinity Zero]

@bob You can believe whatever you want with regards to what is helpful when finding scum, but stubbornly sticking to your play when you play on a new site and not expecting to playstyle clash is not going to work out well for you.

-Inf

[Raya36]

Infinity town

[Infinity Zero]

Interesting, why

-Inf

[wellermanbob]

The lines are forming, always fun!

[Titus]

Y'all can T v T. Meanwhile Perfume has been dodging this thread since we got out of RVS.

[Raya36]

Interesting, why

-Inf

Scum arent that defensive and making a massive case about someone who's pushing them this early.

[jjh927]

Don't really like that vote from Red at all. (눈_눈)

Neither did Ali based on the votecount

I think the reaction from Bob is worse

[Mistyx]

Y'all can T v T. Meanwhile Perfume has been dodging this thread since we got out of RVS.

i will accept this read but i dislike the way it was presented

[Infinity Zero]

jjh, any other reads?

-Inf

[wellermanbob]

Y'all can T v T. Meanwhile Perfume has been dodging this thread since we got out of RVS.

I don't think this is TvT tbh? Like there's a brewing anti- bob sentiment in the thread which is, if you'll allow me the assumption of being correct on my scumread of Infinity, makes sense as the pieces start to fall together.

[wellermanbob]

Bob is a pretty cool dude though so

[jjh927]

jjh, any other reads?

-Inf

That implies those were reads which they weren't; I'm pretty null on both Red and Bob

Cat, Misty, Infinity all town
Leaning town on Titus and Chara
Nobody is particularly standing out as being more likely than average to flip scum at the moment

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hi nancy, protocol is gamma emerald. Noraa isn't in this game. Why do you think you'll have difficulty reading me?

-Inf

I probably won’t have that much trouble reading either of you, it’s just that I thought Noraa would be an easier read.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think smoke and mirrors and infinity something are the two most significant slots to place at the moment.

Which may or may not include purging with extreme passion

Do I know you?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

There's evil afoot between Infinity and Smoke and Mirrors I can smell it.

Thar she blows

Do you have issues with either of us? Why do you keep mentioning us together?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not calling a scumteam with no flips. Merely that those two players have pinged.

Are you actually going to bother to explain what I have done that qualifies as that?