Mafiascum.net

Morning Vote Count 1.02

Morning 1 will end in (expired on 2021-02-22 15:17:03)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to deliver to a player. If no one receives that many votes by deadline, plurality rules will apply.

Prism (2): sangres, Tammy
Spiffeh (2): Spiffeh, SirCakez
Battle Mage (1): Titus
SirCakez (1): MathBlade
Lady Lambdadelta (3): PookyTheMagicalBear, Battle Mage, Bell
sangres (2): Prism, quiet


Not voting (6): borkjerfkin, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, mastina, GreyICE, Dunnstral

Mod notes: borkjerfkin is V/LA
11/85 pages used
If Morning 1 ended now, the Artifact recipient would be Lady Lambdadelta

In post 252, Spiffeh wrote:Not sure what to think about Prism yet

MathBlade has been transparently town to me from jump and I'm not thrilled with there already seeming to be somewhat of a consensus scum read there

He's clearly not the most charismatic player itg (no offense!) and I feel that's being used to put him in the hot seat already and there is absolutely no scum motivation to start and maintain this back and forth with Prism so early on

+1 This is how I feel.

In post 272, Prism wrote:

In post 257, sangres wrote:

In post 153, Prism wrote:I'm on my phone so pretty limited, but the short of it is that sangres would make a bigger show of paranoia here, which hasn't happened yet. They also respect my towngame too much to fight on my behalf out of the gate like this, let alone give me the artifact. Hard town.

Playstyle it's nice to have diversity.

Not really digging this townread???

We're pushing you to get an artifact early and tbh I'm not even sure what that artifact does. We don't have to make a big show of paranoia because we can always go back out a townread.

Where's that respect for our scum games?

Ffery makes more of a show of uncertainty here, your response tackles positioning which is a completely separate issue and doesn't matter.

Neither of you are bad at the alignment but I am scared of neither of you.

I keep starting to reply to your initial point and this one and keep deleting it. My point only becomes relevant if I decide I think they're scum, so if that happens, I'll come back to this. Mostly just typing this to get the thought off my chest so I stop dwelling on the point.

Hey Titus, got something up your alley. Make a list of everyone who sussed me at the start don’t forget yourself. Who is scum there

Prism why vote me when you could vote yourself?

@Quiet:

In post 157, quiet wrote:and I don't think town!Prism is likely to be wrong here either.

Town-Prism was wrong about scum-ffery in our last game together. I'm somwhat perplexed by such a quick townread here, but the reasonings behind the read do make sense from how Prism processes the game to the extent I grok that.

I'm not sure he has my scum game figured out, though, given the basis of those reasonings.

In post 163, SirCakez wrote:

In post 151, sangres wrote:Elaborate?

He's been scum lately

What does that have to do with this game?

In post 167, Spiffeh wrote:I have some reads

One of them makes me sad

and?

In post 174, Dunnstral wrote:The townreads on Sangres feel weird

How so?

In post 183, Dunnstral wrote:Is there any reason for us to think the comb is a good artifact that does good things?

I see people claiming early townreads and trying to pass it off quickly.

I've been working my way through the series since learning about this game. Most of the artifacts can't be considered unmitigated good. They seem to do something you'd like, but at a cost. and some of them do really bad stuff. Lucretia Borgia's comb isn't the worst artifact in the warehouse by a long shot. How the comb's powers in the series get translated into a mafia game isn't obvious to me, and my takes on mechanics are often kinda simplistic. :/

The only purely good artifact I can think of offhand is maybe Gandhi's dhoti. (I'm about halfway through 4th season so there could be other purely good artifacts I haven't seen yet.)

I could speculate out loud about how Lucretia's comb might work in the game, but see the bit about simplistic takes.

In post 184, Kitty Trauma Team wrote:

In post 183, Dunnstral wrote:Is there any reason for us to think the comb is a good artifact that does good things?

I see people claiming early townreads and trying to pass it off quickly.

Objects have an ability and a downside. A downside implies an upside as well.

And the receiver can simply choose not to use it if they don't like it. Or to give it to someone else.

-k

I think the options are use it or pass it on to someone else, if I'm reading the mechanics part of the rules correctly. Holding on to it and not using it isn't an option.

Knowing what the actual upside and downside are should help though.

In post 203, Bell wrote:

In post 195, Tammy wrote:

In post 194, Bell wrote:#192: You called?

I was gonna day that’s like me and bell I think and that would get real boring, but I didn’t want to hurt your feelings if you were sensitive about it so I just chuckled to myself.

I'm sensitive about it, in that kind of, "why can't I lie good so that I don't ruin the game for others?" Guilt sense.
But that's about it.

Just off the top of my head.

Pooky, Dun, BM, LLD. Town.

Could be wrong on one or more.

Spiffeh and Math both kind of just reminding me of their scum game, but on the otherhand, they both appear incapable of rolling town in games I'm in so take that with a grain of salt or 10.

I'm meh on everyone else.

Tammy's a vibe read this game.

I like this post, kinda, though I'm a little insulted to be in your meh pile. At least I get a bit of a town vibe from you here.

I'm going to be playing more like Alter Ego this game because I get nervous about page limits, so factor that into how you read me. I won't be hyper-posting, and I will be saving a significant chunk of what I think of as sangres' post allocation for Nacho. I know some players won't hyperpost, but some of you have already chewed up more than what I'd think of as a calendar day's worth of posting in about 12 hours.

In post 204, MathBlade wrote:

In post 101, Prism wrote:I use art to cope

Furthermore if you’re claiming someone similar to Superman (intentionally vague) this claim doesn’t work as he literally couldn’t give his artifact away. It was stuck to him.

uhh. literally discus-ing a laptop into a black hole.

In post 205, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I have 0 knowledge of this show and what its about

i dont even know who the bad guys are

so im definitely town

In post 214, Kitty Trauma Team wrote:

Spoiler: “For Math”

H.G 4ever

<3 HG.

In post 261, Tammy wrote:

In post 252, Spiffeh wrote:Not sure what to think about Prism yet

MathBlade has been transparently town to me from jump and I'm not thrilled with there already seeming to be somewhat of a consensus scum read there

He's clearly not the most charismatic player itg (no offense!) and I feel that's being used to put him in the hot seat already and there is absolutely no scum motivation to start and maintain this back and forth with Prism so early on

I like the passion and I like the focus even if I don't agree with the direction. Had a minor quibble a bit back that I mentioned, but I don't think that matters overmuch. So, yeah I lean town there.

For Prism, right now I feel like the approach doesn't make sense from scum? That townread on Sangres aside, which I agree looks a bit odd, though I liked them having the town read, putting them null, then coming back to a townread, so I just ignored that bit of oddity. I think that while they'd probably be frustrated with Math's approach anyway that if they were scum, there'd be a kind of pointed interaction instead of just kinda ragey frustration if that makes sense?

I'm going to take this under advisement because Mathblade's approach to the game, particularly that bit about 1 but not 2 scum in prism/bork gave me a nasty case of hives. Maybe you can be the counter-balance to my tendencies wrt

In post 266, SirCakez wrote:I'm expecting a certain half of sangres to be extremely paranoid this game

Paranoia is the opposite side of the trust coin, and it's trust that's going to be hard to come by for a while. Without trust, there is less room for paranoia. This half is floating beneath the lake, contemplating who should receive my sword.

This was the perfect time for a sangres game, from my perspective. The sangres iconography and mythology sync with the flavor is beautimous.

Excalibur is an artifact, btw. And sangres is a Merovingian knight.





----------------

This reminds me a little bit of the midscummer night's dream mafia game that Cabd and I designed and ran (with invaluable advice from Vi) a couple years ago. Players got to select the dream that would be in effect from three choices each night, but didn't learn what a dream did until it was chosen (and in some cases, not until the next game day).

We have to make choices about who gets an artifact based on extremely incomplete info.

In post 268, Kitty Trauma Team wrote:

In post 265, SirCakez wrote:Ok what's your point here? This is such a dumb thing to nitpick.

My point is that I feel like you're making mountains out of emotional molehills by calling that a meltdown, and that's a real real strong alarm bell to me.

So again, I ask you, what part of that post you quoted do you call a meltdown? Two mildly peeved posts, if even that level of annoyance is hardly a meltdown, but that's the word you used.

-k

Why are we discussing the definition of a meltdown? Mathblade's emotions made him easier to read imo. Why care about the description?

VOTE: Prism

I think Tammy is town, so I am proxying her my vote.

In post 280, Titus wrote:Why are we discussing the definition of a meltdown? Mathblade's emotions made him easier to read imo. Why care about the description?

I agree with you on that, remember, reading emotions is how I read the game.

I'm asking why Cakez felt the need to use that word in particular. Meltdown makes it sound so much messier, more charged than what it was. I mean, it's not like I recently laid out exactly why I take a second look at players who do that or noted the very real fact that it has netted me scum on a shockingly accurate basis. I could be misapplying what amounts to a personal tell that only works when the target is me, but there's only one way to fine out.

So no, we're not nitpicking over a definition. I'm not even calling Cakez scum. But here's the thing: Attempting to paint another player as more angry or volatile than they are has serious scum equity. And so I want to know: why the word meltdown? And while we're at it, I want to know if Cakez thinks Math is scum or town. Many answers to these questions would be more than satisfactory to me, but I'll tell you one that isn't: "Why do you care?"

-k

VOTE: Kuribo

I wonder why Titus missed my question too?

Titus Cakez Pooky?

In post 283, MathBlade wrote:VOTE: Kuribo

I wonder why Titus missed my question too?

Titus Cakez Pooky?

Which post?

Maybe Prism too so scumTitus wants to give the artifact to Prism?

In post 278, MathBlade wrote:Hey Titus, got something up your alley. Make a list of everyone who sussed me at the start don’t forget yourself. Who is scum there

Here

In post 282, Kitty Trauma Team wrote:

In post 280, Titus wrote:Why are we discussing the definition of a meltdown? Mathblade's emotions made him easier to read imo. Why care about the description?

I agree with you on that, remember, reading emotions is how I read the game.

I'm asking why Cakez felt the need to use that word in particular. Meltdown makes it sound so much messier, more charged than what it was. I mean, it's not like I recently laid out exactly why I take a second look at players who do that or noted the very real fact that it has netted me scum on a shockingly accurate basis. I could be misapplying what amounts to a personal tell that only works when the target is me, but there's only one way to fine out.

So no, we're not nitpicking over a definition. I'm not even calling Cakez scum. But here's the thing: Attempting to paint another player as more angry or volatile than they are has serious scum equity. And so I want to know: why the word meltdown? And while we're at it, I want to know if Cakez thinks Math is scum or town. Many answers to these questions would be more than satisfactory to me, but I'll tell you one that isn't: "Why do you care?"

-k

This makes sense. Sorry for interrupting.

In post 286, MathBlade wrote:

In post 278, MathBlade wrote:Hey Titus, got something up your alley. Make a list of everyone who sussed me at the start don’t forget yourself. Who is scum there

Here

I am actually going to hold on this question. I want to see the thread flow to determine which people are scum. It's a question to answer on a reread after a day or two. I just have to do it.

In post 272, Prism wrote:Ffery makes more of a show of uncertainty here, your response tackles positioning which is a completely separate issue and doesn't matter.

Neither of you are bad at the alignment but I am scared of neither of you.

This tracks.

And Tammy, this is part of the reason I'd like to roll scum soon! So many people now only know my scum game as the husk of a mafia player that I became at the end of hiatus - not everyone knows the might of House (insert name of whatever the fuck house it was when we got snowstorm mislynched after he got a cop guilty on me). I hate that people only know me for my valleys - I want people to see what Peakcho is capable of.

In post 62, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:GAME SO EASY

MATH SCUM PRISM SCUM NACHO DUMB

HOW

In post 124, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:It sounded like Nacho, sue me.

ummmmm no

You know me better than that. I hope. I thought??????

In post 288, Titus wrote:

In post 286, MathBlade wrote:

In post 278, MathBlade wrote:Hey Titus, got something up your alley. Make a list of everyone who sussed me at the start don’t forget yourself. Who is scum there

Here

I am actually going to hold on this question. I want to see the thread flow to determine which people are scum. It's a question to answer on a reread after a day or two. I just have to do it.

Why are you assuming you get more than one day? You bemoan the fact you’re the N1 NK usually. What’s different?

In post 292, MathBlade wrote:

In post 288, Titus wrote:

In post 286, MathBlade wrote:

In post 278, MathBlade wrote:Hey Titus, got something up your alley. Make a list of everyone who sussed me at the start don’t forget yourself. Who is scum there

Here

I am actually going to hold on this question. I want to see the thread flow to determine which people are scum. It's a question to answer on a reread after a day or two. I just have to do it.

Why are you assuming you get more than one day? You bemoan the fact you’re the N1 NK usually. What’s different?

A) I haven't been the NK recently. B) I doubt I am in this playerlist C) Right now the question you ask hasn't matured yet. It's one of those things where you know scum are there but it's too early to know motivations of everyone. It's the same reason VCA takes time.

Okay you can go to null but I am still weary. That’s a good answer though.

In post 294, MathBlade wrote:Okay you can go to null but I am still weary. That’s a good answer though.

Prism, asking for a friend:

Is this what it looks like when someone makes a show of their paranoia?

Finally home so I can go more indepth.

First I want to preface this by saying I'm intentionally playing more abrasively. As mentioned before, diversity is nice and I'm tired of playing friends after Iceland.

Second, at the risk of echoing the Elo in Iceland, most players who have posted feel town (Least town players to me are MathBlade, LLD, Dunnstral, all of whom have plausible reason to react these ways as town though Math continues to be ???. Spiffeh's reaction to Math is A+++ content regardless of what he is). I guess I haven't really read much Cakez/Pooky either.

Now that I think about it quiet's opening post was pretty rough.

In post 264, Tammy wrote:Although my view of Prism as town doesn't really line up with that easy of a town read on nacho hrm.

So with your bit about the high expectations, you're incorporating reads from Undertale and a bit of Xenoblade and maybe Chara's Folly/2181-things like my demands of Nacho as Replica, and my high demands of Hectic, Chara, and catboi in Chara's Folly. I don't really have any expectations like those of any of the players at this table, and I think my last two games with Nacho reinforce why the bar is very low. Texturing reads realtime with the "Wait it's this play" is super basic and I wouldn't put stock into it.

My sangres read comes from ffery atm, who I've only really seen as scum. This read has nothing to do with her meeting a certain level of townplay, but everything to do with how I think she chooses to react to me making a power move mechanically, and what she thinks after Iceland. She's also dead wrong about how strong of a town player I am, but in her mind I'm a "scumhunting dynamo" and not someone who should be given a solid position to lead with. Hard town slot, easily.

To be blunt, it's not that anything about her tone or whatever is outside of her scumrange, or that her positioning is disadvantageous as scum. She's just wrong that she would do this as scum, because her mind in interacting with me would be completely elsewhere.

You mentioned something about how this isn't what you've seen of my scumgame, and you're right. I'm on record as valuing a high degree of flexibility in my scumgames, I categorize my scumplay focusing around eliminating any sort of risk and positioning very safely, and have yet to fakeclaim something besides VT .

But I'd would burn this tell in a heartbeat without question, my meta record exists to be abused, as quiet recently learned the hard way.

In post 242, borkjerfkin wrote:

In post 235, Prism wrote:Bork review the negative again and think, it's extremely useful as a counter to a certain role

I'm sorry if I'm being dense but I'm trying to think of the positive utility of what you're talking about other than "unable to get snowed by Cabd in the purple room this time"

There is a very niche but extremely powerful usage but I don't think it's that important to get on the same page about atm.

Now that I have more votes I'm down to swap back as sangres suggested

VOTE: Prism

In post 295, sangres wrote:

In post 294, MathBlade wrote:Okay you can go to null but I am still weary. That’s a good answer though.

Prism, asking for a friend:

Is this what it looks like when someone makes a show of their paranoia?

It's a bad post but I'm kicking the Math read down the road because I remembered the games I flipped scum against/with him and could feel my blood pressure rising on town's behalf. I also literally just don't want to give him another second of my time today.

As you alluded to, the "one of prism/bork" line was absolutely horrendous though

And why are you letting Bork off the hook without verifying Bork’s claim?

Hell I could claim I got your artifact (I would be lying but I could claim it)

For all we know Bork is ascetic and just said that.

The most recent posts confirm for me that I just instinctively hate virtually every post Nacho makes from an alignment perspective, think this is the 5th/6th game in a row. There was one game he convinced me he was town as Imperium but every single other game I wind up thinking "Wow that's a bad post" and scumreading him and I'm throwing in the towel.