Mini Theme 2244: 3d20 uRoll – Somewhere In New Jersey [End]

[Bingle]

Bingle, is there a mech break? Y/N?

Breaking strategy has already been outed and invalidated, but it did exist.

If the question is whether we could maybe break the setup based on roles, we'd have to massclaim to find out and without getting super into numbers which frankly I don't have time for atm I don't think it's likely enough to justify doing so.

Miller types and 3rd party statuses are the only things that should be claiming short of a full massclaim, which is literally throwing the game into the air and seeing what side lands on top.

what would a 3dr party be? Would that be jester sk cult or surviver?

Any of the above, although presumably SK wouldn’t play ball because they have no reason to.

[Bingle]

I don't think faking alignment dice is too hard, scum must be totally incompetent to unable do that, and if so, i think we should find them anyway.

Faking a town result would be trivial. Faking a 6, specifically, would not be. Hence: my revealing the entire strategy in one post making said strategy worse than useless.

Also, we should really stop saying what we used the fudge dice on because there are things to be read into from that.

[Quiet Owl]

Eh. Cult is the single person who is the greatest threat to the traditional scumteams,

If someone is obviously cult, we don't really need to deal with them on D1 as town because they are a bigger threat to groupscum than the townies are.

I have done some thinking and concluded that these are blatant lies.
The cult's strength is that they have a faster “turns til endgame” clock than any other faction.

FTFY. You know who really dislikes getting endgamed? Mafia. It’s kind of why when balancing multi ball the scum teams are treated as though they oppose each other. Cult leader has all of the potential power of a town player and the additional ability to win the game over scum’s head.

From a scum perspective, the biggest threats are, in order: Cult, other groups of scum, solo scum, town, neutral third parties. Neutral third parties, of course, balancing as a guaranteed miselimination.

Bud. If your only defence is to re-write what I said and then respond to that imaginary post, then you're doomed. Flattered that you'd write fanfiction about me though.

[Dwlee99]

Can we stop talking mech please

There is no alignment info you're gonna get from that unless scum decides to try to push something they don't actually believe would be optimal for town

[cyrus62]

Yes scum can make up rolls it's very sample but the fact they don't want to play along. Seems bad also yes if scum know who is town it scum won't cross kill.

[Dunnstral]

All scum have to do is lie about their alignment roll and claim their role and modifier truthfully.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

I wasnt asking to gauge whether you'd react the same way, just didn't think there was any guaranteed way to do it and was curious what you'd come up with. Doesnt sound like anything setup-breaking though, so my guess is its something similar to follow the cop which is risky to go forward with as it gets the investigative killed in the event there is no protective for them. Also in multiball any doctors should only be able to prevent one kill and it would be easy for a cop of any kind to get piled if they out as being an alignment cop without specifying which faction they can identify.

It looks like I'm not going to get my desired reaction, so I'm just going to go ahead and explain the strat. My desired reaction was in fact pushback against using the strategy on the basis of it being unfun, as scum would be unlikely to want to be seen as being antitown in order to preserve the fun of the game.

The way dice tags work, there's a static string of numbers generated that gives a permanent value to the tags. That way, if you quote the tags it gives a static response instead of rerolling the dice.

For example:

Original Roll String: 1d8 (STATIC)

1 8-Sided Dice: (7) = 7

Code: Select all

[dice]1d8 0101010101[/dice]

Will always give a value of 7.

If we forced everyone to claim their alignment roll and then provide a 10 digit code that resulted in that roll, it would take any normal scum player longer to fabricate the roll than it would take a town player to hunt down the static string from their actual roll.

This would not confirm anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, and in the case of people like me who know the way the dice tags work it would be trivial to set up a fake roll ahead of time. Paraphrasing the 10 digit code in a way that didn't use cryptography would be trivial. Additionally, it would not be OGI as it's simply applying a knowledge of the way the forum works.

Angleshooty as fuck? Yes. Ethically bankrupt? Yes. But actually against the rules? No.

Of course, giving all of this information at the beginning of the process makes the strategy worse than useless, because scum would know exactly how to provide a false positive result and PMing yourself a bunch of dice rolls to make sure you have a town result to use would take almost no time at all. But I never really wanted to generate townreads this way in the first place, just see how people responded to the idea that I could.

(For proof of concept that I would not actually use a strategy like this as town (and thus, as scum looking for towncred), see the Lovers and Losers game in my topics that I caused to get rerolled when a similar oversight gave AI information and I pointed it out.)

This is arguably cheating and I wouldn't have done this without double checking with the mod (who would likely say no)

[Loftwing]

It also would not have worked with players like me, who rolled all of their dice in one tag, since I would have no way to extract just the alignment role without resorting to scum measures.

[Bingle]

Bud. If your only defence is to re-write what I said and then respond to that imaginary post, then you're doomed. Flattered that you'd write fanfiction about me though.

Your original post was based on obviously wrong information. Cult isn’t scary to groupscum because they recruit people. Cult is scary to groupscum because they endgame groupscum faster than groupscum endgames cult.

Also, FTFY means fixed that for you.

Maybe, instead of shading me for “misrepresentation” that clearly wasn’t actually misrepresentation you could explain how you spent a day to arrive at the conclusion that cult leader isn’t a bigger threat to scum than individual townies.

Also, I’m just not going to bother replying to anyone else who asks questions about the strategy that explicitly said was against the spirit but not the letter of the rules and also doesn’t work any more because I invalidated it myself.

[Dunnstral]

How do you fellas differenciate cultists from mafia on day 1?

[Loftwing]

Cultists are pretty much going to act like town here. They have legitimately no incentive to not scumhunt. Cultists want the town to survive, and want to reduce other factions down so that they have multiple recruitment options.

Mafia want to stay aliveee, while also maybe scumhunting, but probably just hunting for town. Not just to reduce cult options to recruit, but also because that brings them a step closer to winning.

[Bingle]

ssbm_Kyouko
Dragon of the West
Save The Dragons

Dwlee99

Dunnstral
StrangeMatter
Enchant
RegRider
Mama Ru

cyrus62
Loftwing
Quiet Owl

This is roughly where I’m at.

[Bingle]

Mafia want to stay aliveee, while also maybe scumhunting, but probably just hunting for town.

Literally the opposite. Multi ball is hard specifically because scum can and should genuinely scumhunt which makes generating reliable townreads more difficult.

Hunting cult atp is generic scumhunting without the associative tells.

[Dwlee99]

ssbm_Kyouko
Dragon of the West
Save The Dragons

Dwlee99

Dunnstral
StrangeMatter
Enchant
RegRider
Mama Ru

cyrus62
Loftwing
Quiet Owl

This is roughly where I’m at.

What am I doing at the top here

[StrangeMatter]

HEAL: loft not that healing is part of this game but at this point I trust them more then most.

This is odd, why do you trust Loftwing?

[Loftwing]

ssbm_Kyouko
Dragon of the West
Save The Dragons

Dwlee99

Dunnstral
StrangeMatter
Enchant
RegRider
Mama Ru

cyrus62
Loftwing
Quiet Owl

This is roughly where I’m at.

Why do you rank Kyouko so high up?

[Loftwing]

Mafia want to stay aliveee, while also maybe scumhunting, but probably just hunting for town.

Literally the opposite. Multi ball is hard specifically because scum can and should genuinely scumhunt which makes generating reliable townreads more difficult.

Hunting cult atp is generic scumhunting without the associative tells.

The mafia need to strike a balance between genuinely scumhunting, and hunting for town, because they can never genuinely find their own teammates.

[Bingle]

What am I doing at the top here

I think you actively pushing against the thread getting derailed by irrelevant mechspeak makes you more likely town than the people who have done functionally nothing.

[Dwlee99]

What am I doing at the top here

I think you actively pushing against the thread getting derailed by irrelevant mechspeak makes you more likely town than the people who have done functionally nothing.

Nice

[Loftwing]

What am I doing at the top here

I think you actively pushing against the thread getting derailed by irrelevant mechspeak makes you more likely town than the people who have done functionally nothing.

This is.. interesting.

What irrelevant mechspeak could you be talking about?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Mama ru
ISO even more useless than mine

[cyrus62]

this is why i think me posting is hurting town. note bingel may have already found out my role so hes hoping to get me to out it. and i cant express this enough me outing my role hurts town and helps scum. so fucking lay off.

[cyrus62]

HEAL: loft not that healing is part of this game but at this point I trust them more then most.

This is odd, why do you trust Loftwing?

one of the few not actively trying to wagon me or to try to get a better idea about my role.

[Bingle]

Why do you rank Kyouko so high up?

Kyouko’s response to “I think loft was trying to dig for how to escape a potential strat” was to immediately ask about the strat. Additionally, 161, 166, and 226 all struck me as town motivated.

Mafia want to stay aliveee, while also maybe scumhunting, but probably just hunting for town.

Literally the opposite. Multi ball is hard specifically because scum can and should genuinely scumhunt which makes generating reliable townreads more difficult.

Hunting cult atp is generic scumhunting without the associative tells.

The mafia need to strike a balance between genuinely scumhunting, and hunting for town, because they can never genuinely find their own teammates.

They don’t have to genuinely find their own teammates. That’s the point. They can genuinely find other groups.

[Bingle]

What irrelevant mechspeak could you be talking about?

Basically everything about the strategy post the invalidation of the strategy. And yes, I’m aware that it is mostly my fault the discussion exists.