Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[GuiltyLion]

GL, why? Why do you think I'm scum? I don't even think Koba really believes what they're saying, but you do? Can you explain your read on me?

that sounds like horseshit. why shouldn't i townread you?

what do you think about roden's read on dwlee?

not sure what the "why" specifically is in response to, let me know if I missed something

I feel a vaguely scummy vibe from you overall HEM, I agree with Roden that you feel appeasing towards Koba, and I also think you've been mostly just taking a backseat gamestate wide to critique various townreads/scumreads without trying strongly to shape the game any which way, definitely not towards your own reads

I'm not saying you shouldn't townread me, I'd love it if everybody townread me, but when you say stuff like you're town-leaning me because I "actively tried to make me question his townness" (257) it feels fake/off. As town or scum I could make somebody question my towniness, it's not an especially alignment indicative thing. And your point on re-evaluating slightly on Dwlee is not bad, except I haven't moved my vote off of Dwlee so I don't know why you're putting stock into it when my actions don't support a definitive re-evaluation there.

I see where Roden's coming from with the idea that scum!Dwlee may have handled themself a bit better, but I generally don't think it's wise to townread people for not playing well enough as we would expect them to as scum, especially when it pertains to defensiveness around being accused.

[humaneatingmonkey]

idk but i remember you being really active during early game but im not seeing that from you right now

why is nk15 and marci TRs?

i think scum!GL is trying to pocket me right here.

p-edit: @Gamma

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also think you've been mostly just taking a backseat gamestate wide to critique various townreads/scumreads without trying strongly to shape the game any which way, definitely not towards your own reads

HUH

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm in a bit of a weird mood rn, I'll explain later
nk15 feels actually like he's trying to contribute, scum!nk15 I would expect to feel less like that
marci I think is just vibing town rn
I dunno about pocketing but I don't entirely grasp what GL's trying to say rn

[GuiltyLion]

i dont know if GuiltyLion is the type of scum who would back off a public scumread who is gaining steam after some behind-the-curtain assessment that it's just Dwlee's personality

unless both are partnered, maybe

like.. idk if its scum indicative for him.. ive seen him rethink and doubt his reads before like that

rethink and doubt reads as scum? i'm saying is i don't know if he's that type of scum player. meaning, he could be town with the exception that he is capable of doing internal rethinks as scum or he's partnered with dwlee

Why? I'm leaning into GL town because of the behind-the-scenes read change for a wagon that's gaining steam (isn't it counterproductive to do that as scum?) but it's not really hard to do as scum and can be tactical if Dwlee is a partner. Plus, when prompted, he actively tried to make me question his townness (another counterproductive thing to do as scum, yet might also be done to pocket me)

Looking for other perspective on GL before closing my read there.

you've also implied several times that I might be partnered with Dwlee, and I don't think that makes a lot of sense as a natural thought. while I could buy an idea that it'd be advantageous for me to start giving myself an offramp, the odds of us being scum together are generally so low that I don't know why you think the Dwlee-GL interaction is specifically more likely "either T!GL or S-S" rather than me just being plain ol town or scum with or without Dwlee. like why wouldn't I do that kinda "re-evaluation" as scum on a town!Dwlee?

(as an aside, this is funny because the last time I was scum (the white flag game Gamma referenced), I wasn't aligned with Dwlee yet people were accusing us of being partners there as well and I tried to lean into that in case I got flipped)

[humaneatingmonkey]

marci I think is just vibing town rn

i understand this. voting Meuh out of nowhere seems tactless as scum.

[GuiltyLion]

i think scum!GL is trying to pocket me right here.

?
why would I need to pocket you and what am I doing to pocket you? how is not liking you defending me and calling you scummy an attempt to pocket?

[GuiltyLion]

I dunno about pocketing but I don't entirely grasp what GL's trying to say rn

which part, ask me if I am confusing you

[humaneatingmonkey]

GL, you've called me scum multiple times now but i dont see any votes. you've parked your vote on Dwlee for "not having any townvibes yet" but you've been scumreading me this whole time?

[humaneatingmonkey]

how is not liking you defending me and calling you scummy an attempt to pocket?

so i can townread you duh

[GuiltyLion]

I also think you've been mostly just taking a backseat gamestate wide to critique various townreads/scumreads without trying strongly to shape the game any which way, definitely not towards your own reads

HUH

who are you voting/championing to wagon right now? you can't claim to be shaping the game if you're not even voting

I'm not voting you cause a) Dwlee is a bigger wagon and b) I kinda want to see what they make of everything when they get back before deciding if I want to defuse any pressure there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm building a townblock

[humaneatingmonkey]

you cant seriously think dwlee wakes up and become instantly pressured by the votes in his wagon. do you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

why dont you vote me instead and push me if you really think im scum. let's see how you can sustain that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I dunno about pocketing but I don't entirely grasp what GL's trying to say rn

which part, ask me if I am confusing you

my brain is not operating at full capacity rn
if I'm still confused once I'm at full function I'll ask, but I won't bother you rn

[GuiltyLion]

you cant seriously think dwlee wakes up and become instantly pressured by the votes in his wagon. do you?

why dont you vote me instead and push me if you really think im scum. let's see how you can sustain that.

3 votes are more pressure than 2. and there's no telling what will happen if they come back, make a scummy post and people point out that it's scummy, then Dwlee might pick up even more votes

I'm not vibing with the attempt to control my vote here, all this is doing is making me feel like you want me to move my vote off of Dwlee. I'll push you if and when I see fit

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[GuiltyLion]

Why? I'm leaning into GL town because of the behind-the-scenes read change for a wagon that's gaining steam (isn't it counterproductive to do that as scum?) but it's not really hard to do as scum and can be tactical if Dwlee is a partner. Plus, when prompted, he actively tried to make me question his townness (another counterproductive thing to do as scum, yet might also be done to pocket me)

alright so revisiting this,

now

do you agree with me that none of this stuff was indicative in the way that you claimed to think it was?

am I correct in my understanding that the situation here is:

HEM: "I TR GL for [x] and [y] reasons"
GL: "I don't like HEM TRing me for those reasons, they don't feel natural to me nor are they all that AI"
HEM: "wait, so you scumread me? despite me townreading you?"
GL: "yeah, your reasoning feels fake to me"
HEM: VOTE:

cause uh, to me that means either a) you changed your mind to agree with me simultaneously while developing a scumread on me, or b) you never really believed in them in the first place? which is it?

[GuiltyLion]

I also still fail to see how my play with regard to you specifically here meets any reasonable template of "pocketing" you, unless you somehow believe that I happen to preemptively know what you look for in town and am specifically trying to emulate it

and even then, don't see why scum!me would go out of my way to pocket you

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee and GL are suspects

his insistence that there has to be scum in a hood skeeved me really badly.

let's do GL

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM: "I TR GL for [x] and [y] reasons"
GL: "I don't like HEM TRing me for those reasons, they don't feel natural to me nor are they all that AI"
HEM: "wait, so you scumread me? despite me townreading you?"
GL: "yeah, your reasoning feels fake to me"
HEM: VOTE:

oh you reframed the conversation to fit your agenda. +scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll push you if and when I see fit

so null Dwlee > scum HEM because Dwlee is more likely to be wagoned gotcha

[GuiltyLion]

and, whatever your alignment is, you're also committing the mafia fallacy of finding reasons to scumread the player who is putting forth a ton of content into the thread, over the player who made a handful of scummy posts and since hasn't posted

I am

frequently

mistakenly scumread. Do you think, right now between both of our ISOs, the odds that I am scum are higher than the odds that Dwlee is scum?

[GuiltyLion]

HEM: "I TR GL for [x] and [y] reasons"
GL: "I don't like HEM TRing me for those reasons, they don't feel natural to me nor are they all that AI"
HEM: "wait, so you scumread me? despite me townreading you?"
GL: "yeah, your reasoning feels fake to me"
HEM: VOTE:

oh you reframed the conversation to fit your agenda. +scum

care to point out what I'm reframing? I can cite specific posts for each of these.

[GuiltyLion]

I'll push you if and when I see fit

so null Dwlee > scum HEM because Dwlee is more likely to be wagoned gotcha

yep. I'm still very interested in sorting Dwlee