Mars 3 - Weasel Mafia -GAME OVER

[destructor]

bump

[Skruffs]

I knew this game was out there, had forgotten about it.

Destructor did not hammer, so I will counter vote.

Vote: The Silent Speaker

You are acussing me of

You are accusing me of trying to entice Destructor to vote you

Wrong again. I'm accusing you of hypocrisy -- claiming that my nonvote is "enticement" when you are doing PRECISELY THE SAME THING.

Actually, you are completely incorrect, and I think Destructor, when he reads the rest of hte sentence that you trimmed your quote from, will see that.
You enticed Foolster to hammer Oman yesterday, saying that you didn't need to vote, and implying indirectly that my vote was also unnecessary. I attacked Oman for what I saw was a weak role claim, and you attacked me for 'giving him outs' in his role claim, without actually commenting on his role claim yourself. Your intentions were not to find out what Oman was, so much as it was designed to go with the idea that me and Oman were partners. Again, you didn't vote Oman, because you wanted to keep your hands clean by convincing Foolster that there was a two-partner team still alive.

Remember also that you said that I was simply not the mafia who killed, the night that Gorrad (A jail keeper) died. Gorrad was the strongest power role in the game and thus likely to be the one killed by the mafia. Having the ability to roleblock and to protect, he would therefore be better served trying to prevent himself from dying. He was the most suspicious of me; it stands to reason that he targetted me the night he was killed. Your initial response to this was that I must be in a two man team, and my partner did the killing. That means that you ceded that Gorrad most likely DID target me; but because you thought I would be easily lynched (as Glork did before you) you had to tie me to someone else. Again, this is where Oman came in.

I can't prove that Gorrad roleblocked me, as it is possible he may have tried to protect Foolster, instead. However, I think that although Foolster was mostly considered town, Gorrad KNEW he was both town AND more important than Foolster, who doesn't have a very good track record.

So no, I'm not cleared because of the presumed RBing by Gorrad, but it is much more likely that he roleblocked me than you; and only one of us can be the person who shot him.


Let's put that aside and look at non-wifom-accusable things.
Glork (in his waning days)'s major attack on me was two pronged:
A) I believe he attacked me of trying to defend Undo, although, as I have said repeatedly, I defended Undo after he had received the number of votes necessary for his l ynch, and before that was public knowledge. Therefore he was acussing me of intentionally tying myself to scum after it became a known (to the mafia, which is what I would have to be to be scum) that he was abou to be revealed as mafia. I guess I should be honored, or embarassed, that Glork 'legitamately' thinks my playstyle is that good or bad that I would do something like that, basically taking my already weak rep in the game and stomping on it. I am trying to figure out why Glork, as town, would think that a scum with inside information about Undo, would do something like that. The only answer is that, knowing what I Did about Undo, defending him like that might be the best way to prove I'm NOT affiliated with him. However, also consider Glork's other actions:

= Directing a Vig
= Following other player's suspicions
= Soft claiming a power role and then claiming to be doc-protected
= Using the soft claim to fish for information from more than one player
= Absolutely ignoring every known scum in the game, until after they have died, and then using other player's interactions against them


Those aside (and we can get into detail if you want, but reading his posts in isolation will pretty much confirm he was basically 'floating' and wedging sticks in pro-town players bicycle wheels) there comes TSS's role:

Astronaut Weasel.

I name a player every other night and they can't be lynched the next day.

Night 1: MOS
Night 3: Thok
Night 5: Foolster
Night 7: Foolster
Night 9: Foolster

Thok claimed a result on me Night One. He mistakenly called it "N0" (there was no N0), but here it is:

Glork left his house N0. Nobody else came to Glork's house N0.

Keep in mind that Yosarian2 has publicly admitted that he 'botched' the days in the last end-of-day vote count, and then also keep in mind that Glork voted MoS day one, in an attempt ot lynch him. Balance this, though, with TSS saying that he wasn't quoting the mod - that he thinks of the first night as n1 regardless of what the mod said. This means of course that he was no using the mod's reference in the role PM he was sent with his night actions - or else he would not have needed to assume - and was in fact making up a fake list of night actions.


Now look at Undo: Undo was on the Thanatos wagon for most of hte game. At the end of hte game, he made a very large analysis of players, in which he buddied up to me and completely ignored Glork. After that, he prodded me several times abou twhy I was not voting Oman anymore, or rather, if I was still suspicious of him.

Keep in mind that Glork was also heavily on the Thanatos wagon.

Also keep in mind that Although Glork repeatedly said that Zoneace was scum, and voted him several times, he never actually constructed a case against him.


And then again, yesterday, TSS said that he could not be scum because if he was I would have been quicklynched for the win yesterday. It was pointed out that he could only have won, if there were two scum left. He then said that there therefore had to be two scum left (gorrad said so!) and that it was most likely me and Gorrad. This was the day (or two) after Glork had said that the two scum who were left, were KoC and me. Etc... etc... etc...

[Skruffs]

And... I'd like to point out (and this is in jest) that Glork is always scum if he is alive after day two. ^.^
I have proof of that.

[the silent speaker]

Sorry, destructor, I meant to post and say I haven't forgotten about you but I have a couple of things piling up around now.

Skruffs's post is a sad rehash of old WIFOM and worse arguments still. The bizarre argument that my reference to the first night as Night 1 means I must be faking the role claim is a small sample. Also he is continuing to rely on Gorrad's death as if it proves anything. To reiterate utilizing monosyllables: HE THOUGHT THERE WERE TWO SCUM. THAT MEANS HALF ODDS HE PICKED YOU AND HALF ODDS HE PICKED HIS GUESSED SCUM PAL FOR YOU. IF IT WOUND UP AS THAT LAST ONE, THEN HE GUESSED WRONG AND DIED. And that's assuming he

didn't

decide to use his power to protect Foolster, which he might have done, we don't know.
[quote] He then said that there therefore had to be two scum left (gorrad said so!) and that it was most likely me and Gorrad. [Edit:You mean Oman, yes?][quote]
A filthy lie. There was not the slightest bit of causation between my thinking there were two scum left and the fact that a quicklynch was only an immediate win if there were.
The rest of Skruffs's post is shot through with similar holes. Skruffs wants me to die, and doesn't greatly care how by hook or by crook he gets there. Don't fall for it.

Since you mentioned Undo's late bandwagon: Chew on this. I cast the eventual hammering vote on Undo. If scum, I would presumably have known that my vote was the hammer. Undo wasn't going to vote himself, and you had announced that you were not going to vote Undo, and everyone else already had. If I don't vote, Undo doesn't die. Is it really your contention that, as basically my first act in the game,

before having even read the thread,

I hammered my scum buddy leaving me to go solo when the only reason for him to die was if I hammer him? Does that make even a little bit of sense?

As a half-assed suggestion for your question, destructor, and mind you this is only a first impression, it looked like Thanatos was getting his first taste of pressure right around the time the bandwagon shifted to Disciple Slayer, so conceivably he thought if that wagon got going and he wasn't on it early, the accusations on him would be brought back tenfold. (Some admittedly tepid support: "since you're not in danger, and if I do it later, Oman will crap himself" -- Thanatos's reasoning or the vote. Not exactly encouraging as a sign of independent thought finding DS scummy; this reads much more like a vote for the vote's sake.) Whereas Glork voted late when the game was stagnating, and there's nothing scum like more than stagnant days, because the town is wasting its best resource during them. Insted he tried to jump-start it again with a vote -- even though, and he said as much, he wasn't terribly impressed by the lynch, because a moving day is better than a nonmoving day, and a lynch is better than none. He was rewarded by the lynch being scum, whereas Thanatos's post reads like he was punished for for his vote that way. The pattern holds that Glork voted when superficially it looks like he didn't have to bus, while Thanatos looks superficially like a bus was more necessary from him.

Note also that Skruffs made no answer or even acknowledgement that you asked him a question.

[Skruffs]

This is the reason I have qualms with your claim. You claim to only be able to use your ability, every other night. However, Yosarian2 screwed up the schedule and skipped a day/night phase. Here are his actual lynch/morning scenes stargint from the end of Night 6 until the beginning of Day 8. There should be five: Morning 6, Evening 7, Day 7, Night 8, Day 8. There are three.

Look for yourself.

Another day, another empty cubical. Hmmm...it's almost starting to seem like this is a pattern.

Found in the street behind Salvation, Inc headquarters, Bookity (Headcount Weasel, Vanillia townie) was found dead, due to a blunt injury to the back of the head. Police have confirmed that the murder weapon appears to be a large paperweight, that Bookitty aparently was given by Salvation, Inc. when she had worked there for 25 years.

Bookity (Headcount Weasel, Vanillia townie) is dead. Day 6. 8 alive, 4 to lynch

His next post was:

Final Vote Count:

4 Drunken Piper (Foolster, Undo, Gorrad)
1 Skruffs (Glork)
1 Glork (Skruffs)
1. Oman (destructor)
1. Foolster (Drunken Piper)

Drunken Piper, Headcount Weasel (Vanillia Townie) has been lynched.

Get all night choices in ASAP, please. Tentitive night deadline of 72 hours, but night might last longer then that, depending on how the replacement search goes.

He did not label it, but it should have been Night 7, as the day/night systems have been starting with Night 1, then Night 2, etc.

His next post:

The night passed quietly, no deaths.

IT IS DAY 8. With 7 alive, 4 votes are needed to lynch.

He skipped entirely over Day 7 and Night 8, and went to Day 8, or had night 7, but then skipped Day 7 and Night 8, and went to Day 8.
REGARDLESS! You are claiming to have used your actions TWO NIGHTS in a ROW, which is IMPOSSIBLE according to your claim.

Astronaut Weasel.

I name a player every other night and they can't be lynched the next day.

Night 1: MOS
Night 3: Thok
Night 5: Foolster
Night 7: Foolster
Night 9: Foolster

Now That missing night should have been a night 7, which would have been legit, but you would also have known that Night 9 was the exact next night after night 7. However, you never posted to the thread about Yosarian2's mistake (you, at hte very least, should have noticed), and you didn't even seem to notice that there even WAS a mistake. Considering that night wasn't labelled, that means you either cheated, or you don't actually have the role restriction you claim.

So... yes, lynch all liars, scum and all that. Nice try.

[Skruffs]

Why was Glork bussing: Glork realized it was Day 1 and that voting a player who was already self destructing could actually be beneficial, as it A) makes him look townie (without actually having to act townie) and B) he's getting away with defending his buddy earlier by 'changing his mind' without actually coming to the conclusion that the person is scum. Plus, he's a cocky mofo and he most likely knew he would do better by himself than with DS.

[destructor]

I'm going to dedicate my ms time later tonight to this game. I might even vote!

[destructor]

tss, why do you think Glork voted MoS when he'd targeted him Night 1?

Skruffs, your defence for your actions around undo's lynch doesn't sit right with me. You argue that he was already 'lynched' so you had no reason to test the claim further. The questions you still haven't answered is

why

you believed the claim in the first place. Why you were so opposed to testing it? If undo was town he wouldn't have been lynched. If he was lying scum, we would have found out.

And this post doesn't make sense:

He said he was unlynchable. There were 7 alive with, if I remember correctly, suspicions that there were maybe 3 mafiates left. Lynching an unlynchable townie would mean losing the game if he was telling the truth. If he was not telling the truth, he would HAVE to be NK'd that night because he would be considered cleared otherwise. So yes, from what I saw, and I kind of based my opinion on it on that last page (I was suspicious of Undo earlier in the game), wasting a lynch on someone who was claiming to be unlynchable was a very stupuid mistake that I was not going to endorcse.

How the hell do you lynch an unlynchable townie? You were mischaracterising the event.

No one

was trying to lynch an unlynchable townie, since that's impossible. The extra votes were on him to test his claim.

I didn't pick up on this before, but this:

Going into LYLO saying someone is scum with no reason (And not even voting but rather trying to entice Destructor to vote me so you can quick hammer) strikes me as scummier even than destructor's voting while lack of claiming.

... does look like you were already thinking that I was town.

Today is no different - rahter than doing analysis, you are filling your posts with emotive texts, using biased, non-fact-based opinions in an attempt not to FIND scum but to CONVINE others of scum.

tss, your play

is

actually giving me this impression. I'm finding its "of course you would, scum" tone unconvincing. I don't agree with everything Skruffs has been saying but he's not as plainly scummy as you're obviously trying to make him out to be.

You are accusing me of trying to entice Destructor to vote you

Wrong again. I'm accusing you of hypocrisy -- claiming that my nonvote is "enticement" when you are doing PRECISELY THE SAME THING.

This is sounding disingenuous. Skruffs was referring to your comment that he was obvscum and that he needed to be lynched. His approach today and yours have been significantly different. Where you have only ever looked at Skruffs, he has been, or at least appeared to be, investigating both of us.

Since you mentioned Undo's late bandwagon: Chew on this. I cast the eventual hammering vote on Undo. If scum, I would presumably have known that my vote was the hammer. Undo wasn't going to vote himself, and you had announced that you were not going to vote Undo, and everyone else already had. If I don't vote, Undo doesn't die. Is it really your contention that, as basically my first act in the game, before having even read the thread, I hammered my scum buddy leaving me to go solo when the only reason for him to die was if I hammer him? Does that make even a little bit of sense?

By the reasoning you yourself gave when you voted him, yes it does:

Reading the game, I feel like scum were dancing around Thanatos a lot. undo made a case on him and Glork seemed to buddy up to him. undo even linked Glork to Thanatos while pushing Thanatos' lynch and being relatively lenient towards Glork.

Glork

...

Issue #3 (page 8) – He seems to be defending Thanatos, who is a potential mafia member. He does the same page 10. There seems to be a connection between Glork and Thanatos, because I’m not seeing Glork defending anyone else.

Issue #4 (page 22) – He seems again to be defending Thanatos, one of the scummiest players at the time. FoS still stands.

...

Thanatos

Issue #1 (page 7) – “Ok, I don't really have the energy to siv through this, so I'll just ask if anything worthy of Debate has happened in the last page and a half or so.” Common scumtell, but he can be just lazy.

Issue #2 (page 7) – He is the third voter on Quagmire. Increasingly suspicious.

FoS: Thanatos

Issue #3 (page 10) – He is the third voter on Gage.

Issue #4 (page 11) – He seems to be afraid that someone thinks he is considering Drunken Piper scum.

Issue #5 (page 12) – He gets involved in a confrontation with ZONEACE, a potential scum candidate. Distancing?

Issue #6 (page 18) – He is the third voter on MoS!!

Huge FoS: Thanatos

!

This was how undo finished that post:

Conclusion – Top Suspects (most to least)

Thanatos, closely followed by
Glork
ZONEACE
Oman
Gorrad

Therefore,

Vote: Thanatos

tss, is there a reason undo would have bussed Thanatos here? And why Thanatos and not Zoneace or DS?

[destructor]

EBWOP:

Since you mentioned Undo's late bandwagon: Chew on this. I cast the eventual hammering vote on Undo. If scum, I would presumably have known that my vote was the hammer. Undo wasn't going to vote himself, and you had announced that you were not going to vote Undo, and everyone else already had. If I don't vote, Undo doesn't die. Is it really your contention that, as basically my first act in the game, before having even read the thread, I hammered my scum buddy leaving me to go solo when the only reason for him to die was if I hammer him? Does that make even a little bit of sense?

By the reasoning you yourself gave when you voted him, yes it does:

I was meant to post this quote after this:[quote"tss"]... if he's telling the truth, no harm no foul.[/quote]

[destructor]

DAMMIT
Screwed the quote tag up.

... if he's telling the truth, no harm no foul.

[the silent speaker]

I'm not sure I follow you. If I were scum, I'd know that he

wasn't

telling the truth, and therefore that my vote would kill him when he didn't need to die, so why is that relevant?

And my focus on Skruffs I see as a point in my favor. We get only one chance. Skruffs knows his best chance is to get you to lynch me, but if he can get me to lynch you, that works too. Whereas I know what basket all my eggs are in; the two possible persuasions are not equal from my perspective because only one of you is fellow town trying to lynch scum.

I have no idea why Glork voted MOS.

[Skruffs]

I will comment on your case, Destructor, in my next post, but I'd like TSS to explain how he managed to use his ability two nights in a row considering that his claimed ability is only able to be used every other night.

I think that him fake claiming his role and being called out for it in TWO GAMES in a row now (cultafia being hte first) is rather ironic.

[the silent speaker]

Am running my response past the mod as we speak.

[the silent speaker]

It has been cleared for me to say that the mod let the consecutive actions stand since the error was his.

[Skruffs]

That doesn't mean anything to me; if you fake claimed the role, you can fake claim a mod's response to questions. Regardless, if the mod had let consecutive actions stand, you would have known that it was on consecutive nights, and labelled them as such, and the first time I brought it up, (yesterday) you would have explained the discrepancy.

You didn't.

[the silent speaker]

No, because the glitch happened right around when I joined the game. I've only sent in one action. I assumed the count was accurate and sent in my choice accordingly.

[Skruffs]

I dunno, both the mod and the player both 'missing' a night and not realizing it is kind of odd. That aside, I'll go back to the beginning (again) and pull out stuff about Glork.

[destructor]

I think I'm going to have to go post by post on Than/Skruffs, Glork/tss and all lynched scum. I might have voted tss a while ago if not for one post Glork made that's really making me think. I'm not saying which it was because I want to see what else you guys say without me having pointed it out, which may or may not be meaningless in the end.

[Skruffs]

If TSS's role is legitimate, then I have to consider that you are sucm just p[laying with my head. But even if I thought you were scum, and unvoted, you could just quick hammer me with TSS, so I can't play that game really. Unless of course you can't hammer. Why didn't you claim, yet, now that it doesn't matter?

[destructor]

Dunno. I didn't see any point in it since I'm confirmed innocent. I don't think there is much to be made of this. Unless you have a really good reason to suspect I could be actually be scum in the face of all the reasons to believe I'm innocent there is nothing to be gained by asking me to claim.

I don't know why you're considering that I could be scum. I would have hammered one of you already. To say that I can't hammer is nothing but speculation that there is no reason to be making. Why would I have waited for you to vote tss when he voted for you if I couldn't hammer? My play would have been to vote tss right there and then and let you hammer. I knew you were going to vote him after I'd posted.

[Skruffs]

Yes, regardless of my role, you not hammering after he voted me meant I had to vote him, either because you were cleared and he therfore had to be scum, or because by being voted I had to push harder to mislead you, as scum.

I really wasn't sure, before he voted me, which of the two of you were scum. Him voting me, cleared you, for the most part. Remember though that his claimed role was that he could make other players unlynchable - you not voting rigt afterwards Could have meant that you thought he, as protown and you as scum, was baiting you to get a nolynch. Which would have helped you as scum anyways, but not him. So even in that case, you were unclaimed and thus could potentially somehow pevent him from scum-winning even as a no-lyncher, so he also had to walk carefully.

I have a splitting headache so I am ure none of this makes sense. Basically when I challenged him to vote me, I was trying to force the game into.a town-loss if you were scum that I could blame on him, or forcing him to clear you if you are town which would thereby increase both of our chances of voting correctly.

Regardless of all that, I think you should examine how both me and tss treated lynched players that were town versus scum as well as interactions between us and scum.

[the silent speaker]

Skruffs's probes of you, and his question to me about the missed night, are illustrations of the sort of thing that I think should convince you that he's scum. Skruffs never was interested in my answers, since he planned to fall back on "well, he could be making that up" whatever I said, and he can't have thought to catch you in something, since if you were scum we wouldn't still be here. All he achieved by asking was seeming to be seeking the truth. I am not, because I've already found it. I'm partisan, me. Since I

know

Skruffs is scum, I don't need to find anything out. Likewise Skruffs should

know

my role if he were town, but till now he has tried to seem like he was entertaining more possibilities.

I really wasn't sure, before he voted me, which of the two of you were scum. Him voting me, cleared you, for the most part. Remember though that his claimed role was that he could make other players unlynchable - you not voting rigt afterwards Could have meant that you thought he, as protown and you as scum, was baiting you to get a nolynch. Which would have helped you as scum anyways, but not him. So even in that case, you were unclaimed and thus could potentially somehow pevent him from scum-winning even as a no-lyncher, so he also had to walk carefully.

Note this paragraph from Skruffs. His claim of a trap is utterly inconsistent with his avowed lack of knowledge which of us was scum -- itself a highly dubious proposition, since I had no difficulty and nothing in Skruffs's posts toward the beginning of the day suggests that he was particularly evenly torn. (Nor should he have been, since you already had about two chances of being scum and one of them was "slim".)
His claim of concern that you were scum having an unintelligible interaction with my role depends wholly on his simultaneously noticing that there was a night missing in my role (which was due to mod's error right when I replaced and had no reason to question the existence of any error) and not noticing that last night was my off night. There is no way he could have noticed one and not the other, so his stated concern is bunkum.

[Skruffs]

Right, because even though you were 100% I was scum yesterday, you were just as eager to get oman lynched as my buddy. You used my questioning of hisclaim as 'leading' which both helped his claim look less legit to foolster and helped get him lynched. You yourself rather pointedly did everything you could to avoid potentially validating his claim, and today, you are trying the age-old maxim of repeating 'skruffs is scum' with out any actual debateable reason behind it in an attempt to 'power of suggestion'-style coerce destructor to vote.

[destructor]

I'm about ready to vote. I've been tossing this game around in my head for a while and I've figured few things that are weighing in most heavily:
- Skruffs' play here, more than tss', resembles what I'd be doing in this situation as town. What tss is referring to as Skruffs trying to keep his options open by questioning me is probably something I'd do myself, or at least be thinking, especially given that this is lylo. I also realised that I can't remember tss ever explaining why he thought I was town besides thinking Skruffs was scum.
- I like my gut and it's usually good to me.
- After spending hours rereading Thanatos months ago, I figured that he seemed more like hesitant and lazy town than plain lazy scum.
- Glork's play never convinced me he was pro-town.

Given all of this, I think tss is scum.

There are two things that have caused me to pause and take my time. First is this from Glork:

I don't know about the ZONEACE lynch. Sure he's not been very helpful and he has been an asshat, but if that makes him scum, why didn't we lynch Niv again?

Hmm, good point, Why aren't we lynching Niv?

I would say it's most likely because
Those of use who stop and give pause
Invariably conclude that being an ass
Is not scummy -- just hideously crass.

Why is Gage protecting ZONEACE?
Do they conspire at the scums' base?
This is clear deflection of momentum sound
An additional scum we may have found.

He pretty much pinned Zoneace and Gage/undo as scum right there. But his next post is a commentary on the MoS-DGB drama and a few post later he's unvoted Zoneace and voted MoS. He did get back on Zoneace's case a few times in the game but never

really

seemed to push the case until the time he was actually lynched, and even then he let us know that he could "totally go for a Knight of Cydonia wagon." That seems pretty blatant but in truth I was thinking Knight was scum as well, given how much he seemed to be avoiding commenting on Zoneace. Zoneace flipping scum made Knight the obvious lynch the following day.

So, calling Gage and Zoneace out was definitely points for Glork, but his lack of following up allows me to see it as distancing.

The other things that's stopping me voting right off the bat is what Skruffs did when undo was lynched. I've asked him about this a few times and he still hasn't explained himself. I still see no sensible reason for him to have reacted to the whole thing the way he did. This could basically make or break the game for Skruffs, town or scum and it's not reflecting well that he hasn't answered my questions about it yet.

Skruffs, why didn't you agree to test undo's claim?
Why did you believe he was telling the truth at all?
It looks like you were trying to do nothing other than to keep undo alive since voting for him wouldn't have gotten him lynched anyway, if he was telling the truth.

[destructor]

EBWOP:

... I also realised that I can't remember tss ever explaining why he thought I was town besides thinking Skruffs was scum.

That reason only really works today. I can't remember tss saying anything to explain why he wasn't considering me as scum before he started talking about a Skruffs-Oman scum team. In fact, Gorrad, who tss claimed to take a lead from because of his role, was suspicious of me for the greater part of this game. Why did tss accept Gorrad's guess that there were two scum left, but not his suspicion of me?