In post 1711, Prism wrote:I really hate to say this but I now think Titus is pretty town. I'm only up through the first 60 posts but Titus's worldview is clear, ex. Dunn hiding behind LLD demotivates her further, this didn't come up only recently but has come up repeatedly. Great progression on Bell with 604, 605, 614. 636 actually is trying to work with Math.
Leaping off of this the entire sequence regarding Math's read on Bell beginning in 636, resulting in a vote on Math in 656 is great. They're legitimately trying to dialogue with Math, not at all setting him up to fail, and immediately gets frustrated when Math shuts down any hope of basic discussion.
I'm struggling to see how this stuff connects with Titus' reads list in 1455 where Bell is solid town - I see no mentions here. I think I may even have remarked about this before.
Like if you're scum and bell is town you have to end up w/ Bell town eventually because as everyone in this game knows he's patently unmislimable but he serves as a nice push target in the meantime.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:17 pm
by borkjerfkin
(And yes I realize that these are 800+ posts apart)
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:20 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2741, Prism wrote:I don't think my point on Grey atm is particularly complex; intuitively I feel like his interactions around me have been all wrong, but lately I think he's been very content to ignore any points for town-Titus in favor of pushing her for playing poorly. (And if he's right, shame on me, but I haven't seen those given fair consideration despite him working so hard to get a reply out of me)
Is Grey saying you scumslipped here or what am I fucking reading in the post I quoted
because if that's the case he should be being very deliberate in this explanation of it
In post 1711, Prism wrote:I really hate to say this but I now think Titus is pretty town. I'm only up through the first 60 posts but Titus's worldview is clear, ex. Dunn hiding behind LLD demotivates her further, this didn't come up only recently but has come up repeatedly. Great progression on Bell with 604, 605, 614. 636 actually is trying to work with Math.
Leaping off of this the entire sequence regarding Math's read on Bell beginning in 636, resulting in a vote on Math in 656 is great. They're legitimately trying to dialogue with Math, not at all setting him up to fail, and immediately gets frustrated when Math shuts down any hope of basic discussion.
I'm struggling to see how this stuff connects with Titus' reads list in 1455 where Bell is solid town - I see no mentions here. I think I may even have remarked about this before.
Like if you're scum and bell is town you have to end up w/ Bell town eventually because as everyone in this game knows he's patently unmislimable but he serves as a nice push target in the meantime.
I actually missed this, because I was looking back entirely to see if she suspected Bell Day 1 and stopped when I was satisfied.
I would LOVE to hear from Titus about how Bell went from "my top SR" in 636 to being town in the reads wall of 1455
.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:21 pm
by Spiffeh
Prism I appreciate you a ton this game, did not expect you to be one of my favorite posters especially in this playerlist but you've blown me away
Thank you for your kind words
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:27 pm
by Prism
So for example bork, one post I missed about Titus from you was 2315, which was honestly forgettable. Your snippet from her in the wall wasn't bad but really didn't engage with counters like mine/Bell's at all, and the characterization in 2731 was VERY off. If you have a scumread I want you to fucking push it and tell me why I'm wrong and just
In post 2741, Prism wrote:I don't think my point on Grey atm is particularly complex; intuitively I feel like his interactions around me have been all wrong, but lately I think he's been very content to ignore any points for town-Titus in favor of pushing her for playing poorly. (And if he's right, shame on me, but I haven't seen those given fair consideration despite him working so hard to get a reply out of me)
Is Grey saying you scumslipped here or what am I fucking reading in the post I quoted
because if that's the case he should be being very deliberate in this explanation of it
I think Grey was being very obtuse and insistent that he didn't have to justify not scumreading me in the wake of a mastina flip if I were town. I think this engagement is where it originates from:
I don't necessarily think that's indicative of a person being town
It's probably more indicative of a particularly weak scumteam that most people (town and scum) have in their poe
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:32 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2755, Prism wrote:I don't think asking "Why don't you scumread me?" requires me to be scum but perhaps Grey's opinion varies.
I don't either and that's a pretty dumb thing to say
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:33 pm
by Prism
The wrong characterization was in the nature of my defense, it doesn't really have so much to do with her being stubborn or dense. It has to do with the mastina flip and her worldview making some sense Day 1 when I lined it up. The mastina interactions I think are town, the worldview stuff Day 1 wasn't hard town by any means and her reads being (imo) extremely bad and surface level makes it a lot harder to read her. There are also some posts that felt natural and out of left field for Titus scum (backing down on me/Cakez when she saw a VC that went against it) but nothing that couldn't be faked.
In post 2724, Bell wrote:Located town: spiffed, LLD. Prism. Bell.
I like this list except I'm still hesitant about spiff
Now I think you're just doing this to annoy me
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:34 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2761, Prism wrote:The wrong characterization was in the nature of my defense, it doesn't really have so much to do with her being stubborn or dense.
Oh.
I made the best attempt to put the biggest fucking error bars I could there because I literally couldn't find the post at the time, I'll cop to any mischaracterization of that I had, I was going off my memory of it.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:34 pm
by Prism
Also I'm finding it hard to get to everything at once/prioritize posts appropriately but I'm glad to have both of you too re: Tammy/Spiffeh, and I'm looking forward to LLD joining us tomorrow.
I don't necessarily think that's indicative of a person being town
It's probably more indicative of a particularly weak scumteam that most people (town and scum) have in their poe
Not sure why you'd think I'd be bussing over me being town then
Not sure why you think I'd be scum at all, actually
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:37 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2765, Dunnstral wrote:Not sure why you'd think I'd be bussing over me being town then
I'm not saying that - you came in with "What do you think my reads are". Why did you ask me that if not to imply I should be townreading you for it?
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:41 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2764, Prism wrote:Also I'm finding it hard to get to everything at once/prioritize posts appropriately but I'm glad to have both of you too re: Tammy/Spiffeh, and I'm looking forward to LLD joining us tomorrow.
fwiw i was very moved and there was a point in 2181 where I kinda felt maybe our feud there was gonna bleed out of game but I kinda get how you treat games now (maybe?) and realize it's not like that and you have an uncanny ability to compartmentalize.
either way I came out of that game feeling really good about playing w/ you again despite how it went down.
In post 2738, Tammy wrote:I'm interested in that read because that read has been your main focus. The majority of your day one was focused around the Titus read such that you suspected people based on Titus/mastina positioning. You got after Mastina for her dumb Prism case, but made it clear that your interest was in Titus.
I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus for reasons that I'm not so sure are for certain scum? That isn't to say that I don't agree with your problems about Titus because I did bring up some of the same problems with Titus yesterday. It just feels like it's a major focus with not much more depth. I'm interested in that depth. In part because I want to be able to read you, and I'd like your take. Titus is someone that I've gone back and forth on, and some of your issues with her are somewhat either or.
OR are you scum who's been focusing on Titus because it's easy to find scummy things about Titus and focus on her? I kindaaaa don't think if Titus is scum and a pr as has been suggested that you'd get as cranky as you did yesterday that people were going to mastina instead. But if Titus is town, then your focus for some of the reasons that you suggested, doesn't feel great. (I do like the part where you think Titus should be pushing in a different direction if she were town for some of her reads; I see possible glimmers of town there, but I'm not sure the mathblade issue is as concrete as you presented it (even though I admittedly felt the same way yesterday.)
My play didn't revolve around Titus.
It's the one wagon I got on but it's not where the majority of my engagement lies.
Like I don't even want to go into the rest of this before we get past that point - you're mischaracterizing my opinions on Titus.
If I felt strongly on Titus I'd have come into today and fucking voted her. I was waiting on the mastina flip before I dealt with that, and she flipped in a way that didn't implicate Titus in the way I described.
So I didn't vote there and am mostly reacting to her play today is why I'm conflicted on my mechanical wagon maybe town vs play oriented maybe scum
but I look at your
I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus
and wonder if you're reading the same game I am.
that said, I'm not meaning to ignore any post in the game, but I don't appreciate the "bork ignored X <and I don't think he'd do that as town>"
like I ignored the whole fucking forward thread in tenet except when I was feeling on top of my game. You can bet your ass I've glossed over posts and will continue to do that. I'll give it a fair shake now that I've been pointed at it but ???
dude you feel like piss in the wind and you can get after me FOR DARING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION all you want but I'm really confused as to why??? Are you trying to say that yesterday the biggest scum read you had wasn't Titus and that you didn't orient your reads around Titus, get after people like Dunn for not being on the Titus wagon, call out a few people for their positions on Titus? If you say no, I'm wrong about that, I'll go reread your posts from yesterday again, but I really don't think I'm mischaracterizing your read yesterday at all.
This conversation started because I asked you to flesh that read out because yesterday you were focused there, started today backing off and then put her in your poe. You asked me why I was interested in that read in particular, and I responded to why. You're acting like the first post is disconnected to this post, and I'm accusing you of revolving much of your game around her today which doesn't connect from previous posts. I didn't mischaracterize shit.
I don't know what to do here. I feel like you're impossible to play with and interact with this game, and I'm totally confused. I don't understand why you're getting pissy with me for asking a question about your interactions and reads and reading the thread, and are you really telling me to sit on my fucking hands and not ask you why you didn't interact with a post that should have been interesting to you? And you think I'm out of line for wondering that OR expecting you to read posts in a mafia game? Tenet is not comparable to here; I didn't read all the posts in the thread I WASN'T IN and wouldn't have expected you to read all the posts in the other thread either. BUT we're all in one game here, not separate threads, and yeah fine if you miss a post. I haven't read every post either, but getting pissy at me asking you what you think about a post someone made AND let's not mistake something here buddy, you're mischaracterizing me. I literally never ever said that Bork ignored that and don't think he'd do it as town.
How the conversation actually went was:
In post 2727, Tammy wrote:What do you think of the reasons that people have provided for thinking Titus is town. Unless I'm missing something, that's missing and I don't really understand why.
In post 2731, borkjerfkin wrote:re: people's reasons for townreading Titus - point to one in particular that we can talk about. I remember Prism saying they thought Titus might be town but I can't find the post right now and if I remember correctly it mostly read as "is being too unbelievably stubborn or dense or something the like" to NOT be town which I just didn't really empathize with when put forward.
In post 2739, Tammy wrote:Oh but prism wrote a decently in depth post on Titus yesterday, and I thought you'd might interact with that since you have prism as a decently strong town read.
If you didn't read it, that's all you have to say.
But actually gonna stop here. Interacting with you in the first place was a mistake.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:49 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2768, Tammy wrote:But actually gonna stop here. Interacting with you in the first place was a mistake.
I feel like I just got slapped and I have no idea what happened and I'm pretty fucking miserable about it.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:50 pm
by borkjerfkin
that said, I'm not meaning to ignore any post in the game, but I don't appreciate the "bork ignored X <and I don't think he'd do that as town>"
like I ignored the whole fucking forward thread in tenet except when I was feeling on top of my game. You can bet your ass I've glossed over posts and will continue to do that. I'll give it a fair shake now that I've been pointed at it but ???
Tammy I wasn't even talking to you here.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:51 pm
by Spiffeh
In post 2741, Prism wrote:I don't think my point on Grey atm is particularly complex; intuitively I feel like his interactions around me have been all wrong, but lately I think he's been very content to ignore any points for town-Titus in favor of pushing her for playing poorly. (And if he's right, shame on me, but I haven't seen those given fair consideration despite him working so hard to get a reply out of me)
I'm undecided on GreyICE, I didn't really like GI's posts yesterday or his vote on Titus today, but something about his aggressive interaction with you made me want to town read him. He shares a similar spot in my mind as LLD, they are players who act pretty much the same as either alignment and are a headache for me to sort. The only caveat with that is I feel like GreyICE as scum does a little more appeasing and cares more about how he's perceived by the masses, and his attacks against you don't seem like a great move for scum!GI in terms of maintaining a positive public opinion. (Note: This could be a completely incorrect characterization of how GI plays as scum, it's been a hot minute since I've played with him)
I specifically liked the post where he talked about only needing on scum lim per Day; that mastina was the Day 1 scum lim and he's looking for the Day 2 scum lim, it had an undertone of cockiness that I've come to recognize in his Town game.
I am really interested to know LLD's thoughts on GI (and bork and DGB for that matter) when she returns tomorrow.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:51 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2768, Tammy wrote:dude you feel like piss in the wind and you can get after me FOR DARING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION all you want but I'm really confused as to why??? Are you trying to say that yesterday the biggest scum read you had wasn't Titus and that you didn't orient your reads around Titus, get after people like Dunn for not being on the Titus wagon, call out a few people for their positions on Titus? If you say no, I'm wrong about that, I'll go reread your posts from yesterday again, but I really don't think I'm mischaracterizing your read yesterday at all.
fine ok but i'm just kinda lost as to what i did to piss you off
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:52 pm
by borkjerfkin
In post 2768, Tammy wrote:I haven't read every post either, but getting pissy at me asking you what you think about a post someone made AND let's not mistake something here buddy,
like i apologize - that segment was to prism, not you
=/
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:53 pm
by Spiffeh
In post 2747, borkjerfkin wrote:Had virtually nothing on quiet with that ISO - didn't feel like I could confidently gleam anything out of what I got from his 8 or so posts. It's not really the basis for any read I have now.
That is understandable, so can you elaborate on why DGB occupies such a low spot in your reads list given the content it has provided so far?
I don't even disagree, I'd just like to know how you got there.
