Page 112 of 357
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:49 pm
by Hoopla
Herodotus wrote:The point is town and scum outguessing each other, but Olinea is right that there's a chance the town will be far, far ahead at the end of day 1. What if the mafia started as goons, and assigned the lights-off and lights-on/off roles between them on night 1?
If Mafia is poor enough to have their key player lynched Day 1, they ought to be in a difficult to win situation. In some newbie games and some open set-ups, a correct lynch Day 1 of mafias key powerrole almost certainly nails them. Say in a Newbie Game, if the M. Roleblocker is lynched D1, a cop has the full safety of knowing a Doctor exists to break the game, unless mafia gets lucky N1. In small games, one or two lynches deciding the game is not a damaging mechanic - it's extremely hard to give each side enough room for multiple chances. Having said that, I don't think the situation is so bleak in an On/Off Goon lynch D1;
Scum's "optimal" play N1 is to shoot with the Lights On, as townies thinking in the way Hero suggested could net them a 1:6 nightless game, but if they're wrong, this gives mafia a free kill (remember, townies can't change their light status after a lynch or at night). I expect at least one townie would switch their light off for N1 to compensate for this, and if they do, losing the On/Off Goon D1 still gives the Off Goon some townies to aim for, preventing it from being essentially nightless. The balance of the game was designed so that two mislynches loses the game,
unless
town can outguess scum once at night, as one prevented NK gives them a third mislynch - I think this mechanic makes trying for lights off a viable play for N1, as town are really only wanting one save, unless they're banking on hitting the On/Off Goon to cash in an advantage in a psuedo-nightless game.
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:00 am
by Xalxe
I like Hoopla's a lot. Maybe not have the Goons flip on death (just mafia, don't know on/off?)
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:53 am
by ortolan
Xalxe wrote:I like Hoopla's a lot. Maybe not have the Goons flip on death (just mafia, don't know on/off?)
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:09 am
by Hoopla
Xalxe wrote:I like Hoopla's a lot. Maybe not have the Goons flip on death (just mafia, don't know on/off?)
The only reason this would be a good idea is if you want a safety net for the ~12% of games that have an On/Off Goon lynch D1 - but if it's reasonable to believe that some townies would turn their lights off on Day 1, to prevent scum getting a free kill N1 in the 88% of games where the On/Off Goon isn't lynched, then there isn't a safety net needed after all, as some townies are now killable by the Off-Goon, preventing it from being an out-and-out 1:6 Nightless game.
If you're to believe that town's optimal play is to not turn
any
lights off for N1 (say an orchestrated plan decided on D1), then in 88% of games, scum get a free kill on N1. The net gain of a free kill in the bulk of these games more than compensates for the occasional one-off scum blunder, to the point where it would be irrational and suboptimal from a townie perspective not to turn lights off N1 (or be open to possibility of it).
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:40 am
by Tragedy
Hoopla wrote:
6x
Lights-On Townies
1x
Lights-On/
Off Goon
1x Lights-Off Goon
~~
- Day Start
- Each Townie has a light they can turn off any time during the day. Once they turn it off, it stays off.
- The Lights-Off Goon can only kill Townies who's lights are Off.
- The Lights-On/Off Goon can choose to make a Lights On or Off kill. Whichever she picks, her kill has to match the townie's light.
- Townies can't turn their lights off during twilight or night.
The only problem if, what if the Lights-On Townies left their lights on the whole game, while the Lights-On/Off Goon is already dead?
Eventually, the Lights-Off goon is going to be lynched this way.
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:31 pm
by Hoopla
Tragedy wrote:
The only problem if, what if the Lights-On Townies left their lights on the whole game, while the Lights-On/Off Goon is already dead?
Eventually, the Lights-Off goon is going to be lynched this way.
I think the key mechanic that is being missed here, is that town has to choose their light status for night
prior
to the lynch. They can't sit back, wait and see if they've lynched the On/Off Goon and if they don't, then make a decision. In 88% of games going into N1, the On/Off Goon will exist to kill a Lights-On townie. Do you think it's worth all the townies keeping their lights on for N1 for a 12% chance? Scum then get a free NK if the town is wrong (which then puts them in a potential mylo D2).
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:16 pm
by andrew94
i like hoopla's idea, and i like krazy's one (i think its balanced)
can someoen also link me to prisoner's?
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:41 am
by chkflip
Craaap, only twelve-ish mods left (nine if you don't count the one that can't go
today
), someone said they liked one of the versions... meh, I have no faith in myself, I'll just run one of the been-done-so-many-times-its-redundant ones I guess.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:45 am
by Xalxe
Oh, I didn't catch that Hoopla. I like that one. A lot. Can I steal it for my game that will happen in approximately forever?
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:06 am
by chkflip
Hoopla wrote:
6x
Lights-On Townies
1x
Lights-On/
Off Goon
1x Lights-Off Goon
~~
- Day Start
- Each Townie has a light they can turn off any time during the day. Once they turn it off, it stays off.
- The Lights-Off Goon can only kill Townies who's lights are Off.
- The Lights-On/Off Goon can choose to make a Lights On or Off kill. Whichever she picks, her kill has to match the townie's light.
- Townies can't turn their lights off during twilight or night.
NOMNOMNOM... inate.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:21 pm
by drmyshottyizsik
Lights Mafia(Shotty's Version)
7x
Lights-On Townies
1x
Electrician
1x
Lights-On/
Off Goon
1x Lights-Off Goon
1x
Lights-On
Goon
~~
- Day Start
- Each Townie has a light they can turn off any time during the day. Once they turn it off, it stays off.
- The Lights-Off Goon can only kill Townies who's lights are Off.
- The Lights-On/Off Goon can choose to make a Lights On or Off kill. Whichever she picks, her kill has to match the townie's light.
- Townies can't turn their lights off during twilight or night.
- Electrician targets one person each night and grounds their wires. He doesn't turn their switches on or off, but rather renders them null. So if he targets a mafia member that mafia member can't kill, and if he targets a don't member that town member can't be killed.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:29 pm
by chesskid3
^ horrible
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:37 pm
by wierdalexv
Hi all...I know I don't qualify to mod yet and my setup is unbalanced and sucks in the first place, but I decided to put this on anyways (Bvoigt did not approve). If you have any ideas or thoughts on improvements or anything, just send me a PM. Here it is, for Police Squad Mafia:
x1
(or sane
?)
x1
x1
x1
x1
x2
(or x1
x1
?)
Cops don't know what sanity they are, and they are not revealed on death. If I do decide on a Flavor Cop, they will learn the players sanity (maybe I should make it One-Shot). Any thoughts?
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:52 pm
by Antihero
chesskid3 wrote:^ horrible
^constructive
To my understanding, the electrician is pretty much a jailkeeper. You also added more players. While there's nothing inherantly bad about that, sometimes less is more, which I think is the case here. EDIT: Since this game is probably going to have a bunch of mafia misfires, a larger version of this game will probably drag on too long. That's why fewer players is better here.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:53 pm
by Antihero
wierdalexv wrote:Hi all...I know I don't qualify to mod yet and my setup is unbalanced and sucks in the first place, but I decided to put this on anyways (Bvoigt did not approve). If you have any ideas or thoughts on improvements or anything, just send me a PM. Here it is, for Police Squad Mafia:
x1
(or sane
?)
x1
x1
x1
x1
x2
(or x1
x1
?)
Cops don't know what sanity they are, and they are not revealed on death. If I do decide on a Flavor Cop, they will learn the players sanity (maybe I should make it One-Shot). Any thoughts?
Also, this is very close to dethy.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:12 pm
by Crazy
One of the things I sorta dislike about Lights Mafia is that the whole Lights On/Off decision seems kind of arbitrary. I mean, the only speculation for a townie to turn their lights off/on is "Ooh, I wonder if we'll lynch the On/Off Goon today." The only speculation for the scum is "Ooh, I wonder if Townie X thought that the On/Off Goon was going to be lynched today." That's not much. And I think the whole setup kind of fails if either scum is lynched Day 1. After that, the game will either turn into Nightless after Night 1 or the whole on/off decision will be 100% random after Night 1.
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:27 am
by Ythill
Hello.
I am working on a large theme that will be run as an open game. It's somewhat complicated and probably will not be considered for the open games list, so I'm not sure this is the appropriate place to discuss it.
Perhaps some of you would like to discuss it via PM?
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:56 pm
by theplague42
^maybe the theme test market would be the proper thread? I'm not entirely sure.
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:12 pm
by wierdalexv
Antihero wrote:wierdalexv wrote:Hi all...I know I don't qualify to mod yet and my setup is unbalanced and sucks in the first place, but I decided to put this on anyways (Bvoigt did not approve). If you have any ideas or thoughts on improvements or anything, just send me a PM. Here it is, for Police Squad Mafia:
x1
(or sane
?)
x1
x1
x1
x1
x2
(or x1
x1
?)
Cops don't know what sanity they are, and they are not revealed on death. If I do decide on a Flavor Cop, they will learn the players sanity (maybe I should make it One-Shot). Any thoughts?
Also, this is very close to dethy.
Yeah I tried to make a balanced version of Dethy, but I think I made it worse LOL.
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:32 pm
by Herodotus
Ythill wrote:Hello.
I am working on a large theme that will be run as an open game. It's somewhat complicated and probably will not be considered for the open games list, so I'm not sure this is the appropriate place to discuss it.
Perhaps some of you would like to discuss it via PM?
I'd be happy to review it.
but I probably shouldn't be the only one
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:37 pm
by Hoopla
If it's open, why discuss it by PM?
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:41 pm
by GreyICE
Crazy wrote:One of the things I sorta dislike about Lights Mafia is that the whole Lights On/Off decision seems kind of arbitrary. I mean, the only speculation for a townie to turn their lights off/on is "Ooh, I wonder if we'll lynch the On/Off Goon today." The only speculation for the scum is "Ooh, I wonder if Townie X thought that the On/Off Goon was going to be lynched today." That's not much. And I think the whole setup kind of fails if either scum is lynched Day 1. After that, the game will either turn into Nightless after Night 1 or the whole on/off decision will be 100% random after Night 1.
Meh it's only random in the sense that lynches are random.
Did the player decide to pull the trigger and shut their lights off? Or keep them on and wait?
Someone will suggest flipping a coin. Someone else will suggest the better idea (rolling a die, if it's 1 or 2, turn them off, otherwise keep them on, repeat each day). Will people game the system? Or will they stick to it?
It is very interesting.
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:48 pm
by chkflip
I've been FRAMED... Mafia
1x Mafia Framer
1x Mafia Back-up Framer
1x Cop
7x Vanilla
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:55 pm
by Ythan
What's the point in specifying one of them as the framer and the other as the back-up if there are no mechanics that depend on which one of them is framing? Just say they share a kill and a frame.
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:59 pm
by chkflip
I just figured it would be wise to be specific as it would defeat the purpose of the name when the Framer is lynched.