Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[kunkstar7]

2-shot means you choose which nights to activate I'm assuming. Otherwise you would die the first night scum kills if its for all abilities. I think we need a fullclaim from Ythan now.

2 shot bulletproof doesn't mean you have to choose to activate it, so that is not valid.

I thought lightning rod was for all abilities, not night kills. I"ll go check around a bit more.

I wasn't referring to bulletproof, but more in general. Think like a 2-shot cop or 2 shot vig or such.

First thoughts wanted to lynch elsewhere and have Ythan try to activate tonight for the "confirmation." But really at this point any confirmation on his part is pointless, it should have been done a long time ago. His claim here and supposed play of the role doesn't give me confidence in his alignment.

[Nachomamma8]

What pisses me off is that WE'RE doing more research into Ythan's role than Ythan himself did. And if you got a role with an odd name you hadn't seen before, wouldn't you decide to do the research?

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Not Voting (23) - Locke Lamora, holycon, rhinox, nachomamma8, kmd4390, Ythan, kunkstar7, esuriospiritus, Battosuai

Deadline is still Saturday the 27th, 9PM PST

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Ythan

[Ythan]

What I don't understand is, why didn't you check the wiki to make sure you had your role correctly or at least PM'd the mod for a clarification (it's not all too common of a role, and if I had it, I would want to know if it a) was automatic, b) includes mafia night kill, c) invokes all night actions or just a player I select.

Because the mod's poor wording made it pretty clearly say what I thought it was.

On top of all of this, why didn't the two-shot claim give you pause at all? Two-shot abilities are rare, and they don't really add to the believability of a fake-claim at all. Didn't you think it was more than pure coincidence? Also, didn't it seem interesting to you that he had exactly two commutes to your two lightning rods, which meant two nights of NK immunity for you?

That has nothing to do with alignment.

What pisses me off is that WE'RE doing more research into Ythan's role than Ythan himself did. And if you got a role with an odd name you hadn't seen before, wouldn't you decide to do the research?

Role PMs are supposed to explain what a role does. This one did so poorly. And if you're pissed off I guess eat a dick/get over it.

Anyone who intends to vote for me today needs to explain how this incident makes me a better lynch than other players who have been on the verge of a lynch since god knows when. Players like Batt. Someone, at least one someone, is hopping on an easy wagon here and disregarding the rest of the game before the MC.

[Nachomamma8]

That has nothing to do with alignment.

Then why did you care about his claim? Considering you weren't planning on even looking at it to see if it made sense or to compare it to your own at all...

disregarding the rest of the game before the MC.

The rest of the game? Like... the situation with Richard? Nothing else you've done in this game has been significantly pro-town...

[Ythan]

You're using "not obv-town" to justify suddenly disregarding very recent obvious lynch candidates. That's townplausible.

[Nachomamma8]

Obviously I'm not going to drop everything I have on Batt and Rhinox just yet, but you've jumped a lot higher in my suspicions right now. Especially since you completely ignored Batt and holy these past couple of days and NOW they're suddenly viable lynch candidates for you? That's a load of crap.

[Ythan]

No I have not ignored them actually. Don't worry, everyone has trouble with reading comp in large games sometimes.

[Locke Lamora]

2-shot means you choose which nights to activate I'm assuming. Otherwise you would die the first night scum kills if its for all abilities. I think we need a fullclaim from Ythan now.

2 shot bulletproof doesn't mean you have to choose to activate it, so that is not valid.

I thought lightning rod was for all abilities, not night kills. I"ll go check around a bit more.

I wasn't referring to bulletproof, but more in general. Think like a 2-shot cop or 2 shot vig or such.

First thoughts wanted to lynch elsewhere and have Ythan try to activate tonight for the "confirmation." But really at this point any confirmation on his part is pointless, it should have been done a long time ago. His claim here and supposed play of the role doesn't give me confidence in his alignment.

What on earth are you talking about? If Ythan is legit, he activates his ability and scum NK, he dies. If he's not, someone else will die. Isn't the 'point' of the confirmation the fact that he'll die if he's town? This is a really weak line of thinking that seems motivated by the desire to push the easy lynch through and I think it warrants a vote, once I get something clarified.

Am I missing something here? If Ythan draws all night actions, surely the way to proceed here is to lynch someone else and see if he dies? If he does, he's obviously town. If he doesn't, he's obviously lying scum. If there's no kill, we don't get confirmation but we do get the advantage of scum not being able to claim more votes.

[Nachomamma8]

The problem is how many scum are left.
If there's four scum left like I'm assuming there are, then a mislynch + NK means that it'll be four scum versus 3 town which means even town had all the the votes, it would still be game over.

[Ythan]

Then you're probably going to win anyway and should let us townies do our thing for now.

[Battousai]

Kunkstar- I mentioned bulletproof to show that 2 shot doesn't auto mean you have to choose to activate your role (which was your point)

What I don't understand is, why didn't you check the wiki to make sure you had your role correctly or at least PM'd the mod for a clarification (it's not all too common of a role, and if I had it, I would want to know if it a) was automatic, b) includes mafia night kill, c) invokes all night actions or just a player I select.

Because the mod's poor wording made it pretty clearly say what I thought it was.

I'm not going to forget my last point in the paragragh:

I also don't understand how you misunderstood the role pm. It seems pretty straightforward "... all night actions of another player will be redirected to you" or "... all night actions will be directed to you"- I don't see how the mod could have worded it so that it would include "another player" but mean "all other players"

You are blaming the mod for your lack of research (an entity that can't be defended), and your defense can not be refuted by proof (aka telling us word for word what the mod said about your ability). This is all just a bit too convenient for me.

And now, instead of trying to defend yourself to our satisfaction, you try and put two candidates for lynch in the spotlight (one of which is voting/questioning your role) and then implying someone else who doesn't quite buy your role, as scum.

Also, I find it suspect you didn't try and use your ability once before today. I mean you call out me and holy as the lynch candidates today, why not use it last night on one of use in order to try and save jahudo? If you're not willing to miss with a 2-shot ability on someone who you think is scum in order to protect someone you find to be very pro-town (as does the rest of the town), why are you more willing to lynch them instead the next day (day 8 with only 1 scum lynched making us close to the very end of the game), thus sacrificing jahudo in the process of not losing a shot?

[Kmd4390]

Guys.

We have several scum left to lynch.

I propose the following:

-Lynch Batt today
-Ythan uses his ability tonight
-If Ythan dies, we know he was town and won't waste a lynch on him
-If someone other than Ythan dies, we lynch him.
-If no one dies, well, we just escaped a townie death and we'll worry about tomorrow tomorrow.

This forces Ythan to use his ability if he is town because if he doesn't, we'll lynch him and probably lose the game. So he'd have to be retarded not to use it. Also if he's town, we won't waste a lynch on him because he will be NK'd. If he's scum, we'll catch him this way. At worst, we get a free lynch without having to worry about a NK which is far from being a bad thing.

Vote Batt

[Battousai]

Good game scum! We just lost as KMD has failed to release that if he is wrong, and he is, that ythan can hammer me, a townie will be killed tonight (kmd town most likely), and tomorrow will start with 7 players alive, 4 scum- 3 town? (meaning kmd has more than a 50% chance of giving scum his votes and winning). All of this in order to check and see if ythan is lieing.

THERE IS NO MORE WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION OF ROLES. THAT DAY HAS COME AND GONE A WHILE AGO. IF WE TRY AND CONFIRM YTHAN, THEN TOWN LOSES. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE YTHAN'S CLAIMS, YOU MUST LYNCH HIM. IF NOT, YOU TRY AND FIND SCUM ELSEWHERE. THERE IS NO "WAIT AND SEE" WITH YTHAN. IT'S IS HE SCUM OR IS HE TOWN, NO MIDDLE GROUND. NO WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

to let everyone discuss.

[Battousai]

Thank you, for at least postponing it...

[Kmd4390]

Dammit! Lost my post.

Ok lemme try that again.

There are several scum left in this game. If Ythan is town and cooperates (Ythan, I hope you realize you are dying either way and if you are town it's more helpful to use your ability than to be mislynched), he gets NK'd. Sure, we have to be right with today's lynch. This is true whether we lynch Ythan or someone else. And TBQH, Ythan hasn't been at the top of my list throughout the game. If it weren't for his 6 votes and his claim, I don't think he'd be such a hot topic of discussion. I'm more confident lynching Batt or Kunk today.

THERE IS NO MORE WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION OF ROLES. THAT DAY HAS COME AND GONE A WHILE AGO. IF WE TRY AND CONFIRM YTHAN, THEN TOWN LOSES. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE YTHAN'S CLAIMS, YOU MUST LYNCH HIM. IF NOT, YOU TRY AND FIND SCUM ELSEWHERE. THERE IS NO "WAIT AND SEE" WITH YTHAN. IT'S IS HE SCUM OR IS HE TOWN, NO MIDDLE GROUND. NO WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION.

If there was only one scum, I'd agree with your fancy "OMG CAPS LOOK AT ME I MUST BE TOWN CUZ I CARE THIIIIIISSSSS MUCH".

[esuriospiritus]

If there was only one scum, I'd agree with your fancy "OMG CAPS LOOK AT ME I MUST BE TOWN CUZ I CARE THIIIIIISSSSS MUCH".

Funny, I thought he was genuine. This comment says more about your desperation to get Batt lynched than it does about him, I think.

I really don't understand the Batt!scum crusaders.

[Battousai]

THERE IS NO MORE WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION OF ROLES. THAT DAY HAS COME AND GONE A WHILE AGO. IF WE TRY AND CONFIRM YTHAN, THEN TOWN LOSES. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE YTHAN'S CLAIMS, YOU MUST LYNCH HIM. IF NOT, YOU TRY AND FIND SCUM ELSEWHERE. THERE IS NO "WAIT AND SEE" WITH YTHAN. IT'S IS HE SCUM OR IS HE TOWN, NO MIDDLE GROUND. NO WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION.

If there was only one scum, I'd agree with your fancy "OMG CAPS LOOK AT ME I MUST BE TOWN CUZ I CARE THIIIIIISSSSS MUCH".

Well, apparently you don't respond to normal type:

The problem is how many scum are left.
If there's four scum left like I'm assuming there are, then a mislynch + NK means that it'll be four scum versus 3 town which means even town had all the the votes, it would still be game over.

[Rhinox]

ESURIO!

PEDIT: A lightning rod ability would just get him killed, so it's less of a protective role and more of a redirection. Mafia would still get to probably kill someone and end up one step closer to winning.

so.... how is a body guard a protective role and this isn't?

I think thats a slip.

This needs a response.

-------

KMD: I agree that Ythan "uses his ability" tonight if he's not lynched today. If ythan is alive tomorrow, he's my lynch choice automatically. Today's lynch is important though and I'm not yet sure Batt is the choice. But nobody is getting lynched without your or ythan's votes, so...

[Ythan]

Batt you're either a fool in which case I'm not going to repeat myself or, more likely, you're just being intentionally dense so you don't have to accept that your position is moronic. My PM said one thing, I didn't take it upon myself to research the role beyond what the PM said. If that doesn't make sense to you then I guess you're lucky you got something simple like goon.

Kmd, you were right to vote Batt. He is just as blatant obvscum today as he was yesterday. Or worse. Cartoonishly obvious at this point.

[Battousai]

Also, please put up a case against me or at least link to your past one, if you made it, and reconfirm your convictions. Calling me obvscum isn't a case.

[esuriospiritus]

ESURIO!

PEDIT: A lightning rod ability would just get him killed, so it's less of a protective role and more of a redirection. Mafia would still get to probably kill someone and end up one step closer to winning.

so.... how is a body guard a protective role and this isn't?

I think thats a slip.

This needs a response.

I really didn't think it did, but ok.

Ugh. Full-scale mafia apathy. Very very tempted to replace out, but I wouldn't wish 107 pages of reading on my worst enemy, soooo.... yeah.

I'm more receptive to having my mind changed now that's Charlie's claimed; I doubt that there's another protective role after a CPR Doc claim only counterclaimed by scum, a one-shot doctor protect, and a bodyguard flip.

This

pretty much

nails why I am not unvoting Charlie.

I borrowed someone else's words without bothering to clarify my own specific opinion. Had I cared enough at the time to rehash in my own words what Nacho had said, maybe I would have pointed out that bodyguards don't really 'protect' in the same sense a doctor or commuter does. Maybe. Although it really wouldn't have changed anything. Even if you ignore the "bodyguard" portion, you have to admit the CPR Doc fakeclaim and one-shot doctor protect is more than enough protection to be wary of a commuter claim especially in a game that doesn't seem to be particularly heavy on the power roles.

[Ythan]

Batt I'm talking about players disregarding you suddenly for no good reason. If you're not going to participate in that conversation then I'm not going to spend the two seconds it would take to dig up a case on you from any number of players.