The Walking Dead Mafia! ( Game Over )

No Brains Here · Post Post #2775 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:38 am

In post 2774, sangres wrote:i am going to eat breakfast at 2pm. then I will play basketball. and then I will come home, and I will look in this game and make the post I want to make. if you allow ellibereth to hammer himself by then, then you miss all of our wonderful input in one giant post and you'll get a sad, disappointed look from me at postgame while Thor is getting a smug winky face with tears in his eyes.

dude. vig said he isn't going to nk you. you haven't been on a deathlist for quite some time

Thor665 · Post Post #2776 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:40 am

In post 2774, sangres wrote:i am going to eat breakfast at 2pm. then I will play basketball. and then I will come home, and I will look in this game and make the post I want to make. if you allow ellibereth to hammer himself by then, then you miss all of our wonderful input in one giant post and you'll get a sad, disappointed look from me at postgame while Thor is getting a smug winky face with tears in his eyes.

;`)

No Brains Here · Post Post #2777 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:43 am

eta: also no way are you always like "oh I am gonna die let me get a complete reads list out!!!"

@ aj

you play mafia like how old people drive. you are also playing ridiculously to your town meta which means I will probably spend and insane amount of time defending you.

Aj The Epic · Post Post #2778 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:02 am

I'm not sure what way I should take that comment. I play mafia in a style that works really well in smaller games, but haven't managed to figure these large games out because there are too many connections for someone who doesn't stay on the computer as much as I used to. But yes, this is me being town... although no one has ever seen me play such a large game as scum, so not much meta there to begin with.

No Brains Here · Post Post #2779 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:10 am

aj I was teasing you

meta isn't always about "oh when this person is town they do this or as scum they do this". sometimes it is, but it goes way beyond that. it is about how a person thinks, where their primary motivation lies for the reasons for doing what they are doing.

anyways what are some of your thoughts?

Amrun · Post Post #2780 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:11 am

hey, guys. aj is probably town for doggedly sticking to his meta read of nacho in face of mollie.

thx come again later

Aj The Epic · Post Post #2781 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:33 am

In post 2780, Amrun wrote:hey, guys. aj is probably town for doggedly sticking to his meta read of nacho in face of mollie.

thx come again later

Aj and Mollie argue constantly. It's null, if we didn't bicker, something would be wrong.

My thoughts basically consist of the fact that Eli is more reminiscent of the Stupendous Key lynch than anything else. I think better lynch cases have been made, but realistically the town seems to be giving themselves a 'long term' strong team over guessing around for scum right now. His claim seems to be taking heat but I really haven't analyzed the whole show to recognize names without faces.

I think the 'town block' is getting too big and you're letting people slip past you. The real town right now is NBH, OGML, Sangres, Amrun and Matt. But you all need to be consistent in reads, as Matt was ready to take NBH down for a claim.

I think Toog is someone we need to watch. In a multiball situation or a situation where Eli doesn't flip scum, that slot is suspect for doing way more character analysis than needed. Also means one scum team would have incredibly good fake claims verified by someone who seems to have a pretty deep knowledge of the series.

Thor is someone I can't read well, but I like to think him town. The one game I was in with him, I'm not sure if that was his scum meta or town meta because the town thought they were all traitors... So I'm just guessing.

Mastin has been really quiet and I think him to be scum. Him altering his meta to go after a scummy just doesn't seem like him... Plus, 'most enjoyable person' and 'most memorable moment' is pretty reserved for comedians (and nacho). I still think he's scum.

Other than that, I really don't think there's much to discuss that needs my input.

Amrun · Post Post #2782 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:52 am

yup, it's settled.

aj is Town (TM). suck on that, bitches.

Toogeloo · Post Post #2783 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:05 am

Flavor spec can be fun. You need to re-iso me though if you think I'm doing too much of it. I make sure I state actual cases first and foremost, and when I feel like chirping in some flavor, or if someone else is talking about flavor, I add my 2 cents on it then. I've maybe had 5 posts all game that focused specifically on flavor.

No Brains Here · Post Post #2784 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:33 am

In post 2781, Aj The Epic wrote:Aj and Mollie argue constantly. It's null, if we didn't bicker, something would be wrong.

^ town. I think scum aj would have let that comment slide cos he would have been all like okay, town read there, and then he would have moved on to other things cos he would have been thinking about other things such as the nk and d3 set up. he will probably argue over about some nitpicky little point that is only laterally related but again, town aj.

also We™ reserve the right to change our minds at a future date.

My thoughts basically consist of the fact that Eli is more reminiscent of the Stupendous Key lynch than anything else. I think better lynch cases have been made, but realistically the town seems to be giving themselves a 'long term' strong team over guessing around for scum right now. His claim seems to be taking heat but I really haven't analyzed the whole show to recognize names without faces.

I think the 2 lynches are very different. sk was a derp speedlynch on an easy target while subtley being pushed by scum and this one there is more thought behind it. even if on some small chance we are wrong it is still more organised than d1 and it gives the vc analysers meat to munch on.

I think the 'town block' is getting too big and you're letting people slip past you. The real town right now is NBH, OGML, Sangres, Amrun and Matt. But you all need to be consistent in reads, as Matt was ready to take NBH down for a claim.

explain your town read on sangres

I think Toog is someone we need to watch. In a multiball situation or a situation where Eli doesn't flip scum, that slot is suspect for doing way more character analysis than needed. Also means one scum team would have incredibly good fake claims verified by someone who seems to have a pretty deep knowledge of the series.

character analysis is something I actively sought out for engagement with him in order to solidify my read. I will not let him take the fall for that. why are you thinking that this is multiball.

Thor is someone I can't read well, but I like to think him town. The one game I was in with him, I'm not sure if that was his scum meta or town meta because the town thought they were all traitors... So I'm just guessing.

nearly every single post that thor has made I agree with. I mean nearly every post. this could mean 1 of 2 things:

1. thor is scum who thinks like town more than when he is town
2. thor is town and since this is the first time I have actively left him alone there is space to draw similarities of thought and it is a pleasant surprise that our approaches are not so radically different as I thought.

I am going with town cos that is what feels right at the mo.

Mastin has been really quiet and I think him to be scum. Him altering his meta to go after a scummy just doesn't seem like him... Plus, 'most enjoyable person' and 'most memorable moment' is pretty reserved for comedians (and nacho). I still think he's scum.

mastin worries me too cos he is so out of step. but I have noticed he tends to sit back at the beginning of the game and I think it is a null tell for him. I bet he does it as both alignments.

what do you think of metal and the competing wagon that was attempted on him? did any reactions stand out?

RedCoyote · Post Post #2785 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:41 am

I kind of skimmed over the last twenty pages because I was half-here during that time, but I consider myself fully caught up at this point. I've included my notes in here as I read over the game. These notes aren't necessarily intended for your consumption. They're my thoughts as I went through the game. Some of them are outdated, some are redundant, and there's no spell checking in here. You should only read it if you want a deeper insight as to where I am coming from in my reads. With those precautions out of the way:

Spoiler: Notes

In considering the best way to really frame this post, I think the most solid way to go is to treat it as though I am replacing in. I'll give the town three solid scumreads, all of which I'd be happy to lynch. As I've already made clear in this game, I am not the type that has to have my way or the highway, certainly not in a game this large. That's why I'm voting Elli and that's why I don't particularly care if he's the lynch today. He isn't my biggest scumread, but there's no reason for me to get in front of this lynch. I don't play that way.

My biggest townreads are

Desperado

and

Toog

by a country mile. Desperado has been consistently asking the right questions at the right times. He's one of the few players to really come on strongly against pitoli, a player that I find to be extremely scummy (more on that later). He is always engaging in multiple conversations, but isn't afraid to sell his ideas when he sees the opportunity. Toog, unlike the sour reputation of IIoA and rolefishing that some players have pegged him for, has been genuinely working to help this town move forward. Toog has been playing like the anti-Sugar, which is definitely a good thing. Him, Amrun, and mollie have been the only three to really try and make sense of the flavor, and their contributions have seemed fairly positive. Toog is the lead in this though, and I've found his opinions insightful and not influenced by twisting the story to fit a certain paradigm. No one else comes close to these reads, and barring a report or something, I will absolutely defend these two players for the foreseeable future.

mastin

and

Thor

are both pretty steady townreads as well. I'm a bit more shaky with them, however. mastin has been clear, concise, and as aggressive as his few posts have allowed him to be. He's focusing on AD, a player that I am not particularly fond of myself, and trying to balance out the silliness from some of the players like Matt, Sugar, and, to a lesser extent, Titus. A possible negative is him being rather one note. It's tough for me to criticize him on this given that I am guilty of the same thing, but I would suspect a townmastin to shop his vote around a bit more than he has, especially when others have pointedly asked him to. Thor I have trouble reading. Aside from the arrogance, I enjoy his playstyle and ferocity. He always strikes me as very intellectual but with an aggressive bend. I see that here, and it feels good. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty, and he's willing to stand up to both Matt and NBH when they were trying to shout down everyone else. Possible negatives just exist in me not feeling confident as to whether this really does make him town, but I am going with that interpretation for now.

Amrun

and

OGML

round out the remainder of my stable townreads, both of them rely heavily on their claims for support. OGML has simply been drowned out by the level of silliness in this thread, but a lot of his reactions have read as sincere. His JD/Titus attack was a game changer. I think OGML stands to gain a great deal from a Titus scumflip, but none of this really shakes at the possibility that he's an SK. Do I think he is? No, I don't. I think it's a possibility, but it's very hard for me to believe he saw claiming this early as his only out if he were an SK. Amrun has been up and down. I think she was the first one to come up with creditable ties to chesskid. While this isn't huge, it's noteworthy and earns her town points, especially given how she took what chess said to make townreads rather than scum ones. That was innovative and impressionable, I think. Her questions are solid and show that she has real goals in mind. What worries me a bit about her is her instance that she's obviously town. She's seemingly always trying to slip this in at oddest of times. There was one exchange where she got emotional on four or five consecutive occasions over players not viewing her as town. May have been just goofing around, but it didn't sit right with me nonetheless.

Although I don't really townread

Matt

or

NBH

, but I have zero desire to vote or lynch them. This sentiment relies completely on their claims (multiple in Matt's case). I don't townread these players, but it probably doesn't mean they're scum. It's probably just that I am not really coming to terms with the way they have played this game so far. They are ostracizing the rest of the playerbase in different ways, notably by overposting, passive-aggression, and acting out. It's important for me to say this because I don't want to have to field questions about why I may not vote Matt even though I think he's scummy. I am considerate of the fact, but I think this slot may hold a greater potential to help this town alive than dead. The lack of a counterclaim to NBH is really foolproof. It's very likely that her character (Michonne) is in this game. The claim does make some sense, especially after the Mod's intervention, but I really despise the way NBH has been trying to use it to get her way.

Metal Sonic

is probably my single biggest scumread not influenced in anyway whatsoever by other players/claims. pitoli's immediate reactions to the start of Day 2 were completely out there. Allowing me to begin with the fact that this slot had very little input during the first day at all. Both posts on the first day were abysmal. "why are people voting Desperado?" and "No idea who the scum is. I'll come back later." Let me deconstruct both of these before I get to the real meat that is her Day 2 play. The first post holds up a player and asks why he is getting votes. My immediate reaction to this post? You tell me. What's wrong with Desperado getting votes? Who should get votes? Is there someone sinister pushing these votes? She never comes back to this. This sticks out like a sore thumb because she doesn't really care why people are voting Desperado; it's just something for her to say and pretend to make an impact. If she really had cared about Desperado, then there was no reason she couldn't have followed it up. You cannot give her an out for this post anyway you slice it. Now, if you couple this post with the second one, you're left with an even more perplex picture as to what town thoughts would possibly going through her mind. She has no idea who the scum is, but what was the Desperado question all about then? If she didn't see it as scummy, then why is she questioning it, especially so early in the game? But let's move up to Day 2, because I could probably abide this if I had felt as though she put it behind her and really took a fresh look at the game. Post 755 is a useless piece of filler. This is a complete throwaway post that tells us nothing about pitoli's unique perspective at all. Further, I'd argue it's written in such a way to sound intelligent and analytical, but it comes off as sounding nothing like pitoli trying to get to the bottom of the wagon at all. It sounds utterly fake. Then you go to post 761, and you can only ask yourself why does she persistently not give reads? Why is she talking in such vague generalities? If that was such a bad wagon as she claims, why is she not pointing the finger at someone? In post 764, she claims she has made it to page 15, but by this time, StupendousKey was at, like, L-6. The wagon was halfway built. Remember, the wagon she said was capitalized by scum? Yet of her three scumreads (John Doe, Me, and Sugar Cain), none of us were on the StupendeousKey lynch at this time. What does that tell you? That this is fake. At best she's making it up as she goes along. In post 965, her intent reads about a subtle as a bull in a china shop. Her question about OGML's posting frequency is completely seethrough. She's rhetorically asking about why he's posting so much in a negative sense, but she doesn't vote him or ask him anything specific. In fact, she hasn't used her vote at all so far! Lastly, I'm not big on meta, but if you are, you really ought to check out pitoli's play in Mini 1464 to compare with her here. I promise it is very short (just like her play here). Similarities: 1) Very little posting. 2) Lack of votes (0 in this game versus 1 in that game). 3) Questions she asks without ever following up on or effectively pursuing. 4) Rhetorical questions that are plain as day (and the lack of followthrough to vote someone on the back of them).

So that's all for pitoli. Metal Sonic is less of a sure thing in my book, but he's had is share of arguably scummy posts. An overdefensive post 2300: This post shows little concern for actual scumhunting and is a just blind anger over Amrun's potential justified vote. His claim in post 2491 reads as though he's kind of testing the waters. He had no pressure to claim. I doubt the veracity of it, honestly. Either he was just trolling or trying to throw people off. I've never played with this scummer, so I am not sure what exactly he'd be prone to do. Given pitoli's play, I'm inclined to distrust him.

Another substantial scumread of mine is

ActionDan

. AD has done some solid town stuff, but I think he's also done some really questionable stuff too. I'll try to approach him as fair and balanced as I can, because he ought to get credit for what I think he has done that looks town. Additionally, and Amrun/Desperado have both touched on this, AD is part of a pair with Elli that I really think contains at least one non-Mafia player due to one of chesskid's post 731. Starting with post 460, we see an already meek AD that has slipped in a comment about understanding the StupendousKey wagon, but it doesn't exhibit any willingness to commit to a read on it one way or the other. AD isn't voting here. He could've voted StupendousKey here, but he chose not to. That's important, I think, because it setups a pattern of being disengaged that is only broken at certain, unsavory times. Consistent with the pattern, notice how he makes a short post in post 578 where he calls out three scumreads (including StupendousKey). I applaud him for being open, but not for his continued lack of vote. He even goes so far as to state that he's "up for voting SK whenever" as though he is looking for Matt's (or someone's) permission. He does the same thing in post 726. Really we get very little from AD after that. He votes pitoli, which is good, but he's just staying in the background (other players, myself included, are just as guilty of this, but it needs to be said). In post 1564, we have kind of an empty, blah type post. It took mastin criticizing his play to really get anything out of AD that wasn't "I'll vote if someone asks me to" or sheeping. Additionally, he's critical of mastin's post, but he doesn't really elaborate beyond "that's a scummastin post". In contrast with this, I actually like AD's post 1742 where he pushed on NBH. But then he started to get worse again with crap like post 1825 which is clearly narrow-minded and could be read as though it was said with an agenda. Obviously the method with which people die has very important relevance. This was an over-the-top defense of NBH. So I am not liking AD's relationships with NBH or Elli. AD seems bent on slowing this game down, and I read him as a very likely candidate for scum.

Sugar Cain

has been festering in my mind as an unhealthy mix of a scum and anti-town read. The first thing to note is that this slot has claimed as a roleblocker, which gives me real pause in pushing this slot prematurely, but short of a godfather, a roleblocker is probably one of the most common scum roles around. It's kind of a wash. Post 386 is the first post that stuck out to me as scummy. This reads as Sugar wanting to have her cake and eat it too. She says she doesn't like the speed of the wagon, but she helped mobilize it. She says she doesn't like how SK isn't defending himself, but she says she still doesn't like him. I don't even know how "not defending yourself" translates into something a town player would do, but that's why this post is scummy. Post 507 is too emotional and too tag-alongish. Maybe it was the emoticon that put it over the top, but I just dislike this whole comment. Another thing is that this is the second time she has said Toog is scum without really addressing him directly or elaborating. Post 667 is just flatout confusing. It was about this point when players should realize that Sugar often just posts to be posting. A great many of the posts that come from Sugar are fluffy and ultimately serve to do nothing more than clutter the thread with random emotions and thoughts that often go nowhere. A good example is her deplorable "test" on pitoli. In what should've been a relatively simple questioning of pitoli, Sugar somehow managed to completely fumble it in a way I cannot fathom as being anything but anti-town. I talk about this more in my notes, but if you look at post 785 where the incompetence really comes to a head, Sugar somehow manages to 1) Create a test for pitoli. 2) Have Matt call her out for it. 3) Respond to Matt that it is, in fact, a test. 4) Have pitoli respond to it. 5) And after all this, still screw up on the player that "hasn't posted at all"? It's a comedy of errors. Post 864 is a good question that Desperado ignored for some reason, but then you've got scummy stuff like post 889 which excuses the slot for not using their vote. I've already talked about earlier in this thread how bad post 993 is, but it bears repeating. This is the kind of post that really wants me to push for a lynch on this slot though. Posts like that are incredibly harmful to the town and get us nowhere. No one should be subjected to hearing a hydra bicker over internal problems, but Sugar is a repeat offender. Post 1115 and post 2141 have these traits of paranoia that is another thing this slot is known for. It has me leaning back toward a scumread, as does their persistent, wrongheaded push of Toog throughout this game.

Lastly, I'd be content with a

Titus

lynch without getting into a long paragraph over him. The main reason revolves around OGML's catch however. Without that, I don't particularly see the slot as noteworthy. He's done good and bad things, but a lot of his posts remind me of Desperado's input. I think OGML found a worthy slip, but I appreciate Titus' willingness to argue for himself. I don't buy into the idea that he had so little to do with his other hydra head that he wasn't even aware as to why Wayne voted the way he did, but other than that I find myself liking his spunk.

tl;dr = Metal Sonic is scum for pitoli's aimless questions, replacing out, and a strange claim. AD is scum for working to slow the game down, not being independent, and appearing at opportune times. Sugar is anti-town/scum for posting too much fluff, acting over emotional, and being flatout confusing. If I didn't mention a player, they didn't leave a lasting impression on me and could probably go either way (bork, Pere, Aj, Elli, sangres, TIP).

[

Town

]-------Desperado--Toog------mastin--Thor----Amrun---OGML-NBH--TIP--bork-[

∙

]-sangres--Aj-Matt--Pere---Elli---Titus-SC--AD---------MS------[

Scum

]

RedCoyote · Post Post #2786 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:44 am

Oh, one other thing, Metal Sonic, you might as well name claim.

Desperado · Post Post #2787 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:28 am

Spoiler: 20,000 Words That Everyone Needs to Read

In post 2785, RedCoyote wrote:I kind of skimmed over the last twenty pages because I was half-here during that time, but I consider myself fully caught up at this point. I've included my notes in here as I read over the game. These notes aren't necessarily intended for your consumption. They're my thoughts as I went through the game. Some of them are outdated, some are redundant, and there's no spell checking in here. You should only read it if you want a deeper insight as to where I am coming from in my reads. With those precautions out of the way:

Notes

Trust Fund = Andrea/townie killed (suffocated ... mafia?)
chesskid = Shumpert/goon killed (walkers ... NBH?)
Majiffy = Rick/Redirector killed (sniper ... ogml?)
Sugar = "we are a role-blocker silly"
Amrun = Glenn
Toog = Maggie
StupendusKey = Oscar/VT
JohnDoe = softclaim (#753)
Matt = Another PR claim (#1444)/(#1827)
OMGL = Merle Dixon/Vigilante
Titus = Morales/VT (#1697)
DGB = Michonne/Vig (#1850)
Metal Sonic = VT (#2491 real?)
sangres = Tyreese/VT (#2715)

mastin 164 wrote:[L-6] Desperado: Sangres, Mattp, borkjerfkin, Amrun, Sugar Cain, StupendousKey.

The first five votes are all professional zombie-killers, who work well as a unit. The sixth voter, on the other hand, who brought Desperado half way to being lynched, not so much. Regardless of Desperado's alignment, there be scum.
I like this comment, and I can see why StupendousKey caught the most support yesterday.

---

Toog 170 wrote:Is this a perspective slip
You're kind of late to the party in pointing this out.

---

sangres 184 wrote:Turkeloo is p town for seeking mason comments.

mastin's probably town.
I like your additions so far.

---

Toog 246 wrote:Not seeking a Mason partner btw, just wanted a way to break some ice. Hell, you could have Gleen on your scum safe list. Doesn't matter. First day of the game, was willing to give any person who claimed Glenn a pass just because my role was Maggie.
I kind of like this. This is out of the blue, and it makes me feel good about both of the player slots (Amrun & Toog). Given the flips we've had so far and the flavor, these are both main characters that I think would have town roles associated with them.

---

Desperado 363 wrote:I'll lynch Jon Doe today too
Huh, this seems kind of random in a bad way.

Desperado 375 wrote:Walk me through how it wasn't a misrep. When he said "I didn't like it" he was referring to my reaction to matt's gambit. You bolded the last sentence, in which he said the gambit helped town, as if he was simultaneously saying he didn't like it but it benefitted town. What you did was the very definition of a misrep.
I like this point though.

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Sugar 386 wrote:and, as much as I don't like SK right now, I really don't like how fast the wagon is going, and I really, really do not like how they aren't really doing anything to keep it from actually happening
This is scummy.

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AD 460 wrote:Having read up to post #124, I understand this wagon
Yet you didn't vote...?

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Sugar 507 wrote:I think they are all town Sans Toogers but IDK if it can be called a block because mollie is being a bitch and I don't know if I can deal, and matty is thinking I'm scum
This is over the top.

---

NBH 509 wrote:Toog (something similar I picked up from Toog's "searching masons" shenanigans that smelled of lyncher or some other garbage role)
Good point.

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Desperado 569 wrote:Oh my christ can someone vig this bullshit tonight
You took the words right out of my mouth.

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AD 578 wrote:Ok. I read.
I still don't get why you aren't voting.

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JD 584 wrote:This is getting ridiculous. Either we have a hyperactive town or this thread is being bogged down deliberately by scum.
Lol, no, this is not scum "bogging down" the thread. What gave you that idea? This is a bunch of people messing around, alignment-neutral.

---

Sugar 667 wrote:pitoli could be scum but it's like 2 posts so don't bother reading that?
Huh?

---

JD 683 wrote:Looking at motivation here. I see no town motivation. I see exactly what he alluded to ~ gambit. It works to give him town cred while at the same time looking for (and finding?) a PR for NK. Claim yourself is fine, stupid IMO, but fine. Coaxing someone who could easily not be vanilla to do the same...nah. Why isn't this a hot topic?
In a sense, you are right. I kind of agree with you and NBH when y'all say there is something funny going on with Toog. I'm not convinced Toog is doing something sinister yet though, it seems too wholesome. I don't really want to dig too deep into it, but suffice it to say that I will give Toog the benefit of the doubt. I usually read him as scum when he's not (same with Amrun, ironically). I like the way you are thinking though.

JD 716 wrote:Hey bork

A four bragger and you hit for the cycle!
I seriously lol'd at this.

---

Matt 734 wrote:RC considering my claim was bs please tell me how that affects your previous quotes of me
I'm not going to go NBH's route with this. I don't think it's a scum thing necessarily. What I do think is scummy is you acting as though you shouldn't have to claim flavor. Even that wouldn't be too bad, but you had the audacity to go off on Desperado for asking you about it. You knew your claim was fake yet you still criticized someone that was asking you valid questions about it.

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pitoli 755 wrote:Whether scum started driving or not there were townies on the wagon.
What an utterly useless filler comment to make consistent with your scum meta. Replacing out isn't a good sign either for this slot.

pitoli 761 wrote:I really, really didn’t understand the StupendousKey lynch, no matter how many times their posts and the justification for it by other players. I’m thinking scum got to capitalize on the speed of the thread since nobody was going back to check how baseless the SK wagon was??
Okay, if this is your opinion, why are you not breaking the wagon down for everyone? Explaining who the most guilty parties are?

pitoli 764 wrote:other people leaving me with stronger town impressions.
How is this at all consistent with your claim that the SK wagon was subject to "scum capitalizing on the speed of the game"?

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Sugar 785 wrote:How do you have a town-read on someone who hasn't posted at all?
How is it possible that you:

1) Create a test for pitoli.
2) Have Matt call you out for it.
3) Respond to Matt that it is, in fact, a test.
4) Have pitoli respond to it.
5) And after all this, you still screw up on the player that "hasn't posted at all"?

I think I'll give you town point for this because I cannot imagine you being so incompetent as scum.

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Amrun 801 wrote:At least one of Dan/Ellie town
Great point. I don't know how overall helpful this is, but I love that you approached this from the angle of one of them being town rather than being scum. I agree with your 100%. At least one of them is town. Do you think we should spare a lynch on either of them because of this?

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NBH 807 wrote:Well that's 1/2 for No Brains Here. We had a scum read on chesskid (mostly because his customary policy DGB-vote lacked aggression and conviction, like he was afraid of pushing it too hard). Trust Fund was town read by mollie and scum read by DGB.
I thought y'all had Majiffy as town. Why not mention this?

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Desperado 829 wrote:The reason is they were scum yesterday and they're still scum today.
Although I like your vote, you should've explained it better here. This is kind of shady. There's nothing stopping you from fully explaining why you have a scumread on pitoli here.

That said, you made it up with your post 846, so I retract the above.

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Sugar 864 wrote:So you think its a fakeclaim?
Des, why did you ignore this?

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Matt 876 wrote:I don't think I would have softclaimed a PR to DGB in the context I did as scum

But what do I know?

>Actually saying this to try and score townpoints

---

Sugar 889 wrote:I'm not really interested in rushing the day like you derpwads did yesterday. I know that our vote doesn't mean he'll be lynched ASAP but I also don't see a reason to move it right this second.
So scummy. God forbid you put your vote to use. Lest you forget, you were on that wagon too.

---

OGML 893 wrote:"You derpwads?" Nice job passing the buck. Your vote counted just as much as everyone else's in getting Key lynched, but you're trying to abdicate responsibility. And now you won't join a wagon on someone you've been sniping at for a whole page because they're at L-6 and you don't want to rush things?
Agree 100%

OGML 898 wrote:You just admitted to knowing Trust Fund was the mafia kill.
Very interesting. I missed this. This is a solid catch, I think.

---

JD 935 wrote:She did flavor analysis. That's not a slip genius. You slipped though.
Lol, why are you panicking so much?

---

Aj 947 wrote:Sure, sure... because good mods let you hunt scum by their own flavor, right? "Actual analysis" off of flavor is probably in my list for stupidest things I've ever heard playing mafia. Flavor is an entity which you can read if you enjoy reading it, nothing more.
Good comment.

---

NBH 963 wrote:You are trying to frame him because he's the scum's designated easy lynch for today.
Bad rationale and an overall bad post. You don't explain why JD is an "easy" lynch, as if that's even a scumtell anyways (which it isn't). Your "vowing to lurk" point is laughably bad in the face of all the players that haven't really given a lot of content (myself included). This is a bad, bad post.

---

pitoli 965 wrote:Why is OMGL posting so much after his single post yesterday?
Lol, this is like a bad rhetorical question in a poor attempt to get OGML more votes.

---

Desperado 979 wrote:The dumb wagon that you claim to have known was dumb as it was happening but didn't do anything to stop?
#REKT

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In post 993, Sugar Cain wrote:Jesus Christ Nero, what are you doing?

Matty is town, stop that
Disgustingly bad post.

---

NBH 1025 wrote:I was saying that OMGL is scum for not considering that Jon Doe might have information NOT ABOUT THE SCUM KILL, BUT ABOUT THE VIG'S KILL. He just wanted to frame Jon Doe. That is not a townie mindset.
Nah, too much of a stretch. Nice try in trying to justify this after the fact, lol.

---

bork 1050 wrote: I could see someone initially making the argument OGML made, and then going back and thinking about it more and realizing the argument is not sound.
There's something very slimy about your posts, but I can't put my finger on it. Just, like, you always come in to pick up the scraps or something.

---

Thor 1077 wrote:Sugar Cain - why do you think I'm voting him?
Lol.

---

Sugar 1115 wrote:Well when you ask "why shouldn't I vote you" it sounds a lot like you are still considering us an option to vote
Hah, what is this crazy paranoia? Why are you constantly freaking out everytime you post?

---

Amrun 1133 wrote:Srs question about why I'm not in the bloc :'(
That you said this twice has me skeptical as to your motivations.

---

Matt 1134 wrote:Like seriously, people are going to come into this game and call brains, myself, and sugar scum. Because it's easy. Period.
That may be, but that's not on the players, that's on you three. Especially when you're sitting here acting butthurt over mollie for God only knows what.

---

Amrun 1136 wrote:I'm so obvtown
STOP CALLING YOURSELF OBVTOWN IN A NON-SARCASTIC WAY. I hate it. Your claim only carries you so far, babe.

---

JD 1178 wrote:Correct, or I would have advised her not to because flavor doesn't apply here.

---

Desperado 1207 wrote:Why is everyone saying the like/agree with my pitoli case but not voting it
No idea.

Desperado 1208 wrote:My pitoli case is much better than your OGML case and I'm annoyed that I asked you to comment on it and all you could muster was "I've never played with them so i dunno."
You are probably the most townie player here, btw.

---

Matt 1244 wrote:AND you're saying it's derp that I'm on OGML and yet I don't have a good read of OGML so why would I NOT be on him right now if I don't have a clear scumread? It's day 2 and day 1 was 24 hours long. I'm trying to sift through 20+ players and figure out their alignment. It's not easy especially when the majority of players have 10 or less posts and have been completely ignored.
This post of Matt's reads as genuinely perturbed.

---

Thor 1271 wrote:'We didn't read your posts, because you're scum.'

'Your reasoning doesn't matter, because OGML is scum.'

'You're saying scum wouldn't scumhunt? What do you know about the setup, scum?'

'Thorscum defending OGMLscum, scumtastic!'

I missed too much fun in this game.

---

Toog 1292 wrote:Shane as SK and Gov Mafia makes the most sense to me at the moment.
This is good, valuable analysis of the flavor so far (in the sense of which kill would be more likely to belong to what roles).

---

Thor 1329 wrote:Wake up people, we're posting a mile a minute and doing and accomplishing nothing.
This seems obvious to me trying to enter the game itself but being stymied by the weight of all this trivial back and forth. I think it's because it's summer and some of the players in this game have all day to play on their computers, but I cannot jump right into this game. I certainly would feel the same pressure upon checking the site, seeing that there is 8 - 12 new pages in a game, and being immediately turned off (regardless of alignment).

---

JD 1330 wrote:Thor, why the heavy defense of OMGL? Offering sheep suspects, telling people who their votes should be on. Assuming we'll fail at our lynch and then turn around and sheep him. Something ain't right with this one.
I've been kind of holding on to a townread of you for a while, but this post really shoves me in the other direction. I want to like you, but I am really uncomfortable with this post. You do realize NBH is doing many of the same things you are harping on Thor for here, right? This reads to me like a Muslim telling a Jew to that his side is guilty of bombing his people. Well, yeah, but so are you. I would've thought you'd be able to see through this.

---

Toog 1410 wrote:I feel like, with 20 players in the game, conversations have been saturated on like 4 of them. I nearly had an aneurysm reading 20 pages of John Doe or OGML are scum more votes pl0x posts.
You ought to come in a push it more.

---

sangres 1420 wrote:Okay so first of all I'm guessing that Elli AND AD are scum. They would have more fun as scum together and I'm pretty sure they would've talked about the quickhammer gambit in thread instead of letting chesskid goad them into it after Elli already promised the quickhammer and AD declared intent to hammer.
No, I disagree. I don't think this makes too much sense, especially given the low amount of posts for all three of them today.

sangres 1431 wrote:Could you be a little less subtle and tell me why you're reading him town?
I think he's being sarcastic.

---

Thor 1434 wrote:The game really isn't that big, people are just being ludicrous.
I am in multiple games and I am not taken by the style of rapid, high-levels of posting. I really only stayed in the game due to the fact that the mechanic seemed interesting and I liked some of the players, but I would take myself out if I could go back in time.

Given that I have made a commitment and already invested into 60 pages of it, I will stick around though.

---

In post 1463, Thor665 wrote:omebody calling this a scumtell in three...two...one...
It is, actually. I just got out of a game where scumpitoli replaced out due to the fact that she was facing too much pressure.

---

Desperado 1464 wrote:No that's about the towniest way to replace out I can think of. Scum don't privately ask to be replaced.
Nah, it doesn't make a lick of difference whether it is private or public.

---

Toog 1469 wrote:Claiming ActionDan town, and considering Elli scum now but not wanting to vote him.

Unvote;
Vote: sangres
This is a pretty solid post, strangely. You're really speaking to me as town, Toog. I'm a little weirded out by this. I almost get the feeling I should vote you for this.

Also, this post is comedy gold. It's such a great screenshot. I also love how Steve is looking up at your Avatar. It's like it's actually you!

---

Aj 1499 wrote:Yes, Amrun plans to make it so.
Whoa. Where the heck did this come from? I don't like the randomness of this.

---

mastin 1516 wrote:Basically, via a townbloc and by POE'ing the names not on there. Now, granted, obviously we'll still be aiming to lynch scum, but the important bit is the townbloc.
All in all, I like this post. I wish you would've been more vocal about what separates AD from all of your other reads.

---

Titus 1520 wrote:Why does a list make someone town?
Decent question, but I don't like that you didn't follow up with your own analysis.

---

Matt 1555 wrote:Things only town would say

A brief How To by Nero
Nope.

---

AD 1564 wrote:Also If mastin scum I suspect buddies are all in bottom half of that tier list maybe barring one.

Also I think that post more likely to come from scum than town mastin
This is so empty. How come it took someone voting you to get you to post anything? Why are you so critical of mastin's post without really giving us anything to chew on?

---

Toog 1618 wrote:Honestly, why don't we just have Titus state yes or no if he was responsible for the Majiffy kill at this point. I know one of the No Brains slot told him not to claim it, but doesn't most of the argument on both sides hinge on whether or not Titus' slot killed someone that night, and he's already claimed to have not killed Trust Fund.
I don't get this. What difference does this make? Does he have some sort of posting requirement to tell the truth or something?

---

bork 1621 wrote:But OGML saw blood in the water and tried to nail JD to the wall for it without considering other reasons JD may have had to say it.
Come on, bork. What other reason, seriously? That they were going on flavor? Titus can't even articulate the rationale behind it. And don't give me this "the other head did it". Hydras that aren't talking to one another is not something I believe at all, especially when it comes to voting.

---

OGML 1632 wrote:I am
Merle Dixon, Vigilante
and I killed Majiffy last night.
Overall, I'm much more comfortable with this claim that I am with Milton. I can see Merle as a Vig (although I could also very much see him as third party). That said, he is confirmable and the town can use this.

---

Matt 1647 wrote:Wait, let's just make sure we're being rational here. Titus came immediately into the day with the comment about a TF mafia kill. TF ended up being the mafia kill. That's incredibly scummy, right?
Yes, and I like this post and your general reaction to OGML's claim.

---

sangres 1650 wrote:Nacho could probably handle it, but I'd slit my wrists if I were on a scumteam with waynegg/titus.
Cute, but that doesn't speak to your alignment at all.

---

Titus 1692 wrote:
Mod: Can we get a prod on GuyinFreezer?
Lol, I like how Amrun asks you about you not voting anyone and this is your response. What the heck?

Titus 1709 wrote:I'm Morales.
This fits as a VT, it would also probably make a decent fakeclaim.

---

Desperado 1724 wrote:Why isn't anyone talking about how hollow No Brains' OGML push is now?

DGB's case revolves around the fact that OGML never considered the possibility that Titus was the vig.

In turn, DGB never considered the possibility that
OGML
was the vig.

On a scale of 1 to cognitive dissonance, how 10 is that?
Although this is a good point, it doesn't really make me suspect NBH much more. It's a good point because it should spur NBH to comment, but I NBH could've very easily been tunnelling as town.

---

AD 1742 wrote:Why did you not immediately vote him then? instead of asking mattp if he was ccing?
First good point AD has made this game, I think.

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Matt 1777 wrote:Actually I CCd it pretty damn blatantly
Name?

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sangres 1815 wrote:Why were you pressuring multiple players to role claim?

Explain how that was a good thing.
Uh, so he knows who to shoot...?

---

NBH 1816 wrote:We shot chesskid
I do not get this... you shot chesskid with zombies?

---

AD 1825 wrote:Venmar confirmed flavor don't matter for kills
LOL, NO. Is this serious? Mod obviously just meant there is no clues in the flavor text itself.

---

NBH 1850 wrote:We are Michonne. We send walkers.
Two things about this that don't sit well with me. If you killed chesskid with your walkers, then what did the NPC walkers do last night? Are you arguing that it didn't kill anyone?

The second thing is that Michonne's walkers have their jaws taken out. They cannot rip anyones throats out. Michonne uses them to get around, not for attacking. This is a fakeclaim or Michonne is a third party, I think.

But if they were third party, why would they claim? Hmmm... it still doesn't seem town at all.

---

Sugar 1891 wrote:
vote:Matt P?
Horrible post.

---

Desperado 1905 wrote:None of this had to happen. You guys could have kept your mouth shut and killed him tonight. Why didn't you?
This. This is what town NBH would've done.

---

NBH 1908 wrote:(1) He might have some power like BP - why else would scum claim vig???
(2) We're pretty sure we found the SK and that's who we wanted to shoot tonight.
1) How would a BP protect against a zombie bite to the throat, lol? Also, why not just shoot him twice?
2) What? So you are saying someone besides OGML is the SK? Why didn't you just focus your attacks on that person and kill OGML during the night...

NBH 1945 wrote:(1) Titus is town, we wanted to avoid a mislynch.
(2) Scum fakeclaiming vig is rare, we thought OGML may be BP so that we couldn't kill him tonight and our shot isn't guaranteed.
(3) We had plans to target the player we deduced is the SK.
1) You don't know Titus is anything. If OGML is an SK as you say, then what does he know about Titus' alignment?
2) You could've shot him twice if you were so sure.
3) Again, you are not being clear who the SK is you are referring to. If it's OGML, then this doesn't make sense. If it isn't OGML, why not just say who it is?

---

Mod 1950 wrote:
- Yes. Like I said, flavour is irrelevant, but in the case of deaths to the horde, the flavour will make it obvious for which people died to it. ( deaths that are described as death to a "walker" for example )
This lends creditability to NBH, and I want to believe Michonne is town, but a lot of things aren't adding up for me. Who is this SK read they have? Why are they afraid to share it? Why would a BP stop a zombie kill? Can they influence the hoarde every night? Is it a percentage thing? Michonne's zombies don't have teeth/jaws.

---

AD 1952 wrote:How likely is it that there could be a role that influences the people zombies kill + a town vig independent of that?
This is a question that should've been asked a long time ago.

---

NBH 1957 wrote:We can try to herd the zombie horde to our target, no guarantee this will work. And dear god forgive me, I just noticed - there is a note saying that we may or may not be the sole proprietors of this power.
This is too vague... you don't have like a percentage chance or something like that?

NBH 1976 wrote:OMGL's kill wasn't walker-related so his role doesn't work like ours at all.

Why is that?
Because your two kills don't necessarily have anything to do with one another? Merle never would be able to influence zombies. With Michonne, I can see that point of view, but I still have questions.

---

Toog 1980 wrote:For two, she kept walkers with her, but she destroyed their capability of attacking other players.
Finally! Toog gets more townpoints.

---

NBH 1997 wrote:tell me what you think of this: merle is the traitor
Nah, doesn't make much sense. I could buy Andrea as a traitor, or maybe that father/son duo. Merle doesn't really fit the bill, I think. He was kind of forced into his situation.

NBH 2004 wrote:why do you think that ogml has to be the SK? cos he is claiming he has a nk?
Y'all keep implying this... who is the SK read you have then? And where did the third kill come from?

NBH 2017 wrote:It seems strange to me that we are townies with a killing role (even if not 100% predictable, that's still a town killing role) that appears to function INDEPENDENTLY of a "straight up 100% success rate vigilante" since both OGML and us successfully dispatched our targets last night.
In a large game? It doesn't seem strange to me. Especially given that we have no proof that there's an SK here, just a bunch of speculation on your part.

NBH 2024 wrote:where did I say that there was another SK?
Because you are flipflopping on whether OGML is an SK or scum!

NBH 2026 wrote:it wasn't until the very end of last season that he finally did something positive for the group.
What are you talking about "very end"? For at least 4 or 5 episodes he was at the prison! Then he took Michonne to go kill her because he assumed that's what Rick wanted and ended up letting her go too.

---

Titus 2069 wrote:Brain's flavor analysis is persuasive and the so called vig is deliberately shooting active players. Shooting n1should be reserved for lurkers or people who are known scum. Notice OMGL never said why Majiffy was scummy just merely he was the scummiest active player.
Even if I agree with everything you said here, how exactly does this mean that OGML isn't a vig?

Titus 2082 wrote:Flavor wouldn't be totally irrelevant when the host recommended players be familiar with the TV show Walking Dead.
Eh, fair point. It may just mean that they'd enjoy it/appreciate it more though.

---

mastin 2086 wrote:Furthermore, beyond the meta, there's the (lack of) content in them; his posting is largely shallow and empty. Heck, his entire reason for voting me is very largely OMGUS in nature, because I voted him. Of all my scumreads, none are stronger than my scumread on him.
I don't really accept this. Not a lot of people are clamoring for your AD read, so maybe you're not really putting the effort in? I read AD as scum too, but I wouldn't do it on the back of something like this. This is just kind of weak.

mastin 2086 wrote:Meaning, he already knew. Meaning, he had access to that information. Meaning, he's scum.
This is much more salient, but I still kind of disagree. Maybe it's because I have the luxury of hindsight, maybe it's because I don't have as emotional of a connection to this game as a lot of the other players do, maybe it's because I know the flavor, maybe it's because I bothered to go back and read over the setup rules after NBH claimed... but this was all kind of common sense. AD read NBH as town and OGML as scum prior to NBH's claim. Of course he's going to come in with that bias intact and look for reasons to keep this belief strong.

I mean, I say all this having just reacted negatively to NBH, but as cautious as I am of her claim, my understanding of it is fluid. Honestly, I probably don't see the scum rationale for her to claim it. It would be a bit too risky for too little potential upside.

---

NBH 2102 wrote:yes. you are. there is no way in hell ogml is town. unless you think town has 2 vigs.
But you're not really a vig though... Your supposed night action relies on luck as best as I can figure out.

NBH 2112 wrote:why are you misrepping and trying to discredit me?
How is he misrepping you? You're the one that keeps calling yourself a vig.

---

sangres 2128 wrote:Raise your right hand and swear that as vig you've never targeted someone you intentionally didn't mention during the game day.
Good point.

---

Des 2138 wrote:I think the best you could argue is that it clears one as town. It certainly doesn't make them both town. If I had to pick one as town I'd say Dan.
Amrun mentioned this earlier and I am inclined to go with it as well. Unfortunately Elli he wound up getting wagonned, so if he flips town then this is kind of pointless. Still, it's solid information that you can bank on.

---

Sugar 2141 wrote:
Mollie/DGB, claim your ROLE name NOW!
Lol, fake.

Sugar 2167 wrote:it's pretty damn fucking obvious that we are playing around and using it as a means to look like you are contributing when, really you aren't is just as anti-town as us talking to each other in thread.
Obvious hell. You are arguing with your head in the confines of the game over a read. That is unacceptable play. As I explained, how is a player supposed to read that? If I say that you have a townread on Matt, then one head will say "Nope, look at this vote". If I say you have a scumread on Matt, then the other head will say "Nope, that was the other head...".

So the normal player is trapped because you can flipflop on a moment's notice and just always blame it on a this head or that head.

What's more, I can't even say it's scummy because you think arguing with your hydra in the thread is a good thing, lol. As if this game needs more posts.

---

TIP 2176 wrote:Sugar and RC and OGML and Thor have PRs
This is scummy.

---

Toog 2210 wrote:I think suffocating someone is just as generic a killing flavor as shooting someone through the head. If anyone was going to suffocate another player though, it'd probably be more likely to be done by the Governor or Shane, or possibly Milton, if we are talking strictly from a flavor perspective since Shumpert and Martinez are mostly always seen using automatic weapons.
I agree with this. Further, I like your tl;dr a lot, haha.

---

Sugar 2260 wrote:VOTE: Toogoloo
Crappy naked vote in a (at the time) 90+ page game?

Sugar 2265 wrote:ok, how about

Little to no scum-hunting, set-up speculation and other similar IIoA type posts, and a tell that has yet to do me wrong? (that quote is for the tell BTW)

toogers is scum
Why do you discount his push on Elli completely? Why do you think Maggie is a scum role? Do you think that was faked to draw out Glenn?

---

Thor 2330 wrote:I almost want to call that a town tell though, seriously, who forgets they had a scumbuddy who is dead?
Yeah, this is probably a good point.

---

TIP 2622 wrote:Titus, calm your tits for a minute, k? You and RC are obviously the same alignment and the passive-aggressive boyfriend-girlfriend relationship you two have leaves me at an impasse:
1. Titus defends the shit out of RC (while still suspecting him?) while RC coasts through until LyLo
2. Titus is clueless about how to react towards RC (which is a slight town tell for me) while RC conveniently "catches up" constantly and never posts in depth in fear of being seen as scummy
Titus, help me and shed some light on us.
I don't know what you're referring to. I haven't really said anything about Titus yet. I'm not coasting, if I were coasting I'd be posting stuff like "prod dodge, still reading".

---

OGML 2630 wrote:Vote parking Mastin is still super scum too
I would like him to use his vote a bit more, not sold on him as scum though.

---

sangres 2636 wrote:We think both elli and metal are scum.
Then why didn't you hammer?

(one of AD/Elli is town 100%)
+2/-8 sugar cain
-4/+2 AD
+2/-2 Matt
-4 pitoli
-1 bork
-1 Elli
+3 Thor
+2/-2 sangres
+2 mastin
+2 Toog
+3/-2 Amrun
+3 Toog
+6/-2 Des
+1/-4 NBH
+1/-1 Aj
-1 TIP
+2 OGML
+2/-3 JD/Titus (might have scumslipped)

In considering the best way to really frame this post, I think the most solid way to go is to treat it as though I am replacing in. I'll give the town three solid scumreads, all of which I'd be happy to lynch. As I've already made clear in this game, I am not the type that has to have my way or the highway, certainly not in a game this large. That's why I'm voting Elli and that's why I don't particularly care if he's the lynch today. He isn't my biggest scumread, but there's no reason for me to get in front of this lynch. I don't play that way.

My biggest townreads are
Desperado
and
Toog
by a country mile. Desperado has been consistently asking the right questions at the right times. He's one of the few players to really come on strongly against pitoli, a player that I find to be extremely scummy (more on that later). He is always engaging in multiple conversations, but isn't afraid to sell his ideas when he sees the opportunity. Toog, unlike the sour reputation of IIoA and rolefishing that some players have pegged him for, has been genuinely working to help this town move forward. Toog has been playing like the anti-Sugar, which is definitely a good thing. Him, Amrun, and mollie have been the only three to really try and make sense of the flavor, and their contributions have seemed fairly positive. Toog is the lead in this though, and I've found his opinions insightful and not influenced by twisting the story to fit a certain paradigm. No one else comes close to these reads, and barring a report or something, I will absolutely defend these two players for the foreseeable future.

mastin
and
Thor
are both pretty steady townreads as well. I'm a bit more shaky with them, however. mastin has been clear, concise, and as aggressive as his few posts have allowed him to be. He's focusing on AD, a player that I am not particularly fond of myself, and trying to balance out the silliness from some of the players like Matt, Sugar, and, to a lesser extent, Titus. A possible negative is him being rather one note. It's tough for me to criticize him on this given that I am guilty of the same thing, but I would suspect a townmastin to shop his vote around a bit more than he has, especially when others have pointedly asked him to. Thor I have trouble reading. Aside from the arrogance, I enjoy his playstyle and ferocity. He always strikes me as very intellectual but with an aggressive bend. I see that here, and it feels good. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty, and he's willing to stand up to both Matt and NBH when they were trying to shout down everyone else. Possible negatives just exist in me not feeling confident as to whether this really does make him town, but I am going with that interpretation for now.

Amrun
and
OGML
round out the remainder of my stable townreads, both of them rely heavily on their claims for support. OGML has simply been drowned out by the level of silliness in this thread, but a lot of his reactions have read as sincere. His JD/Titus attack was a game changer. I think OGML stands to gain a great deal from a Titus scumflip, but none of this really shakes at the possibility that he's an SK. Do I think he is? No, I don't. I think it's a possibility, but it's very hard for me to believe he saw claiming this early as his only out if he were an SK. Amrun has been up and down. I think she was the first one to come up with creditable ties to chesskid. While this isn't huge, it's noteworthy and earns her town points, especially given how she took what chess said to make townreads rather than scum ones. That was innovative and impressionable, I think. Her questions are solid and show that she has real goals in mind. What worries me a bit about her is her instance that she's obviously town. She's seemingly always trying to slip this in at oddest of times. There was one exchange where she got emotional on four or five consecutive occasions over players not viewing her as town. May have been just goofing around, but it didn't sit right with me nonetheless.

Although I don't really townread
Matt
or
NBH
, but I have zero desire to vote or lynch them. This sentiment relies completely on their claims (multiple in Matt's case). I don't townread these players, but it probably doesn't mean they're scum. It's probably just that I am not really coming to terms with the way they have played this game so far. They are ostracizing the rest of the playerbase in different ways, notably by overposting, passive-aggression, and acting out. It's important for me to say this because I don't want to have to field questions about why I may not vote Matt even though I think he's scummy. I am considerate of the fact, but I think this slot may hold a greater potential to help this town alive than dead. The lack of a counterclaim to NBH is really foolproof. It's very likely that her character (Michonne) is in this game. The claim does make some sense, especially after the Mod's intervention, but I really despise the way NBH has been trying to use it to get her way.

Metal Sonic
is probably my single biggest scumread not influenced in anyway whatsoever by other players/claims. pitoli's immediate reactions to the start of Day 2 were completely out there. Allowing me to begin with the fact that this slot had very little input during the first day at all. Both posts on the first day were abysmal. "why are people voting Desperado?" and "No idea who the scum is. I'll come back later." Let me deconstruct both of these before I get to the real meat that is her Day 2 play. The first post holds up a player and asks why he is getting votes. My immediate reaction to this post? You tell me. What's wrong with Desperado getting votes? Who should get votes? Is there someone sinister pushing these votes? She never comes back to this. This sticks out like a sore thumb because she doesn't really care why people are voting Desperado; it's just something for her to say and pretend to make an impact. If she really had cared about Desperado, then there was no reason she couldn't have followed it up. You cannot give her an out for this post anyway you slice it. Now, if you couple this post with the second one, you're left with an even more perplex picture as to what town thoughts would possibly going through her mind. She has no idea who the scum is, but what was the Desperado question all about then? If she didn't see it as scummy, then why is she questioning it, especially so early in the game? But let's move up to Day 2, because I could probably abide this if I had felt as though she put it behind her and really took a fresh look at the game. Post 755 is a useless piece of filler. This is a complete throwaway post that tells us nothing about pitoli's unique perspective at all. Further, I'd argue it's written in such a way to sound intelligent and analytical, but it comes off as sounding nothing like pitoli trying to get to the bottom of the wagon at all. It sounds utterly fake. Then you go to post 761, and you can only ask yourself why does she persistently not give reads? Why is she talking in such vague generalities? If that was such a bad wagon as she claims, why is she not pointing the finger at someone? In post 764, she claims she has made it to page 15, but by this time, StupendousKey was at, like, L-6. The wagon was halfway built. Remember, the wagon she said was capitalized by scum? Yet of her three scumreads (John Doe, Me, and Sugar Cain), none of us were on the StupendeousKey lynch at this time. What does that tell you? That this is fake. At best she's making it up as she goes along. In post 965, her intent reads about a subtle as a bull in a china shop. Her question about OGML's posting frequency is completely seethrough. She's rhetorically asking about why he's posting so much in a negative sense, but she doesn't vote him or ask him anything specific. In fact, she hasn't used her vote at all so far! Lastly, I'm not big on meta, but if you are, you really ought to check out pitoli's play in Mini 1464 to compare with her here. I promise it is very short (just like her play here). Similarities: 1) Very little posting. 2) Lack of votes (0 in this game versus 1 in that game). 3) Questions she asks without ever following up on or effectively pursuing. 4) Rhetorical questions that are plain as day (and the lack of followthrough to vote someone on the back of them).

So that's all for pitoli. Metal Sonic is less of a sure thing in my book, but he's had is share of arguably scummy posts. An overdefensive post 2300: This post shows little concern for actual scumhunting and is a just blind anger over Amrun's potential justified vote. His claim in post 2491 reads as though he's kind of testing the waters. He had no pressure to claim. I doubt the veracity of it, honestly. Either he was just trolling or trying to throw people off. I've never played with this scummer, so I am not sure what exactly he'd be prone to do. Given pitoli's play, I'm inclined to distrust him.

Another substantial scumread of mine is
ActionDan
. AD has done some solid town stuff, but I think he's also done some really questionable stuff too. I'll try to approach him as fair and balanced as I can, because he ought to get credit for what I think he has done that looks town. Additionally, and Amrun/Desperado have both touched on this, AD is part of a pair with Elli that I really think contains at least one non-Mafia player due to one of chesskid's post 731. Starting with post 460, we see an already meek AD that has slipped in a comment about understanding the StupendousKey wagon, but it doesn't exhibit any willingness to commit to a read on it one way or the other. AD isn't voting here. He could've voted StupendousKey here, but he chose not to. That's important, I think, because it setups a pattern of being disengaged that is only broken at certain, unsavory times. Consistent with the pattern, notice how he makes a short post in post 578 where he calls out three scumreads (including StupendousKey). I applaud him for being open, but not for his continued lack of vote. He even goes so far as to state that he's "up for voting SK whenever" as though he is looking for Matt's (or someone's) permission. He does the same thing in post 726. Really we get very little from AD after that. He votes pitoli, which is good, but he's just staying in the background (other players, myself included, are just as guilty of this, but it needs to be said). In post 1564, we have kind of an empty, blah type post. It took mastin criticizing his play to really get anything out of AD that wasn't "I'll vote if someone asks me to" or sheeping. Additionally, he's critical of mastin's post, but he doesn't really elaborate beyond "that's a scummastin post". In contrast with this, I actually like AD's post 1742 where he pushed on NBH. But then he started to get worse again with crap like post 1825 which is clearly narrow-minded and could be read as though it was said with an agenda. Obviously the method with which people die has very important relevance. This was an over-the-top defense of NBH. So I am not liking AD's relationships with NBH or Elli. AD seems bent on slowing this game down, and I read him as a very likely candidate for scum.

Sugar Cain
has been festering in my mind as an unhealthy mix of a scum and anti-town read. The first thing to note is that this slot has claimed as a roleblocker, which gives me real pause in pushing this slot prematurely, but short of a godfather, a roleblocker is probably one of the most common scum roles around. It's kind of a wash. Post 386 is the first post that stuck out to me as scummy. This reads as Sugar wanting to have her cake and eat it too. She says she doesn't like the speed of the wagon, but she helped mobilize it. She says she doesn't like how SK isn't defending himself, but she says she still doesn't like him. I don't even know how "not defending yourself" translates into something a town player would do, but that's why this post is scummy. Post 507 is too emotional and too tag-alongish. Maybe it was the emoticon that put it over the top, but I just dislike this whole comment. Another thing is that this is the second time she has said Toog is scum without really addressing him directly or elaborating. Post 667 is just flatout confusing. It was about this point when players should realize that Sugar often just posts to be posting. A great many of the posts that come from Sugar are fluffy and ultimately serve to do nothing more than clutter the thread with random emotions and thoughts that often go nowhere. A good example is her deplorable "test" on pitoli. In what should've been a relatively simple questioning of pitoli, Sugar somehow managed to completely fumble it in a way I cannot fathom as being anything but anti-town. I talk about this more in my notes, but if you look at post 785 where the incompetence really comes to a head, Sugar somehow manages to 1) Create a test for pitoli. 2) Have Matt call her out for it. 3) Respond to Matt that it is, in fact, a test. 4) Have pitoli respond to it. 5) And after all this, still screw up on the player that "hasn't posted at all"? It's a comedy of errors. Post 864 is a good question that Desperado ignored for some reason, but then you've got scummy stuff like post 889 which excuses the slot for not using their vote. I've already talked about earlier in this thread how bad post 993 is, but it bears repeating. This is the kind of post that really wants me to push for a lynch on this slot though. Posts like that are incredibly harmful to the town and get us nowhere. No one should be subjected to hearing a hydra bicker over internal problems, but Sugar is a repeat offender. Post 1115 and post 2141 have these traits of paranoia that is another thing this slot is known for. It has me leaning back toward a scumread, as does their persistent, wrongheaded push of Toog throughout this game.

Lastly, I'd be content with a
Titus
lynch without getting into a long paragraph over him. The main reason revolves around OGML's catch however. Without that, I don't particularly see the slot as noteworthy. He's done good and bad things, but a lot of his posts remind me of Desperado's input. I think OGML found a worthy slip, but I appreciate Titus' willingness to argue for himself. I don't buy into the idea that he had so little to do with his other hydra head that he wasn't even aware as to why Wayne voted the way he did, but other than that I find myself liking his spunk.

tl;dr = Metal Sonic is scum for pitoli's aimless questions, replacing out, and a strange claim. AD is scum for working to slow the game down, not being independent, and appearing at opportune times. Sugar is anti-town/scum for posting too much fluff, acting over emotional, and being flatout confusing. If I didn't mention a player, they didn't leave a lasting impression on me and could probably go either way (bork, Pere, Aj, Elli, sangres, TIP).

[
Town
]-------Desperado--Toog------mastin--Thor----Amrun---OGML-NBH--TIP--bork-[
∙
]-sangres--Aj-Matt--Pere---Elli---Titus-SC--AD---------MS------[
Scum
]

I read the entire thing and fuck that tl;dr, this is required reading for every player. An excellent mix of incredibly in depth IIoA mixed with top notch scumhunting that, if fake, would go down as the single greatest post in the history of mafia. RC is town forever and ever, amen.

Desperado · Post Post #2788 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:30 am

And I didn't ignore it, Red.

In post 862, Desperado wrote:Amrun

In post 863, Desperado wrote:Or Toog, and Amrun is Glenn. It doesn't really matter because Toog isn't town for his claim anyway.

In post 864, Sugar Cain wrote:So you think its a fakeclaim?

In post 865, Toogeloo wrote:No, I'm pretty sure he means my other play makes me town, my claim has nothing to do with it.

Unvote: waynegg
Vote: John Doe

Hadn't realized he was part of the hydra until I reread what was going on.

In post 872, Desperado wrote:@ Nero: Toog had it right.

Sugar Cain · Post Post #2789 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:33 am

IIOA is generally a scum trait, so you think he's too experienced of a player to do this?

Desperado · Post Post #2790 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:34 am

In post 2789, Sugar Cain wrote:IIOA is generally a scum trait, so you think he's too experienced of a player to do this?

I was using IIOA positively. That post will prove invaluable because it's a perfect summation of 2800 post game.

Desperado · Post Post #2791 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:35 am

Like you could show that post to someone who didn't even know this game existed and they would be perfectly capable of picking up a slot as if they'd been here the whole time.

Sugar Cain · Post Post #2792 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:39 am

*shrugz*

I'm busy responding to the part about me and have only skimmed the rest but basically I think his stuff (about me) is pretty lol and all his scumreads are like the most suspected players in the game and both me and Mara didn't like the fact he kept bandwagoning without being fully caught up.

Desperado · Post Post #2793 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:43 am

I don't agree with his conclusions on you guys either but the notion that being upset with your blatant, in-thread hydra-dis or Mara's interaction with pitoli are "lol" is kind of weird.

No Brains Here · Post Post #2794 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:47 am

In post 2789, Sugar Cain wrote:IIOA is generally a scum trait, so you think he's too experienced of a player to do this?

AHEM

This was AioI : Analysis instead of Information

No Brains Here · Post Post #2795 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:49 am

I say we sheep RC.

VOTE:

Metal Sonic

Desperado · Post Post #2796 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:50 am

How about we lynch Elli and you guys sheep RC tonight?

Desperado · Post Post #2797 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:50 am

How about we lynch Elli and you guys sheep RC tonight?

Sugar Cain · Post Post #2798 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:54 am

EL OH EL!!! I think you are about the only person in this thread that thought our roleblocker claim was real and that just makes me sad.

Post 667 is just flatout confusing. It was about this point when players should realize that Sugar often just posts to be posting

Maybe its confusing when taken out of context. Bork was asking whom he should be looking at and I told him. Yeah, I messed up and put a question mark instead of a period but come on it can't be THAT hard to figure out what I meant.

but then you've got scummy stuff like post 889 which excuses the slot for not using their vote

Same question I asked OGML (which I don't remember him answering) Why was it important to move my vote?

post 2141 have these traits of paranoia that is another thing this slot is known for. It has me leaning back toward a scumread

You have me leaning scum for doing something that I'm known for doing? WTF?

as does their persistent, wrongheaded push of Toog throughout this game.

Upon what authority has told you that Toog is town?

+ Why did you feel the need to skip a paragraph on Titus? Can you explain your Titus read better? In your little blurb it seems like you have it more in a positive light than negative so....yeah.

No Brains Here · Post Post #2799 (ISO) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:54 am

In post 2796, Desperado wrote:How about we lynch Elli and you guys sheep RC tonight?

We're not 100% effective.