I'd ask for a rolecop to investigate, but kop can say he commuted or he dies at night because scum targets him when he doesn't. It's kind of an unconformable claim, and not likely that it'll be cc'd. Doesn't help that both seth and kop are scummy. Can't even ask for a vig. That's a lynch target man, just vig matt.
pedit:
@mod: do scum have daychat?
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:20 am
by MagnaofIllusion
In post 2776, Nosferatu wrote:Let's also talk about the fact that he calls zakk shotty's scum buddy in 2452 and then says he hasn't read his iso in 2750 and doesn't have a read on him.
Just highlighting this because this is a very important point that I don’t want lost in a large wall response.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:24 am
by Shaziro
So right now I'm thinking Ircher is trying to avoid answering questions, which I hate. I think it would be worth wagoning Kop, because I don't like that Seth's awful scumminess is getting slipped past as "Oh he's just a troll", and if he flips scum I'm going to be looking fairly hard into the people who were trying that excuse to be honest. Kop hasn't done anything that really improves his image to me (Including a roleclaim this early), so VOTE: Kop
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:29 am
by Nosferatu
In post 2818, projectmatt wrote:That seems like an exaggeration - I just ISO'd Nosferatu and he's attacked Anen several times but refused to vote for him. That's part of why I scumread Nosferatu - because it feels like he's trying to set himself up for future credit if Anen flips scum, while still refusing to vote for Anen.
Regardless though, I'll try to compile what I specifically dislike about Anen.
you're absolutely fucking right I'm taking credit post-game when anen flips scum, cause I scumread that shit and the rest of the town didn't. I'm an egotistical bastard and that's what I do.
I'm not refusing to vote for anen, but I won't be today, because anen can be vigged or can be hit by cross kills. Kop is a much more realistic risk. When you've got two people who commit a crime, do you indict the construction worker who killed a man or the med-tech executive who committed fraud? The med-tech executive, since he's a flight risk! A commuter is objectively higher in priority in lynches because you can't vig him, unless you try over and over again, and at that point you're wasting vig targets.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:30 am
by drmyshottyizsik
In post 2827, Shaziro wrote:So right now I'm thinking Ircher is trying to avoid answering questions, which I hate. I think it would be worth wagoning Kop, because I don't like that Seth's awful scumminess is getting slipped past as "Oh he's just a troll", and if he flips scum I'm going to be looking fairly hard into the people who were trying that excuse to be honest. Kop hasn't done anything that really improves his image to me (Including a roleclaim this early), so VOTE: Kop
In post 2806, projectmatt wrote:That's a strong statement. Who on the wagon do you think is scum? I believe that you scumread Magna, but who else in order for it to be a "scum-pushed wagon"? What are your thoughts on Anen?
Nosferatu for starters, that read should be pretty obvious if you've been reading me.
I'm unsure about Ircher as well and entertained some suspicion about Lowell after talking to zakk but he does seem pretty town in his latest catch-up.
I did not particularly like Aneninen's latest (too many places where he was fence sitting) and the Kop vote switch when you hadn't done anything for him to change the focus, but the way I am reading the game makes him very likely town here and he did have Kop as possible scum before switching.
Look at this response to someone Copper claimed to be scum (and is still voting as of 2756) – does this look like Town talking to a solid scum suspect to you? Doesn’t to me.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:44 am
by SirCakez
In post 584, SirCakez wrote:Scum do not have mechanical day talk. That's as much as I'll say on that.
In post 2812, Ircher wrote:Kop, is it not obvious who I was refering to? It's just like how someone jumped on me earlier when I said us clearly refering to Titus and me in that context.
But that's not right at all. It can't be an association read completely. You scumread Copper near the very start of the game, long before KOP was even a factor.
You obviously have reasons to vote for Copper other than him being associated with KOP, or you're bullshitting.
1) There's a thing called opinions/reasons/views change
2) I never said it was completely association. If you were paying attn, I implied/said it was *primarily* association
3) There's also the 4p neighborhood (and that assumption is based off of the wiki's theory)
In post 2816, projectmatt wrote:Okay. Good response. You can remain as town, then. My only question is it about the way you're reading the game that makes Anen very likely town?
Also, I want to persist with my "Ircher is clearly town, and you guys are stupid for voting him" shtick, but his sudden silence after I just called him out on presumably lying is very telling.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:49 am
by Ircher
The other quote -- Be patient
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:54 am
by Ircher
In post 2827, Shaziro wrote:So right now I'm thinking Ircher is trying to avoid answering questions, which I hate. I think it would be worth wagoning Kop, because I don't like that Seth's awful scumminess is getting slipped past as "Oh he's just a troll", and if he flips scum I'm going to be looking fairly hard into the people who were trying that excuse to be honest. Kop hasn't done anything that really improves his image to me (Including a roleclaim this early), so VOTE: Kop
Show me where I've truly avoided answering questions.
Ircher wrote:
The fact it's 2-Shot further suggests its a scum commuter.
Why?
This is scum Copper protecting scum Kop.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 am
by Ircher
Read further.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:06 am
by Shaziro
I did. First you tried to avoid answering by shouting "SCUM BUDDY", then you gave an answer with no explanation, then at being pushed even more you tried to just argue that the modifier makes it more likely to be scum. That is very much you avoiding giving an answer, when it takes you that long to give one to a fairly simple question, and could easily be you trying to think up a reason while you stall.
I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though
I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.
purple
= what Lowell wants people to see as his reason for switching his vote
In post 2795, Lowell wrote:Thanks, think I've got it. 2x unNKable, normally a town role but not necessarily, cop believes it and irch doesn't.
I am not a fan of the claim either (mainly because as town it's a bad move).
What makes him more likely town are some of the players on his wagon and the fact it popped up now, when PM was the alternative (and lo and behold who made that wagon viable, why it's MagnaScum in collaboration with TerritownIrcher (?) and Nosferatu who never pushes her scum reads but this one is ok), instead of yesterday when Seth was busy shitposting left right and center.
@Ircher
Cuz scum commuters are way more powerful than town commuters
Whereas an unkillable innocent child is not a game breaking town role? Commuters are always x-shot or have some other limitations like even/odd-night regardless of alignment.
I was thinking even/odd more likely for town. Yes, full commuters are too powerful, but in a large, 2-Shot is much weaker than Even/Odd or Non-Consecutive modifiers.
Maybe I'm being stubborn, but my point is more that Kop shouldn't just claim whatever role and the wagon immediately disappears. The wagon wasn't even L-1 yet (as far as I remember).
The role could just as easily be scum as town (<-- That statement is 100% factual) and I feel scum would have had more incentive to claim then than town.
Just cuz you disagree with the reasoning does not mean I didn't provide one. Stop misrepping.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:08 am
by Nosferatu
as a side note to ircher, commuters usually flip town more than scum, since it's pretty weak for scum to not be able to act at night when you could just give them ascetic or bp to protect against vigs/cross-kills and investigations.
I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though
I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.
purple
= what Lowell wants people to see as his reason for switching his vote
blue
= what i see.
lowell is scum.
Yeah, that is a suspicious jump -- off the wagon right when it is about to go through.
I'll have to keep a closer eye on that slot.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:10 am
by drmyshottyizsik
zakk can you use different colours? I'm colorblind and can't see the difference in those blue and purple shades
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:11 am
by Ircher
In post 2844, Nosferatu wrote:as a side note to ircher, commuters usually flip town more than scum, since it's pretty weak for scum to not be able to act at night when you could just give them ascetic or bp to protect against vigs/cross-kills and investigations.
But that's inconsequential because Kop is scum.
Thanks for the tip
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:13 am
by Shaziro
Ircher. You literally -didn't- provide a reason to start. Then, you gave a "It's more likely because power levels" answer, without explaining that either. -Then- you explained. I'm not misrepping, I'm stating that you took your sweet time finding a reason.
Zakk, that's actually a good point...
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:13 am
by drmyshottyizsik
I've given commuter scum the option to either kill or commute before, it's like a scum jailkeeper that can only JK themself
this is here to signal wtf are you doing.