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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:14 am
by copper223
In post 2824, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Kop’s claim doesn’t dissuade me from the wagon. Commuter in a multiball set-up is a very viable scum PR. I’m not exceedingly shocked to see Copper floating Kop as scum-driven.
Seriously open Copper in ISO. Search for Seth / Kop. Observe how often he calls that slot scum right up until a wagon appears on him. Chainsaw defense at then happens. Seriously. 492, 657, 867,. Late day 1 in thread he moves him to “Meh” 1432. Overnight in the Neighborhood Seth / Kop was “likely scum”. Today started with 2333. And note how Seth / Kop mysteriously doesn’t appear in his Vote Tally analysis.
Classic soft bussing that turned into “Oh shit, Town is actually pushing on my partner” defense stance.
There was nothing soft about my scum hunting on Seth yesterday, I created that wagon. You can also follow the read evolution pretty well if want to and you're not scum peddling a narrative like Magna here.
Anyone that has played with me_scum also knows I despise bussing so you really picked a bad subject to BS about.
I'd like the rest of you to note how he repeatedly speaks about "fitting the forum meta" or how it is "a classic soft bus" as if he were analyzing some sort of imaginary average scum player he is portraying here, does that make sense to you as a scum hunting method? This is what junk looks like to me.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:14 am
by Shaziro
In post 2842, zakk wrote: In post 2787, Lowell wrote:hey the kop wagon is actually happening. I'm a trend-setter. You're welcome, world.
In post 2791, copper223 wrote: In post 2789, SirCakez wrote:Kop (6) - Expedience, Lowell, Ircher, MagnaOfIllusion, Nosferatu, Aneninen
Likely reason why the Kop wagon picked up steam now and not yesterday when it made a bunch more sense.
Likely town screwing up and cross OMGUSING each other.
Likely scum waiting to see where the wind blows before moving from old wagons.
this is here to signal wtf are you doing.
Try to remember this snapshot of the game-state if I flip and/or if the players I am scum reading start flipping as expected.
In post 2797, Lowell wrote:
I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though
I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.
= what Lowell wants people to see as his reason for switching his vote
= what i see.
lowell is scum.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:15 am
by drmyshottyizsik
thank you
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:15 am
by Ircher
Yeah, Lowell can die too -- That jump off is just too convenient.
Pedit: Sure, scum Qdodge too, but scum are often more careful. I'm most certainly am when I'm scum. Yes, I was thinking up a good answer, but that's cuz I say stuff like that without thinking.
Pedit3: Ninja'd x2
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:15 am
by Shaziro
That was just me changing the colors but I buggered it up. Red is what he saw, purple was the reason Lowell wants him to see. Not going to edit it again because spam.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:16 am
by zakk
also:
In post 2797, Lowell wrote:VOTE: matt
I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown.
matt has been on this site
over 5 years
he's clearly not "newbtown" as i am
100% sure i have said to lowell before:
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:16 am
by Shaziro
In post 2853, Ircher wrote:
Pedit: Sure, scum Qdodge too, but scum are often more careful. I'm most certainly am when I'm scum. Yes, I was thinking up a good answer, but that's cuz I say stuff like that without thinking.
-That- is a much more reasonable answer.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:16 am
by zakk
same
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:20 am
by MagnaofIllusion
In post 2850, copper223 wrote:Anyone that has played with me_scum also knows I despise bussing so you really picked a bad subject to BS about.
I'd like the rest of you to note how he repeatedly speaks about "fitting the forum meta" or how it is "a classic soft bus" as if he were analyzing some sort of imaginary average scum player he is portraying here, does that make sense to you as a scum hunting method? This is what junk looks like to me.
This is the response I'd expect from scum - A self-meta response and throwing some ad-homenium as opposed to responding to the fact that your read on the Seth / Kop slot was scum right until the point when an actually viable wagon forms on Kop.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am
by Ircher
So:
Scum --> Kop, Lowell, Copper
Lean Scum --> Shaziro, Shotty
Neutral-Scum --> Nos, Liger (Don't like the inactivity there)
Null --> Cy (Please Vig)
Neutral-Town --> Zakk, Project, Egg
Lean Town --> Anen, Exp, Nahdia
Town --> (Ircher), Titus, Magna
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:35 am
by copper223
What a brazen liar, first of all note that Magna lied about the push being soft:
In post 867, copper223 wrote:I am still not moving from Seth, maybe he is a rare snowflake (happened once with another newbie) but he ticked all my boxes and at one point you have to put up with type I errors to avoid giving too many type II's a get out of jail for free card.
Now about my read changing only after there was a viable wagon on Kop:
In post 2512, copper223 wrote:then voted for the Kop_slot (whom I am now assuming is a worse version of KTS)
This is when I changed my mind on the slot, at this point there were exactly 0 votes on Kop.
Kindly lynch this.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:39 am
by copper223
VOTE: Magna
This is the only kind of post I want to see.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:44 am
by Lowell
@shaz and zakk, I haven't really seen anyone articulate why the kop claim is scum. the "two-shot" part in particular makes me think it's a town claim. If he's scum, why wouldn't he polish his claim to be the more conventional "one-shot" or "even/odd" type of claim? I guess this is WIFOM too, but again I can't see why scum would benefit from this.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:49 am
by Shaziro
My biggest problem with it is that it was completely unsolicited. Wasn't even at L-1. It seems to me that he got really nervous of the wagon on him and wanted to throw some decoy flares out to distract and, if not get the wagon removed, give some time for scum to potentially daytalk and find a better escape plan.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:56 am
by zakk
In post 2862, Lowell wrote:@shaz and zakk, I haven't really seen anyone articulate why the kop claim is scum. the "two-shot" part in particular makes me think it's a town claim. If he's scum, why wouldn't he polish his claim to be the more conventional "one-shot" or "even/odd" type of claim? I guess this is WIFOM too, but again I can't see why scum would benefit from this.
i'm not talking about whether kop is scum or not
i'm talking about whether YOU are scum or not
nice attempt to straw man, though
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:00 am
by MagnaofIllusion
In post 2860, copper223 wrote:What a brazen liar, first of all note that Magna lied about the push being soft:
In post 867, copper223 wrote:I am still not moving from Seth, maybe he is a rare snowflake (happened once with another newbie) but he ticked all my boxes and at one point you have to put up with type I errors to avoid giving too many type II's a get out of jail for free card.
Now about my read changing only after there was a viable wagon on Kop:
In post 2512, copper223 wrote:then voted for the Kop_slot (whom I am now assuming is a worse version of KTS)
This is when I changed my mind on the slot, at this point there were exactly 0 votes on Kop.
Oh, it wasn't a soft because you said it was a strong read? Lol, no. It was soft because it never developed into anything of a viable wagon. A quick spin through the Day 1 vote-counts was 4 total votes. So only 1/3rd of the way to a viable lynch. And let's look at the wagon make-up -
You can try to twist terminology to somehow suggest you were "hard pushing" Seth but then there is the pesky problem of half your current "scum-reads" being in step with you on that wagon. So were you hard pushing Seth a large portion Day 1 with scummy players?
As to you "changing your mind" - a sub-line buried in a bunch of relational tells is your clearly marked statement that Kop is Town?
I also note you didn't bother to respond to the fact you are talking to PM who is a supposed scum-read as if they were Town. Wonder why that is ...
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:30 am
by copper223
In post 2865, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Oh, it wasn't a soft because you said it was a strong read? Lol, no. It was soft because it never developed into anything of a viable wagon. A quick spin through the Day 1 vote-counts was 4 total votes. So only 1/3rd of the way to a viable lynch. And let's look at the wagon make-up -
It's funny how you keep digging your grave even deeper.
I spent a lot of D1 scumhunting Seth and if not much came of it it certainly wasn't for lack of effort on my side (as anyone that wants to ISO me and not make stuff up will easily see, if they don't remember already).
You can try to twist terminology to somehow suggest you were "hard pushing" Seth but then there is the pesky problem of half your current "scum-reads" being in step with you on that wagon. So were you hard pushing Seth a large portion Day 1 with scummy players?
Maybe because I did not have a scum read on most of those players D1?
This argument is even more grotesque, in fact one of the reasons I moved Nos from leaning scum to meh town at the time was her willingness to vote Seth with me, PM I didn't think was scum at all and explained why a while back when complimenting Anen. on his likely good bussing read of Nahdia/PM, once again what you are doing is misrepping liberally and not reading what your supposed scum read is actually saying to peddle some absurd crap that doesn't even make sense as it ignores that the game state at the time of seth's wagon is not the same as now after 3 flips and 50 pages of extra information (just the idea you would make the comparison proves how phony you are).
As to you "changing your mind" - a sub-line buried in a bunch of relational tells is your clearly marked statement that Kop is Town?
I also note you didn't bother to respond to the fact you are talking to PM who is a supposed scum-read as if they were Town. Wonder why that is ...
So now I am scum for not mentioning it more clearly, where did your thesis about defending the wagon go?
For those not scum, take my reads in the post I quoted (the Seth=KTS one), check who is on kop's wagon and you will easily see why I am leery of it (and how it has nothing to do with how many players are voting him or not).
As for your latest foray, I do not start a conversation assuming the other party is scum by definition as that is very likely not going to net me any information other than a screaming match, I did the same when answering you D1, I did the same with Seth, I did the same with Nosferatu, I did the same with Anen. when I thought Nahdia was onto something, I do the same with every player in every game until I decide that there is no way the other party isn't malicious, like in your case MagnaScum.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:45 am
by copper223
That's a further obvious scum claim from Magna by the way, he doesn't even think the difference between the middle of D1 and now in terms of read evolution is relevant, cause he freaking doesn't have to evolve any reads in the first place.
Once again, kindly lynch.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:51 am
by MagnaofIllusion
In post 2866, copper223 wrote:I spent a lot of D1 scumhunting Seth and if not much came of it it certainly wasn't for lack of effort on my side (as anyone that wants to ISO me and not make stuff up will easily see, if they don't remember already).
And yet despite your valiant effort Day 1 the wagon went nowhere. So is your assertion that Seth / Kop was Town who you pushed but scum refused to take the bait on? You asked Kop to look at why his wagon didn’t take off Day 1 when it made sense so this must be the assumption.
Yet a wagon on Ircher (who is pretty darn Town) was easy to engage for a good portion of the early Day 1. As was (we now know) the wagon on Brawl and Pers. If Kop is the Town-lynch bait you seem to be peddling now I think it would stand to reason he’d have drawn more votes with all your strong scum-hunting.
In post 2866, copper223 wrote:So now I am scum for not mentioning it more clearly, where did your thesis about defending the wagon go?
No … you are scum for trying to paint it as if you clearly called Kop scum when you started this day (
2333), didn’t interact with the slot at all, specifically avoided giving him an analysis at
2519 (with an “Oh, he was a troll slot with a new lurker” explanation at
2626] which contradicts that you were supposedly Town reading him earlier at
2512). Mighty convinant in two posts after your supposed Town revelation when you had a chance to positively call him Town you absolutely failed to do so (once leaving him completely out of the analysis, once effectively calling him unreadable).
My view on your defense of the wagon went nowhere – you are the one who tried to “move the goalposts” with your retroactive “I was Town reading Kop much earlier” attempt.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:53 am
by MagnaofIllusion
In post 2867, copper223 wrote:That's a further obvious scum claim from Magna by the way, he doesn't even think the difference between the middle of D1 and now in terms of read evolution is relevant, cause he freaking doesn't have to evolve any reads in the first place.
Once again, kindly lynch.
Appealing to Repetition - call me scum often enough and those pesky facts (as I demonstrated in the last post about how your read doesn't develop organically in any way, shape or form).
Misrep - I clearly understand there is a difference. I also understand your claimed reads don't make sense and have shown how they don't.
Classic scum double-play of argument fallacies.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:25 am
by Lowell
@zakk, ah okay, I see. well, I'm not, so. Also your argument against me would imply kop is scum too, so I'd say it's important.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:39 am
by zakk
In post 2500, zakk wrote: In post 2479, Kop wrote: In post 2453, Titus wrote: In post 2452, Kop wrote:VOTE: shotty
If and when shotty flips scum, we can lynch his partner, zakk.
You are aware there's a wagon on Zakk?
I am half aware there is a wagon.
But right now I just feel that's
it's more of a pressure wagon that will probably disintegrate.
I however feel shotty Is the best wagon that will paint a picture better than zakk.
On the off chance zakk is town
then it is obviously pointing harder towards shotty but we can't afford to drop numbers over night.
bolded is relevant
1. so you're only "
half
" aware there's a wagon on me
BUT
you also are able to classify it as a "
pressure wagon that will probably disintegrate
"?
sounds like you're a bit more than half aware. scummy.
2. "on the off chance that zakk is town"
soooo you think it's likely i'm scum
but you're not voting me?
re-reading and found this.
kop + lowell + ??? as a scum team sounds warm.
especially with lowell's hop onto kop.
however, i much prefer lowell to kop
and i much prefer titus to lowell.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:05 pm
by cytheflyguy
@Mod Going on V/LA until the 23rd
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:49 pm
by Ircher
@Cy
Readlist pls.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:41 pm
by zakk
updated reads:
town reads
{
Egg
,
}
{
MagnaofIllusion
,
Aneninen
,
}
{
,
Ircher
}
middle reads
{
drmyshottyizsik
,
cytheflyguy*
}
{
Nosferatu**
} need to read up... he's been prodded twice too
{
} = lurksack af? quite active elsewhere/site chat. however, no prods... ?
{
copper223
}
scum reads:
{
,
}
{
Lowell*
}
{
Titus
}
dead:
- Lynched Day 1 -
Killthestory
- Killed Night 1 -
EspeciallyTheLies
- Killed Night 1 -
TehBrawlGuy
- Killed Night 1 -
