Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Tchill13]

Luca

A50
Billy
Flippynips
Klick
Icon
Datisi

Looking back, this is such an annoying readslist for my purposes now.

idk what you're getting at.

[Tchill13]

somebody has to have done something that makse no sense between me/luca/klick btw unless the team is uzi/gobble.

[Klick]

Gobble has shown no hesitance. He was prepared to straight-up lynch me/LUV.

[Klick]

By the end of page 8 I think I want to give Tchill another day. The fact I've seem him getting MISlynched on D1 before for being .. um.. irrational and overly reactive makes me want not to make the same mistake just in case he is town and doing what he does best.. getting mislynched. I would check there if I was an investigative though. (But that's just me)

What an odd interaction. Leaving this one here to sit on for a bit.

[Tchill13]

Gobble has shown no hesitance. He was prepared to straight-up lynch me/LUV.

Yeah I agree. Then he also throwed shade on what would town clear you. I clearly said I'm not sure why he's doing this.

[Klick]

So, it's Luca/Nips/Tchill if I had to consider a lynch pool based on PoE, but I don't have a case on any of them, and I may even have reservations on going full force on someone like Tchill whom I've seen play just like that as town.

Does A50 force-feed 'this is Tchill's townplay' to us here as Tchill's partner?

PEdit: I'm saying that because, from a scum!Luca perspective, he can just lynch me with Gobble either today or tomorrow, right? Since Gobble's convinced the team is me/LUV.

[Tchill13]

Am I really gonna have to go from uzi/klick to uzi/luca to uzi/gobble in a lylo day phase?

Because you make a good point. If I and gobble were ready to hang you and uzi why not do that?

We lynch luv. Nk either me or gobble. Then kill you. Luca/luv wins.

That would be a reasonable route for a scum team of uzi/luca to take.

Klick is now conf town to me no matter what the rest of the day phase. LUV is conf scum to me no matter what the rest of the day phase.

So it comes down to Luca or gobble being the partner.

That last part does make more sense for a gobble/uzi team.

This said... I will not be voting anyone other than uzi today.

[Tchill13]

I buy what you're selling. Particularly that you wouldn't have killed Ali.
It's worth noting that there's not a chance I kill Ali last night either, unless I/my partner saw the crumb. I was in his good books.

Gobble's not scum and I think that's pretty obvious.
I'm ready to accept that I could be wrong on Billy/LUV.
Datisi doesn't feel like scum here, particularly in the last few pages of getting annoyed with me. At first I thought she was being defeatist to try and get townread, but I don't think doing it to this level is quite within her range.

I'm falling on LUV/Luca as a team and I think it makes a fair amount of sense. Luca's read on LUV has flip-flopped enough that I'm not sold on it being coherent.

PEdit: I mean everything you're saying is consistent with the kind of stuff I've read from your past scum PTs I do think there are certain things people just don't do when they're scum that they do when they're town. To that end, meta isn't trash.

Once again. You hard TR gobble here and tr me. If I'm scum with gobble it makes much more sense for me to case Luca at the beginning of the day and try to get you to buy into a luca/luv team. There's no way in hell it makes sense for me to get Luca to lynch you then flip to what you were pushing originally. As scum with gobble I'd just push what you were pushing out of the gate.

[Tchill13]

I'm conf town on luv's scum flip.

If I die it's a scum claim from gobble. Considering he's a n3 BG.

If it's me/klick/gobble in lylo tomorrow... I'll be worried. Because I can just as easily see them both being scum with LUV.

[Tchill13]

Me/luca/gobble

[Klick]

Luca, there's not a world in which you entertain a LUV/gobble scumteam, is there? Because without you being open to considering that possibility, it's just a distraction.

Gobble and I were around at the same time yesterday and there wasn't a hammer on LUV. If it's all the same to you, if you're completely sold on Tchill/gobble being the team, I'd appreciate you limiting my options from three teams to two by voting Tchill instead.

But if you're not set in stone, then I think LUV/gobble is a team that deserves at least a bit of consideration. I think it's the least likely team atm, but it's not out of the question.

[Klick]

In other words Tchill, if LUV/gobble is actually the scumteam, then we can't lynch LUV without Luca's help.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

What kind of question is that in the context of my opening post?

I asked luv if he wants to double down on his VT claim and you ask if I'd like to lynch gobble???

I’m VT.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If you two are just going to be brick walls and repeat the same play that essentially got Emperor lynched than I’ll just do the same.

VOTE: Gobble

He’s a claimed PR that can’t use his action until Night 3.

A bodyguard at that.

Or he’s scum because despite his claim, his play seems designed to look busy.

There was no risk to claiming there because of how A50 replaced out.

No there’s a difference between being busy actually playing and looking like you’re busy. The two massive posts he made are the latter.

None of the PR claims are happening so I’m left with just you.

I’ve never stated a town read on Datisi?

I don’t feel like my Datisi and Gobble reasons are without reason. I think I explained my issue with how tchill opened today and his case on me.

VOTE: Datisi

im about to go back through but this guys had way more reason for lynching A50.

Correct. However no one wanted to other than Luca and when I tried to engage with you and Datisi it was like pulling teeth. There’s not much I can do or say at that point there when you both were unwilling to read my content.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

And yes, 'why isn't Icon dead' is a very valid question.

I do not have an answer to this, but I consider it fully possible they chose an agressive strong town player over a player who claimed cop way too early and that there is a decent chance that was a fake claim. Not to mention the possibility of a protective being on a claimed cop.

I wanted to comment on the point you and tchill made about Alisae being a night kill for most players here but I thought better of it as it would require me referencing things that ultimately won’t lead us anywhere.

What I will say is that you two are probably right in regards to the Newbie and Normal queue. I cannot say the same for the other queues. This makes me think that the simplest explanation is most likely. Luca did bring up that A50 could have reasons for killing Alisae but my gut tells me we should be looking at him and Ico.

I wouldn’t give the A50 theory stock at all if it wasn’t for his 758.

I also would expect a miller here if we had some sort of protective role.

I feel that datisi is town, I do not know that.

I’m still not understanding why you think Datisi is town.

Why do you think datisi is scum?

Are you giving Alisae any credit at all for her reads?

Answering my question with a question doesn’t quite answer mine at all my friend.

You opened today with a town read on Datisi because of how Alisae dismantled her wagon and then followed that up by saying you thought her wagon was higher than Kop’s before that took place.

My problem is that I don’t see what about these sequence of events wiped away your concerns and why do they suggest Datisi’s alignment? And what’s funny is that I just glanced at your ISO up until this point and you never stated why you thought she was scum. Which begs the question of why you were scum reading her for thinking her wagon was higher than Kop’s.

No because I don’t think that’s why they were killed. This wasn’t an obvious night kill so scum either killed them because they thought they were PR, to protect a partner, or to frame a townie. Alisae was playing really aggressive and loudly for scum to think she was a PR so I’m much more confident in the last two.

LUV's reads the last week have been only pushing a claimed PR, and is now putting up a lynchlist that contains BOTH PR's.

LUV what is up with that? Can you explain your thoughts behind that?

My scum read of you stems from the Alisae kill. I had mentioned earlier that I believe the theory you shared with someone about most players would night kill Alisae here is wrong. I am still willing to accept it as your experience with them isn’t lengthy as mine and I can see some players who primarily play in the Normal queue doing so. I still believe Alisae’s play here did not set off PR alarm bells for scum though. So my question in regards to you was if you fear killed Alisae or were setup?

The mailman claim to be me is difficult for me to buy because I never seen the loyal modifier attached too. I’ve often seen the loud modifier attached to it. It’s also still very weak role overall and I know the NRG gives town a ton of power of these days.

Luca described my thoughts on Gobble perfectly to be honest.

Ah I didn’t see that. Sure does look like crumb but:

I don’t feel like going through the open subforum to see how often he puts vigs in games
Someone else can do that
Gnite

There was also this post shortly after. I feel scum would have notice that the protective didn’t make the concerted effort to meta the setup designer and reviewers.

Ah I didn’t see that. Sure does look like crumb but:

I don’t feel like going through the open subforum to see how often he puts vigs in games
Someone else can do that
Gnite

There was also this post shortly after. I feel scum would have notice that the protective didn’t make the concerted effort to meta the setup designer and reviewers.

I've never meta'd anything unless I'm just familiar with the person. What on earth would this have to do with ali's credibility as a softed pr?

If I’m a protective in the normal queue, I’d want to know the likelihood of a vigilante to confirm a player who claims it on the off chance I protected their target.

Why do I have to provide reasoning on why everyone wouldn’t have killed Alisae? I said why I think Alisae was killed and you disagreed tchill. Cool. You then pointed out why and I stated that along with their overall play, there is a post that implies Alisae was not a protective PR.

A scum team would have to have shit for brains to think that Alisae was a protective in a game state where a cop was claimed with no additional limitations or modifiers and no red herrings such as a miller. It’s more likely they were killed for the reasons I had stated.

look at the extent LUV goes to discredit the soft from Ali.

if you follow my Klick theory on what he did as scum, its important to realize that Ali being night killed because of the soft is key since klick was the first to bring this up.

LUV constantly discredits the validity of the soft when it was CLEARLY what Ali was doing.

Not at all? I think it’s very reasonable to consider the fact that scum killed Alisae for the reasons I listed and the post I pointed out shortly after the supposed crumb. You’re just stuck in confirmation biased or scum at this point because you have no rebuttal.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’m VT.

I’ll try to be more active. It’s a real struggle for me to stay engaged as town.

well as stated i believed one of the vt's lied at least...

I'm willing to "maybe" narrow the lynch to LUV/datisi

what's the town motivation for claiming vt when you know your'e about to be lynched? think A50 is just that spiteful?

What’s the scum motivation? Wouldn’t scum just claim a PR to incentivize town to keep them alive?

all these post accomplish is "I wouldn't be playing this way as as scum"

literally their only purpose.

Quoting a role claim to support this..

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Shame. Should probably just lynch you then.

I'm not gonna fight it back all that hard. I am totally lost and can't say one player has more equity to be scum over another in this game state, and if we're/I'm resigned to the loss then it doesn't really matter whether I get lynched. I still would rather try lynching someone else just in case we are lucky and we hit scum though.

OK. so I skimmed fast and it seems a couple of you really do suspect me! I dunno how I feel about that either. I mean, at face value I do understand the logic, but I dunno if someone who knows me should go down that route. Unfortunately none of you "knows" me, and that includes those who played with me before (maybe Icon knows me some.. but the last time we played we still were at each other's throats as TvT, so...)

OK, let me ask you all this:

Suppose I am today;s lynch and I flip town. Who's the second main suspect (provided I'm TOWN, so forget all about "your partner is X").

So, I killed Ali because I defended Ali? I also defended Datisi, so why not her? Or Tchill for that matter. I seem to recall I said to give him another day (I hope I'm not confusing my games here. If I am.. disregard).

My problem is if I ISO each of you individually I get the feeling that "this is a town slot".. on its own. Knowing there has to be scum it's a given that I have not one but 2 bad reads. Which ones though? That I dunno, and I feel like I'm paralyzed yet being forces to race in the olympics.

I guess my problem is I haven't been playing micros for long. The bare minimum, for me is 12 players, not 9.

Yeah, yeah.. excuses.. excuses.. then lynch away. I am not going to suddenly get inspired and pull reads out of ass for you.

this dude isnt being survivalistic at all.

and when pressured about the ali lynch all he has to do is bring up the protective slot. he doesn't. I doubt he saw it. If he didn't see it why does he kill Ali?

Have you ever heard of a little phrase called ATE?

I wouldn’t buy A50 killing Alisae if it wasn’t for a post he made where he essentially says we couldn’t lynch Alisae Day 1 without an explicit guilty. This kind off leeway really only applies to RC and we all know how good he as is either alignment.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Don't you think if someone had the proper CC they would have done it already?

The problem with the massclaim is it also outs the protective (if any). If there's no protective, Icon is dead 100% of the time if he is town.

So let me put it this way:

Massclaim >> Doctor is outed >> Doctor is shot (regardless of Icon's true alignment)
Massclaim >> No Doctor >> Icon is dead (assuming he is town)

No Massclaim >> Icon has a chance to do something beneficial (if he is town)
No Massclaim >> An investigative flips or they get a result on Icon.. or they catch the other scum and then claim and we lynch them both (the caught scum and Icon)

VOTE: iconeum

Dude was on every wagon that reached L-1.

Dude claimed cop when he didn't have to. Some say scum wouldn't claim dop d1. Well I say scum also wouldn't be on every L-1 wagon unless he's just that aggressive... He could be.

Alisae's last read was a luca/Icon scum team.

He used his action on the player most likely to be killed if town.

If icon is still alive next day phase he will automatically be my lynch. I'm not gonna risk scum skating by on a fake claim to a victory like that. That's on town if scum win by, fake claiming cop d1.

OK..

VOTE: Icon

If you're right you are doing me a BIG favour bringing me into the spirit of the game.
If you're wrong I get to say "I told you so". It's fun for me either way, and I've got no better option really.

I belive that is L-1 too. Any quick hammer is a scum claim

You can easily replace out if you feel the game is over already or don't intend to play in lylo.

Get me angry enough, cuz that's the only reason I replace out (for fear of saying something that gets me banned)

I belive that is L-1 too. Any quick hammer is a scum claim

Somebody quick hammer. I'll hard tr you in lylo.

Why would I be wrong? And if there's enough reason for you to believe I maybe wrong why are you voting the only claimed PR as we might be heading into lylo?

What other choices do I have?? Do you want me to go back to the not voting pile??

I'll tell you rn if icon flips town and you're still on the board A50 your primary suspect number one

OK. No problem. Let's just hope you're right here and then you can still rub it in my face. Either way I am to blame, one way or another.

VT here

I am out of sync in this game (not the only one) and it feels best if you lynch me today because I won't be of much use in LyLo

so A50 OPPOSED massclaim and he said we should lynch him...

If he's truthfully a n3 BG that believes he'll be lynched before n3 why even claim that? No he wont be of any use because we won't even get to his night phase from his pov.

and yes he lied about it but what good does it do even if he claims it?

and i've already stated the isses with a n3 BG claim on replace in.

he was AGAINST mass claim and said "lynch me"

Except he’s smart enough of a player to claim a potential negative utility role right out of the gate.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

SO IM SUMMARY OF THE TIME I ACTUALLY PUT IN EFFORT:

(descriptions are not in order of when things happened)

Klick: 1st to point out Ali protective soft. Emphasizes "what scum team kills Ali". CALLS FOR MASS CLAIM (in spite of the claimed cop pointing out they dont want the protective outed). Shades Icon HARD until Klick is forced to TR them due to lack of PR's. Shades A50 HARD until A50 seems to willingly be lynched without a fight at all then HARD TR's the slot the rest of the game. HARD TR's LUV the entire game (since the billy "test" which was at the beginning). Claims they'll lynch LUV before A50 but ultimately doesn't have to do anything in that situation. Begins to show aggression towards tchill for the first time in the d2 twilight phase.

LUV: most inactive slot. Discredits the Ali soft. Lists several reasons for voting A50/Gobble then votes datisi. Claims they listed several reasons datisi was scum (I didn't see this). Makes a few LAMIST post. Definitely doesn't look to be scum hunting much at all when active.

A50/Gobble: A50 fights AGAINST the mass claim. Claims VT. Suggest we lynch him because he won't be of use in lylo (Correct concerning a n3 BG if d2 is a ML). Literally gives up before replacing out. Gobble replaces in and claims n3 BG while also claiming they haven't read the thread. Uses a unique tool that doesn't have much equity.

Questions on Gobble: How do you replace into a scum slot in a game you haven't read? Why claim n3 BG when you could claim VT on d2 and then claim a PR d3 with various long term effects (at this point he would still be only other PR, making this believable, because i hadn't claimed yet) You open the door to a protective claim, a tracker claim.. You can claim doc d2. Leave icon alive d3. claim scum killed random n2 to throw shade at the protective... Claim VT d2, kill random n2, claim tracker d3 that tracked icon to the kill. If there's a letter to be read thats the "scum team" if there's no letter then he claims he sent "x" letter but you call him a liar. 1v1 an invest thats been alive 2 days after claim.

A50 was against mass claim. Said "lynch me before lylo". Gobble had a shit fake claim for scum. Yes he can "still" be scum but compared to the other 2 it's not as likely.

Luca: well i hard TR this slot. His progressions on Flippy/tchill scum team come from town. especially when we were both scum by PoE then all of a sudden scum together to strengthen his own thoughts of his PoE pool. He thinks Gobble is scum with a genius fake claim yet he's caught this fake claim. I believe thats town over thinking. Specifically town that thinks they "solved" something (ironically thats what i think atm of myself so this is NOT shade of luca).

gonna be really hard to change my perspective of this at all. Klick shaded icon hard. Klick called for massclaim. Klick brought up the ali soft 1st late game while "wondering" why scum killed ali n1. LUV has been hard TR'd by klick all game. LUV discredits the ali soft while claiming they have multiple reasons to vote for datisi (i never seen it, seen several for voting A50/gobble). A50 fought massclaim. Gobble is doing weird and bad shit if scum (im using the same principles to town clear gobble that i used to town clear flippy. Luca is just my hard TR today. If he's scum great job buddy.

A50 fought massclaim. Did not claim a PR under pressure with nothing else to save him. Gobble made a shit fake claim. Regardless of the thoughts on gobbles claim A50's points still stand. A50 ALONE looks much better than Klick does due to the handling of icon and mass claim.

Funny how you leafed through my ISO and failed to find my reasons for scum reading Datisi..

No because I don’t think that’s why they were killed. This wasn’t an obvious night kill so scum either killed them because they thought they were PR,

to protect a partner, or to frame a townie. Alisae was playing really aggressive and loudly for scum to think she was a PR so I’m much more confident in the last two.

Yeah, sure, lemme just reread parts of D2 real quick. Can I ask you the same (if you ever gave a read on me) and to explain this?

I didn’t like your earlier interactions with my predecessor or your original scum read on Luca. I understand the reaction test only lead to you lean town on him but I feel like town are more likely to present the test as one of many several talking points for that sort of read rather than use it as the basis. And at one point, I felt you asked him a pointless question regarding his town read on you that was based that exact test. Just rubs me the wrong way.

The read list that Alisae was a fan of I didn’t like either. Not just for the Luca read but for the read on my predecessor and the Kop slot. You brought Billy’s meta into the equation for the first time here but never explained why you feel this was his town game at that point or prior. I feel if I had meta on someone, that would be much stronger way to support that they’re town then a simple test.

The Luca read I don’t like more so to my experience with rigid and cold posting. Your posting style is just like your fingerprint, it’s unique. Some people post very blunt and to the point, others are prosaic, some are erudite and some are poetic. Everyone has his or her own voice within their posting, a way of expressing a point or case to the reader. I can tell not only Luca’s voice within his posting. If you wanna see what devoid of life looks like, take a gander at a member named Not Known 15.

When you expanded on this reasoning, I didn’t really agree with it either. Some players can’t help but want to take charge and lead the town because they feel their reads are supreme or just feel like their overall skill level is better than everyone else’s in the room. Wanting to lead isn’t alignment indicative, where said person attempts to lead town is. Then there’s the whole accusing of him faking real life that is just really disgusting.

What I meant by 1783 is that usually when someone isn’t killed because they’re confirmed town, playing very pro-town, or a claimed PR, they are usually killed for one of those 3 reasons. Protecting a partner means that scum killed Alisae because Alisae had a scum read on their partner and was being pushed heavily. Framing a townie means scum killed Alisae to make it look like someone Alisae suspected killed her.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

We lynch A50 today.

Scum probably kill in (klick/luca/me)

LUV/datisi will, still be in the game 100 percent. If not then scum are killing off a mislynch candidate in lylo, which they won't do.

And I'm pretty sure one of the vt's lied and is gonna claim something in lylo. Highly doubt all those vt claims are true.

theres your crumb.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

And three Town PR’s in one nine player game would actually be excessive, especially given the mailman is a strong PR. Again, if we’re basing it off the newbie design then no games have more than two Town powers. I believe Tchill mentioned he hadn’t played a 9p normal before and I believe he’s slipped up here.

Tchill’s claim is just a blatant lie anyway. The timing of it takes away any credibility it might have had: he made sure no-one was holding back their true role before ‘revealing’ his, and his crumb is too vague too add any credibility to it. He’s obviously going to try and set up Uzi by saying he tracked him to Icon, which would be another lie.

This. Not to mention the tracker is as weak as a role as can be and he’s somehow even-night because?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Lil uzi Vert

I'm done with this game. Had a mind to open the day phase naked voting uzi.

Leave it there and if we're both still alive it'll be a 1v1. If I'm wrong Woo-hoo I'm the town jackass.

I did track LUV to icon.

Yeah you’re confirmed scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think as a Tracker I'd have probably tracked Icon last night to add validity to his result. I could see Town-Tracker!Tchill targeting LUV here though.

And wouldn’t one of my hypothetical partners be aware of that I’m being scum read heavily by the supposed tracker and have me not commit the kill?

Thought about that, but I intended to track your luv. I made the "klick is conf scum" post so LUV would do the nk.

Apparently it worked.

Yet you been wanting to lynch me all game? I wouldn’t make the kill under any circumstances if I was scum here and bought your claim.

[Klick]

Nah, in a scumteam of LUV/Luca, Luca is essential. Him doing the kill would be too risky - if he gets caught, you're an obvious partner to him.
I can see that argument against a LUV/gobble team though.

[Luca Blight]

But that makes no sense either, because by my actions I would have confirmed an Uzi:Luca scumteam to two players who were hard townreading me.

Klick, do you seriously believe that claim? I could understand fake claiming it from the perspective of trying to take the NK away, but the fact he is maintaining it and using it to try and frame Uzi is a scum claim in itself. Do you really believe that up until LYLO Tchill as Town tracker wouldn’t have left a meaningful crumb as to his role?

And this is the guy who lambasted Icon for fake-claiming. To not claim Tracker until he did would be even worse Town play, because we have no reason to believe a word he’s saying.