New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Liger_Zero]

I feel like I should replace out. I'd hate too bc SirCakez is doing a good job with this game and I don't wanna force him to find another replacement but I'm in too many games rn and I'm absolutely useless here.

I don't want to read a 'possible replace out' post, but I kind of consider this a town post.

[Expedience]

I did. First you tried to avoid answering by shouting "SCUM BUDDY", then you gave an answer with no explanation, then at being pushed even more you tried to just argue that the modifier makes it more likely to be scum. That is very much you avoiding giving an answer, when it takes you that long to give one to a fairly simple question, and could easily be you trying to think up a reason while you stall.

He's voting the same person as you so what's the problem?

[Expedience]

hey the kop wagon is actually happening. I'm a trend-setter. You're welcome, world.

Kop (6) - Expedience, Lowell, Ircher, MagnaOfIllusion, Nosferatu, Aneninen

Likely scum pushed wagon

projectmatt (2) - cytheflyguy, copper223

Likely reason why the Kop wagon picked up steam now and not yesterday when it made a bunch more sense.

Titus (2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) - Titus, Shaziro

Likely town screwing up and cross OMGUSING each other.

copper223 (1) - Nahdia
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt

Likely scum waiting to see where the wind blows before moving from old wagons.

Not voting (1) - Egg

this is here to signal wtf are you doing.

Try to remember this snapshot of the game-state if I flip and/or if the players I am scum reading start flipping as expected.

VOTE: matt

I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though

I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.

purple

= what Lowell wants people to see as his reason for switching his vote

blue

= what i see.



lowell is scum.

I do not agree with you, Lowell learnt what a Commuter is in between his posts.

[Expedience]

Nahdia, can you please claim if you are power role or not?

[Expedience]

We should still lynch Kop, his claim is basically [generic uncommon pr that probably won't get cced]

[Expedience]

Nahdia, can you please claim if you are power role or not?

ACtually don't do this, I don't know why I said that.

[Expedience]

Titus (2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) - Titus, Shaziro

Likely town screwing up and cross OMGUSING each other.

copper223 (1) - Nahdia
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt

Likely scum waiting to see where the wind blows before moving from old wagons.

Not voting (1) - Egg

this is here to signal wtf are you doing.

Try to remember this snapshot of the game-state if I flip and/or if the players I am scum reading start flipping as expected.

I really agree with this part of the post at least.

[Expedience]

zakk, I hate the direction you are pushing in but the way you're doing it sounds vaguely town.

-

Is it normal for you as town to come to these immediate, disagreeable, and severe conclusions

[Shaziro]

I did. First you tried to avoid answering by shouting "SCUM BUDDY", then you gave an answer with no explanation, then at being pushed even more you tried to just argue that the modifier makes it more likely to be scum. That is very much you avoiding giving an answer, when it takes you that long to give one to a fairly simple question, and could easily be you trying to think up a reason while you stall.

He's voting the same person as you so what's the problem?

Because if something pings me as scummy, I'm going to call it out. If it means they are buzzing, awesome, if it means they are trying to roll with a mislynch, that'll get sorted and stopped if we realize that's their goal, and if not its just more rope to hang them, right? Did I miss some mafia theory thing here?

Also,
VOTE: Kop

[zakk]

hey the kop wagon is actually happening. I'm a trend-setter. You're welcome, world.

Kop (6) - Expedience, Lowell, Ircher, MagnaOfIllusion, Nosferatu, Aneninen

Likely scum pushed wagon

projectmatt (2) - cytheflyguy, copper223

Likely reason why the Kop wagon picked up steam now and not yesterday when it made a bunch more sense.

Titus (2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) - Titus, Shaziro

Likely town screwing up and cross OMGUSING each other.

copper223 (1) - Nahdia
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt

Likely scum waiting to see where the wind blows before moving from old wagons.

Not voting (1) - Egg

this is here to signal wtf are you doing.

Try to remember this snapshot of the game-state if I flip and/or if the players I am scum reading start flipping as expected.

VOTE: matt

I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though

I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.

purple

= what Lowell wants people to see as his reason for switching his vote

blue

= what i see.



lowell is scum.

I do not agree with you, Lowell learnt what a Commuter is in between his posts.

Lowell

has been here

SINCE TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING SIX

ifeellikeimtakingcrazypills.gif

[zakk]

zakk, I hate the direction you are pushing in but the way you're doing it sounds vaguely town.

-

Is it normal for you as town to come to these immediate, disagreeable, and severe conclusions

You've played with me as town before, you tell me

When I get really inside my head I can twist almost anything to look scummy to myself, I know that

But I'm also aware of that so I try not to be TOO confbiasy fwiw

But yeah. See other games of mine. I can think of one in particular at least

[zakk]

We should still lynch Kop, his claim is basically [generic uncommon pr that probably won't get cced]

Agree, and I doubt I will get support for Lowell or Titus any time soon

[zakk]

What? Why? That's about the first time you've even mentioned Magna in the game, apart from at the very beginning. Is it because I just lightly attacked him?

I haven't talked about him much and it was one of my first posts in the day. Why do you consider this tied to yourself? I really do think this site is full of people who really think its all about themselves.

What? Why? That's about the first time you've even mentioned Magna in the game, apart from at the very beginning. Is it because I just lightly attacked him?

I think this is the best option right now:
VOTE: Magnaofillusion

Given, the wagons, I am not really sure what to think of them.

Excited you're still here with us. I was pretty bummed when you were about to be replaced.

Talk to me about magna. I have a town read on him.
Also, talk to me about Titus pls

Magna has seemed kind of fake, and his participating in neighborhood didn't give me good vibes. He was the last one to talk, and it was near the end of the time it was open, which could be nothing, however it seemed like he did so in order to avoid one on one discussion with players. If one of the neighbors is scum, I do think its most likely him over Copper223. As far as Titus goes, she just seems very transparent here, I don't see any underhanded things with her. I mean if you can point to something that she has done that manipulative in a scum fashion, I may reconsider rereading her slot.

On mobile so can't crop for relevance easily but

Pls check my Iso from late D1 and early D2 for EXACTLY what you asked for

[zakk]

Yeah, so someone should vig Copper prob. if we don't lynch him.

Do

Not

Direct

Power

Roles



Ever

[zakk]

Nahdia and Expedience have been prodded.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck i didn't realize it'd been so long.

Oh hi beetle juice

1 minute between these posts



Find it really hard to believe you're so active elsewhere on site and in site chat and in the speakeasy user popularity thing, and yet you can't find time to post here and have no opinions

If you're town, please prioritize this game much higher or replace out




Also, skreeee

[zakk]

A quick search of your profile tells me you have made OVER 300 POSTS, in OTHER GAMES, since your last post here, and that's not even including general discussion or site chat or other MS related things

Pls care to explain?

[zakk]

And copper your responses to me make very little grammatical sense

Pls try again

I'm too tired rn

Night

[copper223]

@Zakk
Explain your town-read on Magna, that should be grammatically correct enough to understand.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m posting this because in our rapid fire back and forth I had with Copper yesterday I think the following point needs to be clearly understood by Town.

After I called out Copper for his turn about on Kop and attacking that wagon he posted that I was misrepping and he had clearly moved to Kop as Town well before the wagon. That’s clearly not the case and the manner in which he tried to peddle it is scummy and indicative of an attempt to cover for scum-motivated play surrounding the Kop wagon.

This is the post where Copper claims to have made his change on Kop clear –

Have to take a brake cause it's a boring process and I am trying to work as well, but (some of this relies on the assumption about Ircher and Titus):

Magna is likely scum, he has voted only town players including all three top wagons yesterday, the theory that there is one in the hood is also still the most likely and scum are peddling it probably to look smart because they know it's the case, right Nos? His push on me yesterday coordinates well with what his likely buddies were doing.

Nahdia is likely scum, she has kept the same scum reads since the start of the game, she pushed the Ircher wagon, my early crap wagon, dropped in to lynch Persi again and Anen is right that her PM read is a likely buddy read (high five if you were right). There are strong signs of coordination with Nosferatu as well and of taking advantage of and setting up Titus.

Nosferatu is likely scum, she jumped on my early crap wagon, which Titus kindly provided,

then voted for the Kop_slot (whom I am now assuming is a worse version of KTS

), did her best to get Persi lynched without voting him cause otherwise it would have been a scum-pile (that knowing he would be lynched is a likely slip, she knew her teammates could hammer), her coordinated push with Nahdia today on Anen. is another sign that they are working together (one fills the list for the other when manipulating Titus after all).

Project Matt is likely scum, I was fooled by the sensible position he took on my crap wagon, but he "promised" to keep an eye on it when Titus once again gave him an excuse to jump on it, which I now think is code for: I am not going to commit now cause my teammates are already on it, but if it starts to look juicy I'll jump. The rest of his agenda is pretty helpful to scum as the big post will highlight.

For the fifth I am going with Egg, hard defense of Magma equating him to Persi in a clear TvT (pretty scummy if Magna is scum as I expect), he is positioned to jump on copper, which again matches up well with what the other suspects are doing, but doesn't really want to cause that would compromise Magna, while pushing the much safer and defensible reads on shit/new-town (Ircher, Kop and Shaz). Still have to check his position on Anen.

VOTE: Magna

I’ve bolded the portion which Copper claims is a clear indication that he was at that point Town reading Kop’s slot. Firstly look carefully – he saying that Seth was a troll which isn’t alignment indicative. Trolls can and are scum in games. And secondly – he’s not affirmatively calling the slot Town. This is reinforced by the following later posts he makes.

What the votes say, assuming Titus is having a bad game and being used as a battering ram to take the heat, by scum:

Anen: town getting pushed by scum.

Cythefly: bad town being spoon-fed by scum and lapping it up, or scum being very brazen under the cover of being a newbie.

Egg: see previous post, likely scum. @Titus why no early scumread on Egg?

Expe: Town not having a fun time.

Ircher: omgus or vote on the biggest wagons is the pattern that emerges here, this is such a terrible pattern you should be ashamed if you are town, and in this world you are.

Liger: town newbie.

Magna: follows Titus on Copper (whitout a vote) under the cover of clearing his PT, but then doesn't have anything to ask in said PT, follows Titus (and PM) on TBG, which is consistent with the initial hypothesis, the votes are both bad and very opportunistic.

Nahdia: Scum with Nos PM and Magna, taking advantage of Titus whom she pockets early with a town-lean. Particularly worrisome are her discarding her early Magna read for no reason (finished distancing) when Titus asked her for further names, her coordination with Nosferatu (push on me, push on Anen, Nos was likely positioning herself to go on Ircher with Nahdia as well with that stats post) and her read switch on Anen (PM also switches and the reason he gives is pretty weak, he liked a lot of Anen's early posting but now he looks weaker).

Nos: see pre-post read.

PMatt: Other than what mentioned with other players, very early town read on both Titus and Ircher (consistent with the scum strategy hypothesized here).

Shaz: new-town doing his own thing.

Shotty: In this world he is more likely duped town than scum, the emphasis on wanting to lynch Ircher/Titus with a vengeance while compromising if the game state requires it makes his reads likely genuine (and crap).

Titus: town by definition in this world.

Zakk: Like shotty his reads in this world are garbage but genuine in the way he is pushing, he also has solo votes on slots that nobody is even looking at and where is the support from his supposed teammates in that or why is he picking fights with lowell and ETL when he already is against Titus & co, more so than Shotty this here is misguided town.

His large analysis post and a perfect place for him to show his Town-read on the Kop slot. Yet that slot is no-where to be seen in the analysis. There are 14 names on that list. At this point 17 players are alive. Subtracting himself there should have been 16 reads on that list. Yet Lowell and Kop are both mysteriously absent from his analysis. We see later in that day at 2578 that he responds to Lowell’s correct statement that his analysis was junk with “Ok … you can hang.” This is not the reaction of Town who has 5 solid scum reads earlier (who Lowell was not included in) –this is the reaction of scum who thought they had a good position in Lowell’s reads and when there is any sign that isn’t the case implies Lowell should by lynched.

Then we get his reasoning for why Kop was excluded from the analysis post …

...Kop -was- missing. What's your reason behind that, copper?

That was a troll slot and now a lurker that replaced at deadline, analysis is pointless at the moment.

He clearly is not reading that slot as Town at this stage. He’s actively advocating that the slot is unreadable as a combination of Troll and replacement lurker.

In summary Copper’s attempt to portray that he was Town reading Kop before the wagon on him formed does not hold up to scrutiny by actually reading his posts.

He’s scum and has been throwing buzzwords like misrep and Appealing to Repetition to cover for his scummy play.

[Lowell]

@zakk, I've been here since 2006, but that includes five years or so off and I normally play "normals" as much as possible--mostly because I don't like games with confusing roles. So, no, I hadn't seen commuter before. Or if I had, I had forgotten about it. I could have wiki'd it I guess.

I agree with Liger that nahdia's "omg replace me" post--while I'd like to not read too much into it--looks very town. I also think exp's bizarre "claim, no jk don't claim" sequence likewise looks town. Though I can't say why... something about the openness of it, maybe. zakk gets townpoints too for his aggression, though I could see that as scum pressing his advantage as well, depending what kind of mood I'm in when I read it.

I'd like to hear the case on kop a little better explained. Like I said his power wouldn't seem to be such a great loss, but my inclination towards calling him town was the over-eagerness with which he claimed. It just doesn't seem like something scum would want to do until they KNEW they were in big trouble. Why not just, be more active, if you're scum?

[copper223]

I’ve bolded the portion which Copper claims is a clear indication that he was at that point Town reading Kop’s slot. Firstly look carefully – he saying that Seth was a troll which isn’t alignment indicative. Trolls can and are scum in games. And secondly – he’s not affirmatively calling the slot Town. This is reinforced by the following later posts he makes.

Yes look carefully, I say like KTS (who flipped town) and I place it in the context of a Nosferatu scum read (the claim being that push from her is likely opportunistic, she took advantage of someone objectively scummy but more likely to be town) and that also highlights why I changed my mind.

I was scum reading the slot analytically D1, after I realized Seth couldn't be read logically (which is what I said to Shaz. when he asked me about the lack of analysis) I am now using other tools to try and figure out that slot's alignment, and the fact that basically confirmed scum Magna is pushing him makes him more likely to be town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I was scum reading the slot analytically D1, after I realized Seth couldn't be read logically (which is what I said to Shaz. when he asked me about the lack of analysis) I am now using other tools to try and figure out that slot's alignment, and the fact that basically confirmed scum Magna is pushing him makes him more likely to be town.

Look at the backtrack attempt right here ... yesterday copper claimed to be Town reading Kop way back (which I just showed to be false in my last post) but now we get "I'm Town leaning Kop because Magna is pushing him" which is exactly what I called him out for originally - he's suddenly calling Kop Town only after the wagon picked up steam. He's scrambling for anyway out of being correctly called scummy by me yesterday.

He's stipulating to exactly what I said was scummy play yesterday when he spent yesterday saying I was misrepping him.

He's scum.

[copper223]

Now about my read changing only after there was a viable wagon on Kop:

In post 2512, copper223 wrote:
then voted for the Kop_slot (whom I am now assuming is a worse version of KTS)


This is when I changed my mind on the slot, at this point there were exactly 0 votes on Kop.

This is what I said yesterday and there is no backtrack, I am repeating what I said and further explaining since for reasons unknown you are still able to post in this game instead of being hanged for the lies you're spewing.

You are the one insisting I claimed I had a town read on kop and then claimed said read was a buddy deflection that came up at the height of the wagon (which is patently false as my post highlighting my read progression on the slot amply demonstrated).

[copper223]

If you are interested in why Magna is scum and you are not Magna let me know, I don't have the time to go back and forth with scum especially when it doesn't seem like town is paying attention to the walls.

[Ircher]

@zakk, I've been here since 2006, but that includes five years or so off and I normally play "normals" as much as possible--mostly because I don't like games with confusing roles. So, no, I hadn't seen commuter before. Or if I had, I had forgotten about it. I could have wiki'd it I guess.

I agree with Liger that nahdia's "omg replace me" post--while I'd like to not read too much into it--looks very town. I also think exp's bizarre "claim, no jk don't claim" sequence likewise looks town. Though I can't say why... something about the openness of it, maybe. zakk gets townpoints too for his aggression, though I could see that as scum pressing his advantage as well, depending what kind of mood I'm in when I read it.

I'd like to hear the case on kop a little better explained. Like I said his power wouldn't seem to be such a great loss, but my inclination towards calling him town was the over-eagerness with which he claimed. It just doesn't seem like something scum would want to do until they KNEW they were in big trouble. Why not just, be more active, if you're scum?

But Kop knew he was in big trouble; that's why he did it then -- to try to derail the wagon.

Both Magna and I have laid out the Kop/Seth case, so please go ISO us to see our reasons.