mini normal 2226; who won

[DkKoba]

lol mcat getting killed d1

[Lukewarm]

I believe that no one has claimed a role that would have gun that has not been verified yet at this point (although we still need a NM claim)

Chaos has claimed to have found the single mafia with a gun, and has verified the only town role that would have a gun, his role is now functionally useless. If he is town, then he cannot give us any info on any other slot in the game.

So, I feel like balance wise, it would not actually be all that strong as you seem to think math. He can gets results on 2 out of 13 players, and even both of those give slightly inconclusive results.

All "no gun results" are in conclusive, because 2 scum does not have a gun. So a "no gun" basically means nothing.

the 2 "have a gun" result are also inconclusive, because one is town and 1 is scum.

The fact that he managed to find both players in 3 days is actually pretty impressive if true, and I feel like if you run models (which you said you did, ngl, I am not taking the time to do so), most games this ability would actually be pretty useless, or possibly even detrimental if he finds the role cop first.

Cool again assume all town

Chaos checks Gamma votes Gamma. Gamma claims rolecop who checked Umlaut no result. Titus backs up Gamma. You get three conf town

Assume Titus doesn’t block Umlaut lock scum Gamma outs it.

Assume Gamma checks town.

Gamma outs the vanilla ans the vanilla is locktown

No matter how you slice it you get confirms.

Again, you are targeting the skills in a way that is useful.

Imagine chaos targeted anyone with no gun. He has no information from that result

Imagine titus targeted someone, and the kill went through. Did she target scum, and because it is loyal nothing happened? did she target town, but not the target of the night kill? who knows?

[Aristeia]

the only real difference is the town checker didn't understand her role was investigative in nature and the town didn't know they were up against scum ascetics and the scum also didn't know who their traitor was and the town got an extra delayed IC and some neighbors who had a fun time feuding with each other.

I don't think this setup is so incredibly unbalanced that the mafia can't possibly win.

Let's try to win the game first before we criticize Mastina about how balanced or unbalanced the setup is.

[DkKoba]

seeing who was on that scumteam vs who was on the town team its no surprise scum could steamroll that tbh

[Aristeia]

Quick skim of that setup doesn’t have the same problems.

because?

[Titus]

Do scum have multitasking here?

[DkKoba]

its not in the game notes so no

[DkKoba]

math/datisi is a spicy team read i have rn :3

i refuse to let go of my townread on NM because it means ceding i have finally lost my 100% read rate on him

[Titus]

I want to vote Chaos here, as I think the team is Chaos and Koba here.

Gamma and Koba is a near zero chance.

[MathBlade]

Quick skim of that setup doesn’t have the same problems.

because?

Because no forced innos.

Assume Chaos checks a VT no gun. Gamma checks a VT (other than Chaos). Titus blocks a random Townie not killed.

You get an inno there.

Then the other VT is inno’d until we get to same point and this setup is suggested. Gamma either checks them or they come into the PoE again but by then Gamma becomes alignment cop and has checked others thus narrowing the PoE.

[Titus]

math/datisi is a spicy team read i have rn :3

i refuse to let go of my townread on NM because it means ceding i have finally lost my 100% read rate on him

That's impossible.

I jailkept Datisi n2 with no nk. I'm loyal. Unless you think scum no showed multiple nights in a row, that dog don't hunt. A Datisi/Math team doesn't do that.

[MathBlade]

Gamma and VT inno = 2 confirmed town.

You cannot escape N1 without two confirmed town with the setup proposed. It’s literally impossible.

[Lukewarm]

I am actually surprised that our investigative was not a pt cop. Given the setup info, that is what I was expecting.

[Aristeia]

Quick skim of that setup doesn’t have the same problems.

because?

Because no forced innos.

Assume Chaos checks a VT no gun. Gamma checks a VT (other than Chaos). Titus blocks a random Townie not killed.

You get an inno there.

Then the other VT is inno’d until we get to same point and this setup is suggested. Gamma either checks them or they come into the PoE again but by then Gamma becomes alignment cop and has checked others thus narrowing the PoE.

How is that different from the Checker checking a VT and the Neapo checking another VT and the Loyal JK preventing a kill on N1?

[Titus]

I kinda feel like we have to eliminate Math/Not_Mafia but I want to eliminate Chaos.

[DkKoba]

math/datisi is a spicy team read i have rn :3

i refuse to let go of my townread on NM because it means ceding i have finally lost my 100% read rate on him

That's impossible.

I jailkept Datisi n2 with no nk. I'm loyal. Unless you think scum no showed multiple nights in a row, that dog don't hunt. A Datisi/Math team doesn't do that.

ah correct.

ok

well luke/math goes back on the table with an optional ari boxing in :3

[MathBlade]

Quick skim of that setup doesn’t have the same problems.

because?

Because no forced innos.

Assume Chaos checks a VT no gun. Gamma checks a VT (other than Chaos). Titus blocks a random Townie not killed.

You get an inno there.

Then the other VT is inno’d until we get to same point and this setup is suggested. Gamma either checks them or they come into the PoE again but by then Gamma becomes alignment cop and has checked others thus narrowing the PoE.

How is that different from the Checker checking a VT and the Neapo checking another VT and the Loyal JK preventing a kill on N1?

Checker checking a VT isn’t an inno. Checker could be blocked hit an ascetic. (Redirected non normal only)

Here Gamma gets a result of VT. That act of the result + Vt = inno unless mod puts in a goon.

Mod puts in a gun then guilty to gunsmith.

Town also threw by yeeting the Checker.

So again town threw..scum won because town threw proving my point

[DkKoba]

I kinda feel like we have to eliminate Math/Not_Mafia but I want to eliminate Chaos.

vetoed

[DkKoba]

VOTE: MathBlade

anyways i said there was 1 scum in math/titus/gamma and im standing by that now :3

[MathBlade]

Town should have never yeeted the Checker in that game. Either they didn’t give checker time to claim or didn’t think it through as checker is almost never a mafia role

[MathBlade]

Prove it. Elim me I flip town then setup is busted I don’t have to post or we lose because good scum fake claim I can’t find.

Win win.

[Aristeia]

Checker checking a VT isn’t an inno. Checker could be blocked hit an ascetic. (Redirected non normal only)

Here Gamma gets a result of VT. That act of the result + Vt = inno unless mod puts in a goon.

Mod puts in a gun then guilty to gunsmith.

Town also threw by yeeting the Checker.

So again town threw..scum won because town threw proving my point

I don't understand your first line, the only thing that could block the Checker in that setup was the Loyal JK...

The Neapo is objectively stronger than either Informed gunsmith who can only find 1 scum and a gated rolecop that we have.

on top of that the scum team is uninformed who their traitor is and the town has an extra Innocent Child (Delayed) to boot.

My point was that such a setup

has

passed review in the past by Mastina and she rejected the contention that it was unbalanced or townsided in the post game so there would be no reason that she would not create a setup that is similar in terms of power balance.

[DkKoba]

I want to vote Chaos here, as I think the team is Chaos and Koba here.

Gamma and Koba is a near zero chance.

why am I scum?

With me being near clear - you need to actually scumcase me here.


Your scumread on chaos is laughably terrible based on d2 and as I'm town - your teamread is equally bad to me.


Chaos is gonna resolve at night in most likliehood - you can have fun with that tho.


Dude's claim is even complex enough to where when I normally don't wanna clear people based on mechs, the level of creativity in the claim makes me not wanna bother.




You just want me to be scum here out of ego prob. I shielded Alch after he showed he was town - and you helped push him over.

Sit down and assume I'm town instead of trying to push this shitty world.

[DkKoba]

Checker checking a VT isn’t an inno. Checker could be blocked hit an ascetic. (Redirected non normal only)

Here Gamma gets a result of VT. That act of the result + Vt = inno unless mod puts in a goon.

Mod puts in a gun then guilty to gunsmith.

Town also threw by yeeting the Checker.

So again town threw..scum won because town threw proving my point

I don't understand your first line, the only thing that could block the Checker in that setup was the Loyal JK...

The Neapo is objectively stronger than either Informed gunsmith who can only find 1 scum and a gated rolecop that we have.

on top of that the scum team is uninformed who their traitor is and the town has an extra Innocent Child (Delayed) to boot.

My point was that such a setup

has

passed review in the past by Mastina and she rejected the contention that it was unbalanced or townsided in the post game so there would be no reason that she would not create a setup that is similar in terms of power balance.

that sounds like mastina yes

[Aristeia]

my point isn't to litigate if the town played badly in that game or what they should or should not do with their checker.

My point is that this setup is even more townsided than the current claimed setup and reviewed by Mastina and she rejected the claims that it was townsided in the post game so it's well within what could have been passed into existence.