Mafiascum.net

I don’t trust mastina to direct the game to the right place, and I think this is the better slot to start with if we’re going to go through the POE.

@Ydrasse come vote this. Like I re-read the posts you quoted and they’ve been in my POE for a bit so I want to see if I’m off.

@mastina I want to believe in your push for furtiveglance but I don’t. Like I’m not feeling it. I think Uncrowned’s posts are far more damming (particularly how they were grouping players based on Roden’s flip), and I would bet they’re trying to lay low not to attract too much attention in the hopes that Town implodes. I don’t think we should let them skate here.

In post 2846, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 2844, Ydrasse wrote:and like i kinda feel uncrowned doesn’t care at all about what’s happening today or really yesterday either

you are correct!

i'm just observing for now. i have reasons.

I’m very curious as to what reasons you could possibly have for basically saying that you don’t care to actually make an argument against someone in the hopes they’re Scum.

In post 437, Uncrowned wrote:so now he's too obvious to be scum but still worth putting up for hammer? or is he not anymore? this feels off

Btw, up to here, Uncrowned had voted Ircher alright, but they’re arguing for the vote to move from Ircher, saying it “felt off” once Ircher was put at L-1 by Vivax. In terms of focus, outside of fire and Ydrasse, all of the shade they’ve cast up to then had been on flipped Town {Vivax, Lukewarm, Ausuka}. But not a whole lot of focus on the person they’re actually voting. I would also note they tried to place Titus towards their top of the pyramid early.

In post 455, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 449, petapan wrote:i mean just the idea that it was being brought up strategically to take pressure off a buddy, i really don't buy that being a thing someone (even titus) actually thinks about. stuff like that almost always gets found organically.

ok, this makes more sense. though I guess the question becomes how do you determine what is and isn't organic

I feel like this might be a good thing to take note of though and return to once some flips have happened

And this is soft defending Titus.

In post 470, Uncrowned wrote:VOTE: Roden

time to play the game my friend

And then they find a reason to jump off once Nero starts saying that Ircher might be a mis-execution.

In post 886, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 598, fireisredsir wrote:it kinda seems like her thoughts are surface level intended to sound reasonable tho? like she hasn't said anything super out there it's just that they don't feel like they quite click into a consistent mindset, like luke was saying

it's like you see opportunities to make comments but then not provided much follow up? like the titus vote in general doesn't feel super convincing

also, couldn't we apply this same logic to you? what makes your two slots different? up until your vote on her, you had very little to say about her so what changed? from what i'm aware of, her main string of posting had already occurred before your vote on me, and you didn't have a lot to say then

And here Uncrowned is just attacking fire for placing the magnifying glass on Titus?

Like, just purely from their play D1, Uncrowned should be permanently in the POE.

In post 1103, jjh927 wrote:Titus is town here and I have very little doubt about it

Also - haha this is terrible looking back.

In post 2209, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 2205, Roden wrote:Why are you so

desperate

to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

notice as well the complete disregard for not only calling out the fabricated E-1 thing, but everything i said as well about out interaction prior, instead opting to just... do whatever this is.

this is scum basically giving up and throwing shit on the wall hoping something sticks. if you really cared about the interaction like you pretended to, this would not be your approach.

desperation would be the word, yes.

We really should just kill this slot. Like now.

In post 2894, mastina wrote:

In post 2824, furtiveglance wrote:

In post 2823, mastina wrote:

In post 2820, furtiveglance wrote:not just because of the claim (which I actually think is fake but still town).

As a reminder, still not here until like 12 hours from now minimum, but this, I GOTTA comment on right now.

You know why?

In post 4390, Nashville Dreams wrote:I don't necessarily trust the claim but I don't feel comfortable stating what I think mastina is doing.
~Titus

I'm actually quite certain that Titus in that game at one point used furtive's almost

exact

wording. (The iso is 6 pages long and ridiculously hard to search, so I can't find it. It could've been after I was dead or before, hard to find.) Where she said, effectively:
"I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

And furtive, in almost the exact wording I remember Titus using, goes "I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

I don't believe the similarity is coincidental.

And Titus was scum that game?
So you're saying, either:
I read my scumbuddy's past scumgames to get some tips on how to act in exactly the same way as them so we all look the same as a scumteam

or:
Mafia always interact with me scumreading them in the same way e.g. "unlucky, wrong but town!"
Neither of these points are good.

How fortunate that neither was what I was getting at!

My point is that Titus was scum

this

game.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, has a scum PT to talk to her scumbuddies in.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would be able to convey her thoughts on me to her scumbuddies.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would also give play advice before going down--she would give advice to her scumbuddies and try to set them up with a path to victory.

You should have zero familiarity with Multiball 2.
So you should have zero similarity in treating me the way Titus treated me in Multiball 2.

Ergo:

furtiveglance treating me the same way Titus treated me in Multiball 2 indicates that he was part of the scum PT with Titus

.

It's a scumslip.

I think this is the post of yours that I'm best responding to, although in a different post you said that I'm not addressing you directly/reaching out to you. That's true, I don't think that has value anymore, so I'm trying to prevent other players from scumreading/voting me, and trying to discredit what you're saying.

As for this post: Any player being pushed has two options regarding a player pushing them (three if you count null reading). Town reading or scum reading. I'm townreading you. Titus, as scum, townread you in a different game (which I've never read) when she was mafia. If you make it a binary choice of town/scum reading a player, and assign each one 50%, that's 25% chance that me and Titus 'treat you the same way'. It's not so unlikely, as to prove that we are buddies in a PT together. The logic you used to get here is insanely bad, so yeah I'm just highlighting that for other players.

In post 2840, PenguinPower wrote:Interesting mastina isn’t voting you though.

I only have one vote and I actually believe furtive is more scum than fire, believe it or not.

I think both are scum, but I will vote whichever has more votes.

In post 2842, Ydrasse wrote:why is uncrowned town this game btw

Content + read progression + stances taken, mostly.

In post 2844, Ydrasse wrote:and like i kinda feel uncrowned doesn’t care at all about what’s happening today or really yesterday either

Sure, but that's a towntell, not a scumtell.

In post 2883, Dannflor wrote:

In post 221, Titus wrote:I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

i forgot i think this makes SS!scum less likely

Yes.

So the question would be: who's the scum?

You said it yourself: you don't think Klick is scum anymore.

You are also not scum.

Ydrasse is basically conftown so it's not her.

Who's that leave?

{Malakittens, PenguinPower, furtiveglance, Uncrowned, Andresvmb, jjh927, fireisredsir}, as a start.

I very strongly believe that Andres is town by play here.
I quite strongly believe that PenguinPower is town by play here.
I believe jjh is town by play here.
I believe Uncrowned is town by play here.

Which would leave just: {Malakittens, furtiveglance, fireisredsir}.
If you believe Mala to be town, then it's just {furtive, fire}.

In post 2885, Dannflor wrote:what does it accomplish to claim you targeted Ausuka + Lukewarm?

Yo Dann I asked this same question of Roden.

Perhaps the people criticizing my point against Roden would like to justify why they are using my point against Roden, against Klick now, when they were defending Roden for doing it?

In post 2895, Malakittens wrote:Oof
Mastina with the BARK
WHERES THE BITE

In post 2731, mastina wrote:

In post 2275, furtiveglance wrote:This game is getting exciting, but also frustrating. I'm at a point where I think I have a broadly correct poe of Dannflor (it should be Dannflor not RC btw Datisi), Malakittens, Something Smart, maybe Titus/Ydrasse, but it's hard to get those votes going. Let's see if we can revive the S_S wagon.
VOTE: Something_Smart

Uh oh.

In post 198, furtiveglance wrote:We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.
VOTE: Ircher

Uh-oh.

Spoiler: (tl;dr: avoided voting both Titus AND Roden)

In post 1250, Datisi wrote:

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Uncrowned

Titus [3]:

Roden, fireisredsir, Lukewarm

Vivax [2]:

Ydrasse,

furtiveglance

In post 1350, Datisi wrote:

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Malakittens

Something_Smart [5]:

furtiveglance

, PenguinPower, Titus, Uncrowned, Vivax

Titus [3]:

Roden, fireisredsir, Lukewarm

In post 1500, Datisi wrote:

firing

Roden [6]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Malakittens, Ydrasse

Something_Smart [3]:

PenguinPower, Titus, Uncrowned

RCEnigma [3]:

furtiveglance

, fireisredsir, Vivax

Titus [2]:

Roden, Lukewarm

In post 1711, Datisi wrote:

firing

Roden [6]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Malakittens, Ydrasse

Titus [3]:

Roden, Lukewarm, Vivax

Something_Smart [3]:

PenguinPower, Titus, Uncrowned

RCEnigma [2]:

furtiveglance

, fireisredsir

In post 1751, Datisi wrote:

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Malakittens, Ydrasse

Titus [4]:

Roden, Lukewarm, Vivax, Ausuka

Malakittens [2]:

furtiveglance

, Uncrowned

In post 2250, Datisi wrote:

firing

Roden [7]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Malakittens, Ydrasse, Titus, Uncrowned, PenguinPower

Titus [4]:

Roden, Lukewarm, Ausuka, Dannflor

Something_Smart [1]:

furtiveglance

mastina [1]:

fireisredsir

In post 2264, Datisi wrote:

vote count 2.final

firing

Roden [9]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Malakittens, Ydrasse, Titus, Uncrowned, PenguinPower, Vivax, Lukewarm

[HAMMER]

Titus [3]:

Roden, Ausuka, Dannflor

Something_Smart [1]:

furtiveglance/size][

UH-OH.

...Maybe I had the "right idea, wrong person" with an f name that was deepwolf powertowning?

'Cause initial glance: that ain't a good luck for furtive.
Didn't vote Titus at all, vote on Ircher looks suspect, vote on Titus while claiming to have suspicion on prior day that isn't actually displayed in the votecounts = verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry suspect.

VOTE: furtiveglance

In post 2738, mastina wrote:

In post 2337, furtiveglance wrote:

In post 2331, Ydrasse wrote:i have a role where i can check to see if people have pts(EXCEPT THE MAFIA PT) and join them if they do
titus doesn’t have any pts

dayummmmmmm
I think Titus is lying then
VOTE: Titus

In post 2341, furtiveglance wrote:

In post 2338, Titus wrote:

In post 2331, Ydrasse wrote:i have a role where i can check to see if people have pts(EXCEPT THE MAFIA PT) and join them if they do
titus doesn’t have any pts

I am waiting for the mod. Technically accurate. I had a conditional action to masonize mastina if no one visited her. It resolves last in nar.

I do actually think Mastina will back this, so the smartest thing is to
UNVOTE: Titus

In post 2347, fireisredsir wrote:im going to wait for someone smart to tell me what this means
i don't think titus' claim makes sense tho

(I'm starting to think it might just be furtive + fire, but like: still have 20 pages to view AND THEN cross-reference with players' stances across the game, both flipped scum and the living players ON the flipped scum.)

etc.

In post 2902, Andresvmb wrote:@mastina I want to believe in your push for furtiveglance but I don’t. Like I’m not feeling it. I think Uncrowned’s posts are far more damming (particularly how they were grouping players based on Roden’s flip), and I would bet they’re trying to lay low not to attract too much attention in the hopes that Town implodes. I don’t think we should let them skate here.

I would bet you are wrong and that Uncrowned was just town with the same vibes as Ydrasse.

Seriously, without the knowledge that Ydrasse used her role to confscum Titus, look at Ydrasse's iso.
Look at Uncrowned's iso.

They are basically identical.

The difference is genuinely only that Ydrasse has since conftowned herself by having confscumed Titus. (Also, more players are familiar with Ydrasse and have played with her.) Genuinely, there were players on previous days who were saying what you are saying right now of Uncrowned, about Ydrasse; "Ydrasse is laying low to not attract too much attention" or something similar.

The proof that Uncrowned is town is that Ydrasse is town and Ydrasse was doing the very things Uncrowned did.

Uncrowned has a very good read progression on multiple players, one which demonstrates a lack of scum perspective.

In post 2904, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 437, Uncrowned wrote:so now he's too obvious to be scum but still worth putting up for hammer? or is he not anymore? this feels off

Btw, up to here, Uncrowned had voted Ircher alright, but they’re arguing for the vote to move

away

from Ircher, saying it “felt off” once Ircher was put at L-1 by Vivax. In terms of focus, outside of fire and Ydrasse, all of the shade they’ve cast up to then had been on flipped Town {Vivax, Lukewarm, Ausuka}. But not a whole lot of focus on the person they’re actually voting. I would also note they tried to place Titus towards their top of the pyramid early.

You know what those players all have in common?

They were nightkilled by the scum.

You know what scum players have a tendency to avoid doing?

They tend to avoid nightkilling the players that they, personally, are scumreading.
(Obviously, this isn't a guarantee, but is a .)

That post is not something that is an unreasonable post for town to make and in fact looks antiscum. It's not really innately a town view so much as it is a view that scum are unlikely to have the nuance behind it which Uncrowned demonstrated--especially since Uncrowned's views demonstrate he's not the one making the scum nightkills here.

In post 2905, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 455, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 449, petapan wrote:i mean just the idea that it was being brought up strategically to take pressure off a buddy, i really don't buy that being a thing someone (even titus) actually thinks about. stuff like that almost always gets found organically.

ok, this makes more sense. though I guess the question becomes how do you determine what is and isn't organic
I feel like this might be a good thing to take note of though and return to once some flips have happened

And this is soft defending Titus.

I think you're reading it backwards; that ain't a soft defense. That's a soft Titus-could-be-scum take. It's explicitly acknowledging that peta might be onto something, something that extra flips would then help to evaluate the accuracy of.

In post 2906, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 470, Uncrowned wrote:VOTE: Roden
time to play the game my friend

And then they find a reason to jump off once Nero starts saying that Ircher might be a mis-execution.

That is a towntell, not a scumtell. Ircher was in antispew mode at that point. Uncrowned hopping of Ircher does not further the scum wincon there.
At that stage, hopping off of Ircher does nothing to prevent the Ircher wagon from going through.
At that stage, hopping off of Ircher removes any credit that could be had from bussing him.

So hopping of Ircher hard-townspews him.

In post 2910, furtiveglance wrote:

In post 2894, mastina wrote:

In post 2824, furtiveglance wrote:

In post 2823, mastina wrote:

In post 2820, furtiveglance wrote:not just because of the claim (which I actually think is fake but still town).

As a reminder, still not here until like 12 hours from now minimum, but this, I GOTTA comment on right now.

You know why?

In post 4390, Nashville Dreams wrote:I don't necessarily trust the claim but I don't feel comfortable stating what I think mastina is doing.
~Titus

I'm actually quite certain that Titus in that game at one point used furtive's almost

exact

wording. (The iso is 6 pages long and ridiculously hard to search, so I can't find it. It could've been after I was dead or before, hard to find.) Where she said, effectively:
"I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

And furtive, in almost the exact wording I remember Titus using, goes "I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

I don't believe the similarity is coincidental.

And Titus was scum that game?
So you're saying, either:
I read my scumbuddy's past scumgames to get some tips on how to act in exactly the same way as them so we all look the same as a scumteam

or:
Mafia always interact with me scumreading them in the same way e.g. "unlucky, wrong but town!"
Neither of these points are good.

How fortunate that neither was what I was getting at!

My point is that Titus was scum

this

game.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, has a scum PT to talk to her scumbuddies in.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would be able to convey her thoughts on me to her scumbuddies.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would also give play advice before going down--she would give advice to her scumbuddies and try to set them up with a path to victory.

You should have zero familiarity with Multiball 2.
So you should have zero similarity in treating me the way Titus treated me in Multiball 2.

Ergo:

furtiveglance treating me the same way Titus treated me in Multiball 2 indicates that he was part of the scum PT with Titus

.

It's a scumslip.

I think this is the post of yours that I'm best responding to, although in a different post you said that I'm not addressing you directly/reaching out to you. That's true, I don't think that has value anymore, so I'm trying to prevent other players from scumreading/voting me, and trying to discredit what you're saying.

As for this post: Any player being pushed has two options regarding a player pushing them (three if you count null reading). Town reading or scum reading. I'm townreading you. Titus, as scum, townread you in a different game (which I've never read) when she was mafia. If you make it a binary choice of town/scum reading a player, and assign each one 50%, that's 25% chance that me and Titus 'treat you the same way'. It's not so unlikely, as to prove that we are buddies in a PT together. The logic you used to get here is insanely bad, so yeah I'm just highlighting that for other players.

Nice try but you leave out the most damning part:

In post 2820, furtiveglance wrote:(which I actually think is fake but still town).

You are specifically calling my claim "fake, but town".

That doesn't fit into the read binary narrative you're trying to present.

That is the scumslip involved.

Titus, in a different game, said "I think mastina is town, but her claim is fake".
You, by your own confession, have no familiarity with Titus from that game.
Titus, in this game, was scum, and would communicate her thoughts to her scumbuddies.
You, in this game, said "I think mastina is town, but her claim is fake".

That isn't "I think mastina is town, but wrong on me"--you're quite correct that's a reasonable stance to take!
But it isn't what you said.
You brought my claim into it. Specifically my claim. Calling the claim fake.

And is the scumslip. To call my claim town-but-fake, in the exact way Titus in a different game called it town-but-fake.

In post 2909, Andresvmb wrote:We really should just kill this slot. Like now.

no sir

ok dumping some reread notes, first up, looking over klick im not really sure why i had been townreading there

maybe i got pocketed by the early townread on me idk

started out a bit awk with 114, not really sure why that's something they care about

in general i think the progression of the readlists looked towny to me but is p easy to fake especially when they aren't giving a lot of reasons for their reads. makes it look like they're sitting back and quietly solving the game but there isn't really much evidence of that actually happening

oh ok i remember more of why i was townreading now, i liked 694 as a response at the time. i still kinda do but i also still don't really love the original post that i was questioning anyway. idk

reading their more recent posts i think they just come across as exceptionally reasonable to me, and it tends to be very hard for me to find those types of players as scum. the seeming lack of re-evaluation after roden and titus flip through 2079 to 2764 is actually kinda really concerning. those lists are very similar despite the strongest scumread and one of the townreads in the first one being revealed as wrong. and especially the lack of re-eval on SS feels like they are trying to maintain a poe while not thinking that critically about the game

furtive i also had as town early and... i kinda still feel that? he just has like a tone to him that's like... excited to be solving things. i don't think he pulls the "guess my reads" game in 143 as scum

i guess he knows that i read him as town off a similar energy in turing test and maybe he'd make efforts to replicate that, but idk. it doesn't feel performative at all (in the more traditional way -- it feels more likely to annoy people than anything and that just doesn't seem like his style as scum)

through the rest of d1 he just feels consistently present and like his reads are naturally evolving in response to the thread. i don't really feel any sense of him trying to manipulate things or force reads to happen

that mostly holds through the rest of the game so far, it seems like he has more priority on just being there and less on control or projecting towniness.

also maybe dumb but i feel like i can really relate to the just... being annoyed by mastina using questionable logic to write massive posts with extreme levels of confidence on something that you know is wrong. and now especially, thinking that she's town anyway. i feel some of those vibes in his posts and they're the same ones that ive felt. idk, i think he's probably just town

andres im conflicted on. early posts felt scummy to me, had a low key thought that peta was killed bc when i expressed that, peta said not to rush into that read bc andres is easy to read given time. so that + me not feeling like andres is at all clearly town has me worried a bit. ig actually peta was probably killed for suspecting titus but anyway

and looking through... there's a lot of places that i think really kinda look like pushing scum agenda? like his first post after disappearing for 700 posts is 772 (the "too" in this is very weird) is attacking probably one of the easiest ircher voters to push in vivax

diminishing the importance of the slip in 828 is the same line titus used

1040 shading mastina for not dying, while pushing for vivax. 1050 hmmm

i thought 1123 was weird at the time, felt like he was overemphasizing how much his view of the gamestate was shaken up for the sake of trying to appear town, when i don't think that much really changed?

1169 also randomly throws titus in a solve despite having no expressed suspicion there since he last said he wouldn't vote for her

BUT i feel like there's kind of a lot of town energy in his argument with vivax starting around 1602. it's also a pretty nuanced mechanical point that im not sure if scum really would be thinking about

aaand then 2256 is a super weak reason to not vote titus while still expressing suspicion. almost so weak that i would kinda expect scum to be too self-conscious to post it

idk reading his iso i feel like he's almost constantly blatantly pushing scum agenda but at the same time it's hard for me to get past that one section that feels really towny. im curious to hear from the people who have him as town and if they have past experience that's informing that/if they agree with peta that he's easy to read

ok i thought 384 from rce was p bad and then uncrowned shows up in 384 and calls it goated posting hmmmm

469 felt like such a weird line to go down at the time, and looking back now it easily could have been an attempt to pivot things away from ircher, right when ircher first returned to the thread which is when scum might have thought they had a chance to go somewhere else

574 also kinda a weird blanket discredit of the ircher wagon

since d1 he had the slightly overaggressive push on roden and then has mostly disappeared

i don't feel very strongly about this tbh, i think maybe part of me wants to believe that my early vibe read was correct and he's scum, but i only see a couple things that feel like they could have scum motivation (the push away from ircher as soon as he returns to thread, and hard pushing the roden wagon d2). his lack of feeling a need to influence gamestate lately could just be town ig, dunno