Mafiascum.net

In post 2881, Solstice wrote:

In post 2863, Noraa wrote:The reason I dropped the babytalk is cuz I've been feeling super moody lately. I made some alts with more serious personalities to help me have some sort of outlet for my anger/sadness from various things. I was having one hell of a time trying to be happy this game. Im not trying to guilt trip/AtE with this but I just wanted to say that you don't understand what's happening on my side of the screen and a bubbly online personality isn't easy to keep when you're not feeling that way. I won't mention this again but I do hope you take this into account if you actually are town.

[Can confirm this is how cutesy talk works (and subsequently why that portion of the Noraa case doesn't work for me)]

In post 2863, Noraa wrote:Creature doesn't seem to justify any of his votes/reads which ... this may sound mean but is far less than what I expect from someone with a 2016 join date.

Ok short reads list for Ircher.

Ircher - promoted to TL
mastina - still think they are a strong TR, yesterdays entire play spewed town
Solstice - also think strong TR, yesterdays entire play also spewed town, especially the case on BM, felt extremely genuine
Pichu - demoted to TL
after these three there basically are only nulls/SRs
The most important ones imo are probably
Murder- strong SR
Double - SL
Creature- SL

Something like this?
The SRs is messy. I'm not really decided cuz I feel like a ton of people look really scummy if u sit down and think about it and there are places where Gloria didn't really agree so .. idk.

[I do really feel like Noraabear is town here. I think it's going to stay evident as we move forward as well because Noraa's scum play seems to fall apart later when she has to case the last remaining townies. i don't know how to explain this read beyond what's already been said. She's engaged and giving reads and solving etc whatever idk she's too comfortable. I also think Gloria will obvtown probably assuming theyre town]

[now I wanna know if Murder is being genuine or not because I still haven't exactly decided. Initial reaction was yes, he's genuine with this, does remind me of how Murder likes to find the scum (see D1 of death curse where he hard pushed a bunch of ppl to death). Maybe a more accurate way to describe is that he wants to "be the one who finds the scum". I got this impression from how competitive he and Pooky were in that game. Anyway, this confidence and "let me shoot my shot" attitude reminds me of that.]

[At the same time, I recall him garnering townreads for his hard confidence on a few townies being scum (and subsequent sadness when they weren't), so it's possible he's trying to emulate that again by taking a hard stance on a player who will flip town.]

In post 2830, Bell wrote:He slow rolled his read of noraa to today. It's like watching someone preparing for the batting box in the deck circle. He's lining it up.
You could argue it's trejectory instead but iso him halfway at the end of the day and tell me you don't see it.

[Now here's how Bell saw it. I would kinda expect town!Murder to have a similar progression -- but I haven't read it so! let's do that. I am actually extremely interested in whether or not Murder comes off as fake]

Spoiler: MURDERCAT on Noraabear

In post 603, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 602, Ircher wrote:Murder, did you draw scum? What makes you think this is obviously town!Noraa? Why does townreading Noraa rn equate to being town?

I think there is a perception that Noraa is a strong scum player, but I don't think scum Noraa would do well in this setup. I don't think Flavor took such an obvious pick, especially considering Noraa tends to not do well under pressure. Noraa is also lim bait despite her claims, and this is a pretty strong plist so there's not a lot of easy miselims, another reason FL wouldn't pick there. Also I think mastina is scummy for 25 and I expect scum to use Noraa as a place to park votes on D1. It is possible that Bell scum is being specifically coached to pocket Noraa, but I would think that scum would be a bit more subtle about it. There's also other reasons to TR Bell, like he doesn't really like playing scum.

[i am of the same opinion with regards to Noraabear being drafted. Wonder what Murder thinks of this now]

In post 855, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 840, mastina wrote:I'm pretty sure that's the extent of my Noraa knowledge.

You should skim a town iso of hers before you call her scum for blatant OMGUS

[This is really similar to one of your points against Noraa]

In post 2743, MURDERCAT wrote:Noraa has trouble making up cases as scum. Look at these posts in death curse (links rather than quotes due to length):
8962
9127
9233

Now compare to the case that Noraa has on me in this game:
2513
2523

For full context, the following posts are:
2514
2524

In both cases, there is no actual analysis happening. Noraa is linking a lot of quotes, providing a superficial description of the events, and claiming that I am scum off them without actually providing any reasoning behind her claims just as she did in my last scum game with her.

[It's not exactly the same -- you are slamming her for "Terrible casing / lack of analysis", which is a bit different from blatant omgus, but still.]

[I think it is worth noting Noraa was absolutely forced into scumcasing you in Death Curse -- it was a 1v1 situation. Her resulting case was not great, likely as a result of that. here she doesn't have to do that. Additionally, 2514 and 2524 are really not the same as that Death Curse Xylo. Those two posts are meant to quote your read progression on BM and highlight why it makes you and BM have partner equity. I don't really think it's a standalone case for you being scum. Sure it's mostly quoting and summarizing, but i dont think the point was to scumcase you.]

In post 1461, MURDERCAT wrote:Noraa SRing Ircher because Ircher said she is a strong town player is 10/10
And honestly I'm here for it because I think that was a weak buddy attempt.
Noraa you might actually be on this game.

[So clearly Murder wasn't planning this from the very start of the game, at least that much is evident. I see that he generally had Noraabear as townleaning]

In post 1858, MURDERCAT wrote:I'm getting shivers from 1845

VOTE: Polar Bear Express

[And here we go. as a refresher:]

In post 1845, Polar Bear Express wrote:You know what? I think I want Double the Trouble dead today.
1) BM softed pr. theres a big possibility he'll be cleared/guiltied overnight and we'll be set and fine tomorrow without the risk of mislimmed a pr day 1. There really is no rush and if he's softing pr, we shouldn't be risking mislimming a pr. The activity argument is kind of damning but I've been criticized of not posting enough in town games before so idk how much weight I wanna put in it. I believe Mastina is passionate and believes in this read but I am not that convinced and I think theres plenty of time to sort this slot and maybe his night action can clear him, etc.
2) Double looks terrible. Each head has thrown shade and then the moment someone criticizes, the other heads like "eyyooo I don't agree with it so alls good"
3) Ircher wagon is dying and he is STILL one of my main SRs
4) Dunn is not happening today and
hold up I gtg.

[As you might recall, I had weird feelings from this post too. It felt jarring when i read it. I don't know how to describe it. To clarify now though -- this one post is not going to make me think Noraabear is scum, it's not *that* bad. It was just odd enough to make me reevaluate Noraabear for a little while.]

In post 2051, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2046, Polar Bear Express wrote:I don’t like the way he’s been pushing us, it feels very disingenuous to me. He sees Noraa as easy miselimbait and I feel didn’t engage me in good faith.

You haven't been here and I haven't even given my reasoning yet lol

In post 2052, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2049, Polar Bear Express wrote:This is what Murderkitty is trying to kill us over? When did not wanting to possibly risk miseliming a TPR get considered scummy?

nope

In post 2069, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2067, Polar Bear Express wrote:Well we are a hydra, so are you saying you’re townreading me?

I'm kinda nothing reading you because to be honest you haven't been around much. If you continue to solve then I'll reconsider the slot but for now I'm going of Noraa content and I have reason to believe she's scum for it. I'm still not going to get into it unless Pooky asks for it.

[What was the point of holding off?]

In post 2183, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2176, Polar Bear Express wrote:

In post 2172, MURDERCAT wrote:BM I think you basically have to go at some point this game for multiple reasons. I'd rather do Noraa first but I think you probably need to go some time and you won't get NK'd. If you are town I empathize with your position but it really seemed like you were softing to me.

why do I need to go first?
you are the third person to say you empathize with him after Norwee and I.
why do you feel the need to make sure everyone knows you were dead set that he was softing?

I think I see why Gloria didn't like you that much.

-nornor

I don't even know what to say to this lol

In post 2189, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2187, Polar Bear Express wrote:why can't you reply?

Can you associate anything in that post with a reason to SR me?

In post 2196, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2192, Polar Bear Express wrote:If it flips red, I think u've been very over-explainy and mushy around the BM wagon which makes you a very likely partner. If it flips green, ur probs still scum anyways.

Lol

[Noraabear isn't exactly responding with detailed analysis to scumread Murder, to be fair.]

In post 2280, MURDERCAT wrote:Well I will be posting a Noraa case if Pooky wants it.
Though maybe it is just fine to do it, I'm not sure if there is supposed to be more with BM or not?

In post 2294, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2284, Polar Bear Express wrote:What do you guys think? I think his play here seems very different.

Lol did you even read the games or are you just gunna link my 4 year old isos?

[I think Norrabear are forcing a scumread on Murdercat here and I am starting to become sympathetic with murdercat interpreting this as a scumtell from them as it is reminiscent of endgame Death Curse, sure.]

In post 2307, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2301, Polar Bear Express wrote:Are you even reading my posts? Check the link before you embarrass yourself with this nonsence shade.

Yeah you linked a 4 year old game, said nothing about it, and linked death curse.
What in that game is like what I am doing in this game?

[It's like, yeah -- linking stuff and not saying much else is similar to what Noraa did endgame in Death Curse. She's not automatically scum for it though -- and you yourself pointed out that blatant weak OMGUS isn't a reason to scumread Noraa. Also, why would scum!Noraa feel the need to OMGUS you over town!noraa exactly? She

had

to do it in Death Curse, there was no choice. Here she could do whatever she wants and she's choosing to OMGUS but still doesnt really have to. like there's no pressure on Noraa to fake a case here -- and that's exactly why I think the case in Death Curse was so weak. Here it is

easily

driven by emotion or gut pings or whatever]

[But I see the similarity. It's not inconceivable to me that town!Murdercat sees this as scummy. Continuing]

In post 2488, MURDERCAT wrote:@Pooky
Should I do the Noraa thing or should we let the solstice thing happen. Because there's like gunna be like 50 pages of ate from Noraa once I do it.
Also like, you know I'm town right? And what I'm doing? Because I want you to trust me on this Noraa case, I don't want it turned around on me.

In post 2490, MURDERCAT wrote:I think Pooky feels bad. But can I offer you obv scum Noraa?

[I really am starting to lean in the direction that Murder is for real. i don't think scum!him hard pushing town!Noraa is really going to give that great of a payoff.]

In post 2535, MURDERCAT wrote:Noraa we talked about this you can't just quote my iso you have to give reasons why it's scummy

[This is a direct quote from Death Curse i believe]

In post 2541, MURDERCAT wrote:I am reading your posts and giving them about as much thought as I am giving FLs.
Thanks for the content though, this is exactly what I was hoping for.

In post 2547, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2546, Polar Bear Express wrote:This is a really shitty mindset to have but whatever.

perspective slip

[WARNING: THIS READ NEVER WORKS BUT I TRY IT ANYWAY]

[i feel like Murder is being a bit of a dick here if he's scum into town!Noraa, because this behaviour towards her isn't justified at all. like he has to actually believe he has the right to ignore her posts in order for this to not be a dick move in his eyes. BUt this read doesnt fucking work like i would think it would so whatever. Okay it works sometimes but not enough for me to be satisfied with it.]

[It's like -- he says something mean if Noraa is town, but he is so sure that she isn't, that he then proceeds to call her post where obviously her feelings are a bit hurt by it a "perspective slip". like lol]

In post 2569, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 2567, Bell wrote:it's not tho. It never is.

Are you TRing Noraa? Have you read 1845?

[I see that 1845 still produces a great visceral reaction deep in murdercat's gut (presumably)]

In post 2608, MURDERCAT wrote:Every time
you talk to Noraa
without giving a read on her
I get closer to voting you

[Reminds me of Murder getting overconfident he has the solve D1 in Death Curse. Eerily so. is it more likely he is aware of that play and tries to emulate it, or that he is simply just playing similarly? probably the latter]

In post 2659, MURDERCAT wrote:Nah I'm gunna go for Noraa still

[I mean.. he did what he said he was gonna do.]

In post 2830, Bell wrote:He slow rolled his read of noraa to today. It's like watching someone preparing for the batting box in the deck circle. He's lining it up.
You could argue it's trejectory instead but iso him halfway at the end of the day and tell me you don't see it.

[Bell, you kinda describe it like he was subtle about it, or maybe I misunderstood. But Murdercat basically was yelling Noraabear is scum for the entire second half of D1, which i don't necessarily find scummy I guess. I don't interpret it as scum trying to be consistent because I feel like it'd look the same as either alignment, at the very least? this is like what i'd expect him to do either way.]
[Made it. there are a few reasons I don't think Murder is being disingenuous here..]

[A.) Shared initial bad feelings towards 1845]
[B.) Noraabear's response to his push is mostly weak OMGUS to be fair, and some parts do resemble Noraa's endgame play in Death Curse. I do

not

interpret this as scummy for her, however]
[C.) For better or for worse, the overconfidence in Noraabear being scum is just what I observed from Murdercat in Death Curse. Like he was pretty much basing his opinion on BM off of Noraa.]
[D.) I shouldn't believe in this stuff but I feel like he was being too mean to Noraa if he doesn't actually believe they're hard scum.]
[and most important E.) With regards to Bell's point that he's been lining up the Noraa push. Yes, he set the precedent for today -- it was clear this is what he was going to do. However, I don't see how that is necessarily scummy. How do you differentiate this from a townie having a strong vanity scumread D1 -> casing them overnight -> come out swinging D2? There was no subtlety to this behaviour from Murdercat, as well, like he said he was gonna do this and he did it. If Bell's point is that Murdercat kinda strategically laid back on casing Noraa until now, then I guess that is something i'm curious about. I'm not really sure what the point of holding off on saying why he thought Noraabear is scummy was, and I can see why Bell would interpret this as scummy. I see that Murdercat says it was because he wanted to let Pooky do his thing first.]

[so that's where I'm at. I ended up sticking with my initial reaction, but I am much more solid on Noraabear!town now, and I do feel that this is a real case from Murder, although I don't give that the same degree of certainty I give the Noraa read.]

[I would very much like to hear more about

Bell

's interpretation of Murder's Noraabear progression if possible as we have reached opposite conclusions. It is possible I misunderstood what you meant by "slowrolling" the read.]

[I also have a question for

Murdercat

: How does giving your reasoning for Noraabear being scum on D1 impede Pooky's ability to work? (like how you held off in 2069)]

~Morning