I think it would help me re-engage with the thread. I'm also going to read the last ten pages now. I don't know what it is, but I have been struggling to engage with the game on a level deeper than "when can we yeet someone?".
In post 2947, Yume wrote:If I were scum, why would I want the one of few persons who can successfully peg me as such to replace in? To be clear, jjh can't be pocketed by me, so if you're thinking along those lines, you'd be wrong.
Also, Yume, is the fact that you sell prunes a serious claim?
Yes, but it's in code, the code PPF should know.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:49 am
by Bunnyonce
Ok, thanks.
I made a list of all the claims I have seen so far:
Radical Rat
- Protects from and removes burns. The player they act on is informed if this happens. Works during Noon.
Mastina
- Town Limited Astrologer - Checks whether players have Sun/Moon attunements (all Sun/Moon Cult are Sun/Moon Attuned, but some Town have an attunement, too). She cannot target certain players, and will be informed in the event of that. She cannot target the same player twice. Works during Noon.
professotic
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Scarf
Past Present Future
Yume
- something something check, something something prunes which is code for something.
In post 2947, Yume wrote:If I were scum, why would I want the one of few persons who can successfully peg me as such to replace in? To be clear, jjh can't be pocketed by me, so if you're thinking along those lines, you'd be wrong.
Also, Yume, is the fact that you sell prunes a serious claim?
Yes, but it's in code, the code PPF should know.
Understood.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:57 am
by Bunnyonce
@unwnd
In post 2703, unwnd wrote:[...]
you use so much character space and verbal jargon to essentially say the same thing in every line.
[...]
Is it fair to say you scumread mastina partly because of this?
I have never played with mastina before and I agree that multiball probably interferes with whatever meta argument people may be trying to use to read her, so I'm far from a "mastina is posting therefore she is Town" purist.
Still, even never having played with her before, it seems pretty clear to me that writing long posts is just something mastina Does? When I see someone with an unusual posting style, I tend to just shrug it off and assume that's how they are as a person and that it is NAI until proven otherwise.
Does this like, make any sense to you, and how does it affect your read on mastina?
In post 2912, mastina wrote:{furtiveglance} (it still doesn't look like his play from Datisi's Cafe, but his play doesn’t actually look town and has many objectively scummy stances)
I agree with this and think furtive is likely to flip scum personally
Whyyy though and what are the scummy stances?
-Aisa
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:17 am
by T-Bone
In post 2948, Bunnyonce wrote:@T-Bone: thanks for patiently rehashing stuff you've probably said somewhere at some point :3
In post 2945, T-Bone wrote:To circle back to your first question. This is multiball, the only way I or anyone can be informed of someone's alignment on Day 1 is if we're on the same scum team (or there is a role like mason). So it couldn't be true that I am scum who knows Mastina is town and trying to mislim her. At best I would be scum who knows Mastina isn't on my team.
Sure, I understand that. I think it still fits Yume's point for you to be scum in multiball, though. Her point is something like "You would have reconsidered your read if you weren't informed". Change the word "informed" to "scum" and the argument still works? Like, "You would have reconsidered your read if you actually cared about who we limmed beyond it not being you or your partner."
To answer your second it's because I was scumreading Mastina and Yume was defending Mastina so hard. It's a ballsy play by Yume if they are in fact scum, be a use all they have to do is sit back, let Ydrasse or whoever was gonna hammer instead, and then if Mastina flips town use that as an excuse to push the likes of me or Mathblade.
If Yume is in fact playing 4D chess by anticipating that's how I would read their play then my hats off to them there's nothing I can do.
Yeah, I've never really strongly bought into the idea that if someone is off a miselimination then they have more "credit" to push whoever was on the miselimination. I don't see what's so rocket-science-y about scum being on a miselimination and still pushing others on the same wagon the next day? Like, all you need to say is "I think someone misled us yesterday".
In post 2946, T-Bone wrote:
Because I had voiced that I was thinking if Mastina flipped town then scum!Yume was trying to pocket for towncred.
Am I interpreting this correctly? You voiced that if mastina is town, then Yume might have been trying to pocket her. So why is it impossible for Yume to predict that if she stops acting like she is pocketing mastina, then you would start townreading her?
-Aisa
Re the first quote. I can only play based on what people say, not what they don't. Yume used specific language and never clarified their language or said 'oh I meant something different' so all I could do is use the language they used.
Re the second. Except that Yume specifically was claiming who they would go after if Mastina flipped town. Yume has consistently presented Mastina as town and their read as a forgone conclusion. So I was specifically reacting to the way Yume played.
Re the third quote. So again Yume was presenting their play that Mastina being town was fact. Not something they suspected, not something they merely read, but as something that was a fact. So, maybe Yume's vote is part of a master plan and you can make that argument if you want. It changed my view of Yume as a player because their vote went against basically their entire ISO.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:18 am
by T-Bone
In post 2947, Yume wrote:If I were scum, why would I want the one of few persons who can successfully peg me as such to replace in? To be clear, jjh can't be pocketed by me, so if you're thinking along those lines, you'd be wrong.
I'm not criticizing you I'm explaining why I think your vote for Mastina changes my read of you because that's what Bunny asked.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:23 am
by Yume
Good, but can we just end the day, and soon? I am kinda annoyed it's being dragged on and on...
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:25 am
by Radical Rat
In post 2958, Yume wrote:Good, but can we just end the day, and soon? I am kinda annoyed it's being dragged on and on...
But we're so close to doubling the original deadline! Just a few more days!
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:26 am
by Past Present Future
In post 2958, Yume wrote:Good, but can we just end the day, and soon? I am kinda annoyed it's being dragged on and on...
In post 2958, Yume wrote:Good, but can we just end the day, and soon? I am kinda annoyed it's being dragged on and on...
Your vote on Bunny?
I would, but they haven't done anything scummy, imo, and I am still suspicious of Rat. Sell me?
They haven't been townie and I want this day to end. Scum tend to float in the middle in multiball. I don't have energy to heavily case. Rat is a doctor style claim. Not limming that day 1.
In post 2948, Bunnyonce wrote:@T-Bone: thanks for patiently rehashing stuff you've probably said somewhere at some point :3
In post 2945, T-Bone wrote:To circle back to your first question. This is multiball, the only way I or anyone can be informed of someone's alignment on Day 1 is if we're on the same scum team (or there is a role like mason). So it couldn't be true that I am scum who knows Mastina is town and trying to mislim her. At best I would be scum who knows Mastina isn't on my team.
Sure, I understand that. I think it still fits Yume's point for you to be scum in multiball, though. Her point is something like "You would have reconsidered your read if you weren't informed". Change the word "informed" to "scum" and the argument still works? Like, "You would have reconsidered your read if you actually cared about who we limmed beyond it not being you or your partner."
To answer your second it's because I was scumreading Mastina and Yume was defending Mastina so hard. It's a ballsy play by Yume if they are in fact scum, be a use all they have to do is sit back, let Ydrasse or whoever was gonna hammer instead, and then if Mastina flips town use that as an excuse to push the likes of me or Mathblade.
If Yume is in fact playing 4D chess by anticipating that's how I would read their play then my hats off to them there's nothing I can do.
Yeah, I've never really strongly bought into the idea that if someone is off a miselimination then they have more "credit" to push whoever was on the miselimination. I don't see what's so rocket-science-y about scum being on a miselimination and still pushing others on the same wagon the next day? Like, all you need to say is "I think someone misled us yesterday".
In post 2946, T-Bone wrote:
Because I had voiced that I was thinking if Mastina flipped town then scum!Yume was trying to pocket for towncred.
Am I interpreting this correctly? You voiced that if mastina is town, then Yume might have been trying to pocket her. So why is it impossible for Yume to predict that if she stops acting like she is pocketing mastina, then you would start townreading her?
-Aisa
Re the first quote. I can only play based on what people say, not what they don't. Yume used specific language and never clarified their language or said 'oh I meant something different' so all I could do is use the language they used.
Re the second. Except that Yume specifically was claiming who they would go after if Mastina flipped town. Yume has consistently presented Mastina as town and their read as a forgone conclusion. So I was specifically reacting to the way Yume played.
Re the third quote. So again Yume was presenting their play that Mastina being town was fact. Not something they suspected, not something they merely read, but as something that was a fact. So, maybe Yume's vote is part of a master plan and you can make that argument if you want. It changed my view of Yume as a player because their vote went against basically their entire ISO.
First quote: that's somewhat fair, but I think that a balance needs to be struck between interpreting posts super literally and being too flexible. My judgment is that you were being too strict.
Second quote: hmm, ok, maybe.
Third quote: hmm, ok, maybe.
Have you arrived at a new read on Yume's slot or are you still trying to assess it?
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:48 am
by Yume
VOTE: Bunny
Okay.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:53 am
by Radical Rat
In all seriousness though, I still have no idea what to make of mastina. Originally, my suspicion was that her and MathBlade had potential for being two rival scum. Over time, my read on Math got better, and my read on mastina worse, but the claim does seem to be real and has some kind of interaction with MathBlade's, and both of them are able to be specifically investigated by Yume apparently, so all three of them are entangled pretty tightly here now. And they can't all be on the same team, unless that was just one hell of a show Math and mastina put on earlier, so I think the best thing to do is just let that group sort itself out for now.
So in terms of who I want to see eliminated most, I'd say probably DDS. I think their play has been detached and opportunistic in a way that definitely doesn't seem Town, and they've been sinking steadily all game for me. However, I'm not going to try to start a vanity wagon at this point. I think we're all ready for this to be over with, so the real question isn't who I want eliminated most, it's am I okay with eliminating Bunnyonce?
p-edit removing vote
Yeah, I am. I've been waffling internally quite a bit here, but lean toward the scum side of the scale, especially when Greeting's posting. In particluar, the suggestion that I could still be Lunar Cult was technically plausible given the information we had at the time (though mastina's info now confirms I cannot be), but it doesn't seem like a Town thought process to me. Like looking for excuses to make the elimination still happen instead of actually evaluating my claim. So yeah, I'm pretty okay with this.
P-Edit:
Consider this intent then. Last reads, questions, anything worth claiming?
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:02 pm
by Bunnyonce
Is it bad to say I've been hoping this would happen so it would put an end to this endless Dusk, and that I've only not said this earlier to avoid slipping our PR/not PR status?
Claim
Vanilla Townie
.
Please let me have ~20 minutes to get any last thoughts out and check the hydra chat with Greeting to see if there are any of his opinions I should share with you, too.
Vote on unwnd was scum, nothing towny from them or STD. Just gamestate indicates it. If I close my eyes and picture the postgame with all the flips, Ydrasse is cult. That's all I can say.
Sus wagoners: Scarf, T-Bone, Enchant/Mastina (possibly)
Mastina's claim was dubious. Scum will also be informed of attunements.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:13 pm
by Yume
We just want the day to end, so...
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:18 pm
by MathBlade
I find it worth noting in general the hard defenders of Mastina (minus Yume) now are saying she’s sus when bunny is wagoned.
Will compile a list when I get time. Rough day.
If Bunny is scum partners likely in those people.
If Bunny is town then on Mastina on Bunny is where I would focus
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:20 pm
by furtiveglance
In post 2971, MathBlade wrote:I find it worth noting in general the hard defenders of Mastina (minus Yume) now are saying she’s sus when bunny is wagoned.
Will compile a list when I get time. Rough day.
If Bunny is scum partners likely in those people.
If Bunny is town then on Mastina on Bunny is where I would focus
I don't want to run up Mastina again (on account of the claim). I'm just saying that this Bunnyonce wagon is sus.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:22 pm
by Radical Rat
There's not going to be a wagon that isn't sus as hell, unfortunately. Scum want to eliminate the other scum too, and Town is getting sick of the endless Dusk, making everyone more willing to just go for things. I'm not immune to this, though I WOULD be kicking up a bigger fuss if one of my actual townreads were up there, but fortunately they are not.
In post 2971, MathBlade wrote:I find it worth noting in general the hard defenders of Mastina (minus Yume) now are saying she’s sus when bunny is wagoned.
Will compile a list when I get time. Rough day.
If Bunny is scum partners likely in those people.
If Bunny is town then on Mastina on Bunny is where I would focus
I don't want to run up Mastina again (on account of the claim). I'm just saying that this Bunnyonce wagon is sus.
Then it’s your responsibility to push someone else.
