Mini 2006: Scummer in this game UPick GAME OVER

[mastina]

If I were scum, couldn't I just say "yes" anyways? Don't get how it confirms anything.

Why yes, yes you can!

But by answering yes, you are confirming the information we claimed is accurate.

And by confirming the information we claimed is accurate.

You are confirming us as town.

Because IF SCUM CANNOT GET AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. (Something WHICH CAN BE CHECKED BY NON-MASONS ASKING THE SPECIFIC HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION I GAVE.)
And WE GOT THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.
Then that means we can't be scum.

So your alignment doesn't matter. You saying 'yes' means Nico Robin and I are conftown, so long as the moderator privately declines to answer.

[NicoRobin]

Somebody hammer.....

[NicoRobin]

I impound you, with all of my heart, to just hammer.

[NicoRobin]

Like, what's the point of townreading me if you won't even trust me on this simple thing?

[NicoRobin]

If you truly townread me, then work with me and hammer, right here, right now.

[NicoRobin]

cos town need to work together.

[mastina]

The full list of options here, to reiterate.
-Cheetory, privately, confirms that hypothetical masons are conftown. Given this, Nico Robin and I could access this information as scum...but because we know that there are masons in the game, we know off of Cheetory's answers that the masons are town thanks to his answer; there cannot be scum masons.

-Cheetory, privately, declines to answer if hypothetical masons are conftown. Given this, Nico Robin and I cannot access this information as scum. We then subdivide.
*beeboy/Lovebird deny the information, claiming they cannot get the answer we got from Cheetory. Given this, you know there is a liar between the mason pairs. Subdividing further.
~Nico/mastina are bullshitting; they made the whole thing up, with beeboy/Lovebird's as the truthful version. (In which you need to explain why this FLAGRANT violation of occam's razor makes so much as ONE iota of sense.)
~beeboy/Lovebird are lying; Nico/mastina are telling the truth and masons are conftown.
*beeboy/Lovebird confirm the information, vouching for Nico Robin and mastina's story. We then subdivide.
~If beeboy/Lovebird are masons, then they are town. Nico Robin and mastina also have access to the information; given this, when the information is unavailable to scum, mastina and Nico Robin are conftown and beeboy/Lovebird have a fair chance of being conftown.
~If beeboy/Lovebird aren't masons, then they may or may not be town. However, because they are vouching for Nico Robin and mastina, they are claiming that Nico Robin and mastina's information is accurate. Given this, with the information unavailable to scum and the game being unable to have four scum in it, mastina and Nico Robin are conftown.

No matter what, we come out ahead.

If people actually fucking follow the plan.

There's zero downsides to this.
The town always comes out ahead here.

[NicoRobin]

The bigger question is why none of the mason claims scum read each other after both have doubled down.

Simple.

Because I am using the metric every fucking player should be using.

Play > Role.

And Roleclaim != Alignment.

With a side of the exception to the rule on role != alignment in that yes some roleclaims DO equal alignment and scum don't fucking counterclaim masons on D1.

beeboy's play is ridiculously, transparently town.
Lovebird's play is strongly town especially if Lovebird is an alt of the player I think they are an alt of. (If Lovebird were said player, Lovebird would be all-but-explicitly-conftown on play alone.)
Scum don't counterclaim masons on D1 especially knowing that we WILL be flipping masons and they WOULD get in trouble for it.
Scum also don't casually claim masons in the way beeboy did.
Scum also don't leave the breadcrumbs for being masons in the way beeboy and Lovebird did.

The reason I am not suspicious of beeboy or Lovebird in spite of their counterclaim is because it is transparently obvious they are town.
Are they masons? Fucked if I know. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But regardless. Masons, not masons. They are town either way.

And continuing to shadethrow the masons continues to be a scumclaim.

Because once more.

Scum cannot win this game if both sets of masons are treated as conftown.

So they fucking NEED to try and get people doubting one if not both of the masons.

This reasoning, right here, is why you should hammer. It did wonders for me when I caught scum once before, and it will do so now as well.

So quit being stubborn, folks.

[OnTheMark]

The bold of that is why 4 masons cannot exist.

Mastina can claim whatever she wants. If I ever die she is confirmed scum as I am her antithesis.

I have to go the rest of the day but mastina is scum

There is no way she believes 4 town masons exist and is selling that belief.

[beeboy]

I mean Mastina, the thing about Cheetory not answering questions publically or privately doesn't apply to scum.

[mastina]

There is no way she believes 4 town masons exist and is selling that belief.

You can keep restating the same thing over and over if you'd like but it won't change the fact that I've already addressed this in multiple ways multiple times from multiple angles.

[NicoRobin]

I mean Mastina, the thing about Cheetory not answering questions publically or privately doesn't apply to scum.

Hammer. >.>

[mastina]

I mean Mastina, the thing about Cheetory not answering questions publically or privately doesn't apply to scum.

Yes it does.
Scum don't magically have more access to information on how roles-not-their-own-or-in-their-fakeclaims work.

If they did, that's poor fucking modding.

You know why?

Because it is mod bias in favor of scum.

Mods are meant to be impartial.

Scum should not have access to information on roles other than their own/safeclaims unless town has access to that very same information.

So unless you wanna argue that the mod handed Nico and I a mason safeclaim.
Or that Cheet is a bad mod who biased the setup in favor of scum by allowing scum to basically have a free rolecop just by asking questions to him. (Because that's EXACTLY what giving answers to scum not available to town is.)

My point holds.

[NicoRobin]

The power of my third eye commands everyone to hammer.

I'll go there if I have to, so don't make me go there, which I will if there is no hammer in your next post.

[beeboy]

I don't know why any of this discussion should incentivise me to hammer OTM. I don't have a read on the slot and Lovebird has him as town?
I think I could read the slot pretty easily if I put in the effort but I am not really doing that atm because I am lazy.

[NicoRobin]

Why? Because I have, should I say, an ability that would give you that incentive if you truly townread me.

[mastina]

I mean Mastina, the thing about Cheetory not answering questions publically or privately doesn't apply to scum.

Yes it does.
Scum don't magically have more access to information on how roles-not-their-own-or-in-their-fakeclaims work.

If they did, that's poor fucking modding.

You know why?

Because it is mod bias in favor of scum.

Mods are meant to be impartial.

Scum should not have access to information on roles other than their own/safeclaims unless town has access to that very same information.

So unless you wanna argue that the mod handed Nico and I a mason safeclaim.
Or that Cheet is a bad mod who biased the setup in favor of scum by allowing scum to basically have a free rolecop just by asking questions to him. (Because that's EXACTLY what giving answers to scum not available to town is.)

My point holds.

Another way of saying it.

If the mod answers scum asking about information on their own role, that's fine; that is to be expected.
If the mod answers town asking about information on their own role, that's fine; that is to be expected.
If the mod answers scum asking about information on their mod-provided safeclaims, that's fine; that is to be expected.

If the mod refuses to answer town about information on a role which isn't their own on the merits that it isn't their role, then that is their preference as a moderator and a valid choice.

Okay, good so far, yes?
You agree?
You follow.

Alright.

So what's the logical extension of this?

If the mod refuses to answer scum about information on a role which isn't their own and isn't one of their safeclaims, then that is the extension of the town decision.

Consistent moderation, unbiased. Scum can't access something town cannot, unless the information is given in the scum's roles or the scum's fakeclaims. Fair, balanced, even, both sides denied the same thing and being given the same thing.

If Cheetory gave answers to scum about information on a role which was NEITHER their own NOR one of their safeclaims...
...While refusing to give answers to town about information on a role which isn't their own...

...Does that sound unbiased to you?

Fuck no, because it's not; it's biased in favor of scum.
Plain and simple.
There's no ambiguity here.

Just simple facts.

[NicoRobin]

I mean Mastina, the thing about Cheetory not answering questions publically or privately doesn't apply to scum.

Yes it does.
Scum don't magically have more access to information on how roles-not-their-own-or-in-their-fakeclaims work.

If they did, that's poor fucking modding.

You know why?

Because it is mod bias in favor of scum.

Mods are meant to be impartial.

Scum should not have access to information on roles other than their own/safeclaims unless town has access to that very same information.

So unless you wanna argue that the mod handed Nico and I a mason safeclaim.
Or that Cheet is a bad mod who biased the setup in favor of scum by allowing scum to basically have a free rolecop just by asking questions to him. (Because that's EXACTLY what giving answers to scum not available to town is.)

My point holds.

Another way of saying it.

If the mod answers scum asking about information on their own role, that's fine; that is to be expected.
If the mod answers town asking about information on their own role, that's fine; that is to be expected.
If the mod answers scum asking about information on their mod-provided safeclaims, that's fine; that is to be expected.

If the mod refuses to answer town about information on a role which isn't their own on the merits that it isn't their role, then that is their preference as a moderator and a valid choice.

Okay, good so far, yes?
You agree?
You follow.

Alright.

So what's the logical extension of this?

If the mod refuses to answer scum about information on a role which isn't their own and isn't one of their safeclaims, then that is the extension of the town decision.

Consistent moderation, unbiased. Scum can't access something town cannot, unless the information is given in the scum's roles or the scum's fakeclaims. Fair, balanced, even, both sides denied the same thing and being given the same thing.

If Cheetory gave answers to scum about information on a role which was NEITHER their own NOR one of their safeclaims...
...While refusing to give answers to town about information on a role which isn't their own...

...Does that sound unbiased to you?

Fuck no, because it's not; it's biased in favor of scum.
Plain and simple.
There's no ambiguity here.

Just simple facts.

Look at PT

[mastina]

Look at PT

I did and with respect and great love, that was a terrible idea.

<3

[beeboy]

Why? Because I have, should I say, an ability that would give you that incentive if you truly townread me.

I don't think you have role based info to believe OTM is scum.

[NicoRobin]

Why? Because I have, should I say, an ability that would give you that incentive if you truly townread me.

I don't think you have role based info to believe OTM is scum.

I never said that.

[NicoRobin]

Now hammer or I will make you hammer.

Don't mess with me, yo.

[beeboy]

If I had to guess myself I'd say the slot was town.
I just don't like pulling triggers like that without really putting the thought into the read or having some kind of tell to back it up.

[NicoRobin]

If I had to guess myself I'd say the slot was town.
I just don't like pulling triggers like that without really putting the thought into the read or having some kind of tell to back it up.

You tonread me, so just damn trust me, okay?

[OnTheMark]

I am l-1 well I am out all day.

I still reiterate I can make momragel ‘s checks not messed with.

I still maintain that I am the counter to Mastina spreading ninja to buddies.

Just remember if I am hammered there is a lying pair or scum masons.

I gotta go. See you this weekend if I am not hammered.