Mafiascum.net

And if Andres is scum which looks pretty reasonable then only one other scum.

In post 2971, DkKoba wrote:whats ur poe again? -koba

Kill all hydras.

Aldus, NPOM, you, Andres.

I made my point why I am not seeing Ico as scum, so it literally leaves you four.

Then last scum is in DKK/Aldus/Icon/ from least likely to most likely.

Your reasoning makes no sense.

In post 2978, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Your reasoning makes no sense.

Gotta love the nerve.

In post 2979, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 2978, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Your reasoning makes no sense.

Gotta love the nerve.

I lol'd

LMFSOOOOOOOO

Ok, I did some rereading and some VC analysis.

Here are my takeaways on my pool of people:

- I think he and I are in the same boat in terms of bad reads this game. I could see this coming from town or scum, but I'm not going to penalize him too harshly for that. Honestly, before the bob flip, I would have had him as one of my stronger town reads and I'm not going to discount that entirely. I have felt like he's trying to solve the game. I've found his play under pressure less than stellar, fringing on intentional misrep. I don't really know andres meta (or most anyone in this game for that matter), so maybe he is the type of player who over tunnels and looks for any example he can grab without considering context....IDK. I do know him trying to shade me is notable. In some ways, I can understand given I was tracked to a body N1. That being said, I think it is fairly clear from the many discussions around the circumstances since that I'd have to be a wizard to be faking my claim...and I assure I am not. I also find his obvtown!Tess read completely bonkers.

-- I am significantly more skeptical of this slot of after reread and looking at the vote counts. Tess literally didn't vote anyone D2? That's huge freaking alarm bells for me. Plus on reread, my eyes are glazing over hard reading this. I think I was a bit of a victim to the more words = town fallacy. I just haven't found much of what Tess has said very persuasive, despite the voluminous word count. And then I realize why: There is a lot of shading people without actually committing to votes or cases. There's also a lot of bad wagon analysis coming from Tess. She actively pushed against both Datisi and Billy, but again didn't put strong pressure. Her current NPOM vote feels a bit like a "fuck it, this is the path of least resistance", more than "I am genuinely committed to yeeting this person."

- My suspicion of Aldus mostly comes from knowing he is a good player, and his lack of being too forward in this game. He's felt a bit background from the start, but has felt more involved as the game has gone on. If I was looking for a stealthy scum in this PoE group, it'd be him. As I said before, I found his hammer D1 to actually be pretty pro-town. The day was bloated and needed a flip, and the janko case wasn't the worst in the world (though a bob flip then might have been a better choice in hindsight). Since then, Aldus has been pressuring NPOM most consistently -- and while I understand that, I think we all have the same sort of ambivalence toward NPOM. It wouldn't be my first focus as town. Aldus is a little wallpapery overall, but I felt like I saw some pretty strong town glimpses when he engaged with andres. He definitely came out the stronger looking of the two in that exchange.

VOTE: tesstarossa

VOTE: testa

lets go

Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

Andresvmb

(2): Alduskkel, NoPowerOverMe

NoPowerOverMe

(2): Andresvmb, Testarossa

Testarossa

(2): VP Baltar, DkKoba

Not Voting

(3): hellbooks, Datisi, Iconeum

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-08-24 22:40:00).

[/area]

Alright Masonry + Ico, you get to decide the fate of one of Me, Testarossa, and NPOM.

Take your time.

Anders, how do you feel about Tess not voting at all D2?

That's assuming there's not a consolidation.

Well I don’t mind this all that much to be honest. However, Datisi has expressed a lot of interest in getting Alduskkel. I will move there if Datisi rejects the existing choices and votes there.

@VPB I didn’t actually catch that. I’ve seen both Town and Scum miss votes at crucial junctures, so it’s difficult for me to assess. Testarossa had expressed a lot of skepticism towards the Bob wagon because it had formed on her as well. So I don’t know that it’s a red flag not to have voted D2 in the same way that say if I had been advocating for Bob but never actually voted there.

What would have helped a lot was for Testarossa to have expressed some interest in an alternative wagon D2, and voted there - that would more clearly signal what her preferences are. However, she’s voting for NPOM now, who if I’m not wrong was the other choice D2. So it’s not like we’re getting materially different information if that makes sense.

But your point though is valid, because if for some reason say Testarossa and NPOM are aligned as Scum, the fact that she didn’t vote for NPOM D2 and give that wagon more momentum would be made starkly obvious with an NPOM flip. But from the looks of it, I would gamble that’s not what we’re going to see.

Well, my concern with Tess not voting D2 is she knew what the flip would be. I would expect town to push an alternative if they thought it was a bad wagon. Instead, it was a convenient wagon to just not be on and have no associatives D2, yes?

I do think that the accusation that I tunnel or not consider things within context is harsh. This game has a tremendous volume of posts, and it’s hard to remember all of the details. I have tried to read through the game and make some quick assessments while staying on top of what’s been said. I could also make the same point about you VPB, in that you must see that some paranoia is warranted when we’ve failed so miserably this game, but have made several attempts at either minimizing my comments or make them look absurd in ways that weren’t totally fair. And yeah, I take stabs at people sometimes - it’s the game. We’re not all Town.

In any case, I don’t take things personally either, so there aren’t any hard feelings.

In post 2991, VP Baltar wrote:Well, my concern with Tess not voting D2 is she knew what the flip would be. I would expect town to push an alternative if they thought it was a bad wagon. Instead, it was a convenient wagon to just not be on and have no associatives D2, yes?

Yeah that I agree with. That’s why people SR (and rightly so) shade without votes. Because it let’s others stay safely in the background and not get any blood on their hands.

Purely in terms of votes, and outside of NPOM, Tess has voted for Town (and me). But if she’s correct about NPOM, then she’s probably cleared yeah? I think I’m having a hard time seeing Tess as Scum because both Bob and Billy thought Tess was Town, my initial gut reaction was that she was Town, and we have similar views of the game.

My initial gut reaction about DkKoba though was that they were Town too. So I do think it’s a split between those two. You know what it is? I actually think DkKoba has a lot of natural skill for the game. And I can’t help but feel that the fact that they’ve been on so many Town wagons that I shouldn’t totally trust that initial gut reaction. At the same time, I’m trying to avoid having to make this decision, and vote between NPOM (who called me desperate, and has been SR by our fellow dead Townies), and Alduskkel (who said I was arguing against him in bad faith).

There’s one last consideration I should be transparent about. I would be upset losing to NPOM as Scum. And that is absolutely a factor.

In post 2967, NoPowerOverMe wrote:The way I see it Andres and Test have about two of the least amount of Towncred in the game and they are trying to push for me elim so what does that tell you?

I mean... yeah, my Town Cred isn’t through the roof. But has Town Cred for anything outside of mechanics, since we have been executing only Town.

And you really should go back and look at your reads list D2. You had Nulls for two Confirmed Town {Billy, Hellbooks}, and you had both Datisi, who is Confirmed Town, and VPB, who you are practically aligned with right now, as Scum.

So this is so incredibly rich.

That’s from memory, I didn’t go back and check.

This is blatant ate.

You’re already voting me and think I’m Scum so I don’t care.