Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:51 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

Percy wrote:
KaleiÐoscøpe wrote:Thanks for proving my point.
And what would that be, exactly? That whoever speaks second is wrong and probably scum? :roll:

Oh and I don't know if I mentioned this, but:
1. What did you like about the RC wagon?
2. Why is Dry-fit the superior choice for today?
Your predictable way of posting. The way you post with emotion. You feel somehow attacked by my statement (which in fact didn't even specifically mean you, since Furcalow did exactly the same), and then you go out of your way to find dirt about me in any sort of way. This is very bad town play, because scum can totally predict your behavior in these situations, and simply can choose not to attack you because they know you'll get all aggressive about it. They can simply lay low while you self destruct on any player who remotely mentions you as a suspect. If the sort of players like you and Fur were a king in a kingmaker setup, I'm quite sure a townie will get axed by emotion.

Let me answer your questions:
- My first RC vote was indeed random, but his way of posting never even convinced me to remove my vote from him. Post #55 of him is a simple post of making someone suspicious with hardly anything to go on, and in #60 he again joins a vote of someone else, potentially hoping for a bandwagon vote. (First Sotty, then Nikanor, all with very weak evidence for doing so). That was reason enough to keep my vote on RC for a while. Then in post #169, he even throws a half ass defense for dry-fit for no reason whatsoever. While in my eyes, dry-fits action is hell of a lot more scummy, RC reaction towards it is even weirder considering he wasn't even related to the action, yet defends the one player scummier then him.
- My vote is far from opportunistic bandwagoning. It is my first vote switch this game, which is hardly opportunistic bandwagoning considering 90% of this game switched their votes more often. Yes, it is a vote to get a lynch, but frankly, what else are we doing here today? In the end, we need to lynch to win, and frankly, I rather see two lynches then one or none. Why? Because scum controls the nights, and we as town should control the days. The more we lynch, the more we control the game. What is happening now is that everyone is jumping all over the place, which is perfect for scum because they can better control the lynch situation that way.
I've stated that I think Dry-Fit is scummy. I switch my vote towards him because it could result in a lynch of a player who I consider scummy. That isn't bandwagoning. Bandwagoners jump on when they never even stated they suspect the certain person, but just jump on because other players 'convinced' them to do so.
- I like the RC wagon because I suspect RC to be scum. Any player sharing that idea is all welcome to join into my vote. And again, 3 votes is hardly a wagon.
- Dry-Fit isn't a superior vote in any way. I suspect both, and if I can make it happen, I'd want them to be both lynched today. But if you actually took notice of my posts, this question was stupid since I already answered it.

As for RC:
- You should really try to call me KScope, because I doubt many people know who you mean if use my other name :mrgreen:
- I'm not expecting a defense from you in any way, because well... you would probably only tell me what you think I want to hear, and I would probably not buy it at all because I'm too stubborn anyway. It would be a waste of time. I'm simply keeping my eye on you and so far, you haven't really acted in a way I expected a townie in this game would be. If you want to read my reasons for suspecting you, just read above.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:28 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

KaleiÐoscøpe wrote:-My vote is far from opportunistic bandwagoning. It is my first vote switch this game, which is hardly opportunistic bandwagoning considering 90% of this game switched their votes more often. Yes, it is a vote to get a lynch, but frankly, what else are we doing here today? In the end, we need to lynch to win, and frankly, I rather see two lynches then one or none. Why? Because scum controls the nights, and we as town should control the days. The more we lynch, the more we control the game. What is happening now is that everyone is jumping all over the place, which is perfect for scum because they can better control the lynch situation that way.
Though I 100% agree that we need two lynches today and also agree that we need to get a move on, I disagree that we should all just pile on one wagon and be done with it already.

Chances of only having 1 wagon and that wagon being town: 81%

Chances of 4 wagons and at least one of them being scum: 61%

So having more wagons probably means we have a scum on the hook, which means this early in the game, that lines are probably being drawn. I already said I and not voting RC or Dryfit, but would vote Furcalow or Jason.

Then you got Ben who as RC pointed out, is trying to cut off the Furc wagon before it gets started.

And then there is you, who with the addition of this 4th wagon, pushes another lynch to L-4 and seems very urgent on getting this done.

KD, is it safe to say you are not in favor of a Furc or Jason lynch? If so, could you please explain why you have town reads on these two?
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:37 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

I don't do town reads. Townie points are blurred. I only read in scumtells, which makes people more likely to be scum. Furc has made some, but personally, they feel more like emotional responses. Jason didn't get on my scumdar as of yet
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:38 am

Post by Sotty7 »

IAI:
What is so troublesome about my Jason defense?
Benmage Post 298 wrote:OMGUS by Percy looks all too appropriate, wouldn't you say.
Not really. Your case was awful, it pushed you up my list by leaps and bounds.
RedCoyote Post 299 wrote:...but he said he didn't understand the wagon on me. Explain, please.
Okay, all but one thing. To be explicit I agree with:

-His Nikanor vote
-His evaluation of IAI
-His statement that Jason's slip was blown up
-Jason looking lost
-His top three suspects (Dry-Fit, Nikanor and Benmage)

And on that note,

Unvote, vote: Dry-Fit


Red's last post is more the Red I remember so I am willing to look another way for now. Dry fit's back door wagon vote on Jason is still grating on me. I also don't like his refusal to explain more indepth why he didn't like Jason's reaction.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:13 am

Post by Oso »

RedCoyote wrote:..
Oso 229 wrote:I'd bet money right now that if Zach opened the mafia quick-topic for pre-Day 1 discussion, the fact that this is a vanilla game came up. In my mind there is a decent chance none of the jason/IKD/Furcolow trio is scum.
That's a pretty good point. I hadn't considered this. Still, it's a pretty big assumption to write three people off for. You'd also be writing off mongoose for this, right Oso? He admitted to the same thing.
..
You are right, Mongoose did as well. I missed that (Found it in Post 77 though). I'd have to answer yes but it would be an additional reason to put Mongoose into my "don't want to lynch" pile. Not going to go into a great amount of detail but I don't get a scum vibe off his posts. His unsureness in some of his post strikes me as genuine rather than being constructed to look that way. The last sentence this post gives an excellent example of why I don't mind having him around for the moment.

But you have a point I do agree with in saying that making an assumption that clears 3 players is a leap and would be wrong if I set it in concrete. But it's good enough to take them out of consideration for the Phase 1 (and probably even the Day 1) lynch pool for me.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:46 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

Sotty7 wrote:
IAI:
What is so troublesome about my Jason defense?
I wonder if (one might even say doubt, that) scum Sotty would defend scum Jason this way this early on. Even with the number of mislynches that would make you cry if you were scum, you would have to know to cut bait this early on a scum partner who this much a liability...

So if that is the case, and Jason is scum, that would mean you were townie.

But then Townie Sotty would be honest on her evaluation of Jason's play, that this is typical of his townie behavior.

Let's just say that all this WIFOM has made me think twice about Jason = scum, so I am seeing where this fourth wagon takes us since I already hated the first two wagons...
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:35 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

Vote Count #11 of D1 P1


Dry-fit - 6 (Oso, Locke Lamora, Benmage, Furcolow, KaleiÐoscøpe, Sotty7)
Jasont1981 - 3 (Nikanor, RedCoyote, Dry-fit)
Furcolow - 3 (Mongoose, JasonT1981, I Am Innocent)
Redcoyote - 2 (Mina, Elmo)
Benmage - 2 (Imkingdavid, Percy)

Not Voting: ()

If I made any mistakes, please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for (Both phases of) Day 1 is Thursday November 12 at 12pm CST

With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:20 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

Kscope 300 wrote:Then in post #169, he even throws a half ass defense for dry-fit for no reason whatsoever.
I have no idea what you're talking about here. No, I may not have been as verbal about Dry-fit (mostly because I've been working my ass off to both sell this jason lynch and defend myself in the process), but in no way can you stretch that post to his defense. I've not been particularly satisfied with Dry-fit, and I won't cry if he gets lynched either. Then again, I can think of at least 7 people who I'd be happy to have strung up. That's just how I roll.
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I know... it makes me nostalgic though. <3
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:38 pm

Post by mongoose »

I am going to have to request a replacement.
I barely have any access to a computer with my charger gone and midterms coming up next week. After that i wont have any comp access for a whole week due to being out of town. I doubt the game will finish by then. sorry everyone
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:23 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

Looked back at RC, and I still don't really see it. He missed one of IAI's posts and admitted as much; I've certainly done the same as town and I don't think it's as much of a scumtell as some are indicating.

On the Jason topic: can anyone tell me why Jason would have known Nikanor was lying as town, but he wouldn't have done as scum? Surely he has the same knowledge of the set-up from either perspective, so it's not relevant to his alignment. I have seen scum-Jason flail and get things wrong in the past (see The Wire Mafia, when he bungled a fakeclaim by combining two of the scum fakeclaims into one and thus making the flavour wholly unbelievable) but I'm not sure why he would have been any less likely to react like this as town. Furthermore, once he realised Nik was lying, why does it make him more likely scum that he continued to push on Nik rather than laugh it off? He has no reason to be paranoid and threatened at that stage, so surely the easy way out for scum would have been to do exactly that. I guess I can see where people are coming from with the paranoia thing, but I personally think Jason would have put a little bit more effort into thinking about the 'investigation' as scum (like, you know, looking at the setup or at least taking the time to realise that his scum team is actually all goons and a daycop would be a bit overpowered for town) than just saying 'NO YOU'RE SCUM NIK!'
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:17 am

Post by imkingdavid »

Sorry to do this now, but I am also going to have to request replacement.


My schedule is very variable and I have lots of work that is starting to pile up and I just have no time for this game. I know I've replaced out of so many games recently, so I don't plan on joining another one until I definitely have time to play it through to completion. Once again sorry, and have fun everyone!
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:21 am

Post by Benmage »

Requesting Day Extension
....Two replacements...that pretty important in a game of only 16.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:35 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Benmage wrote:
Requesting Day Extension
....Two replacements...that pretty important in a game of only 16.
I have contacted the players on the replacement list. Best case, both get back to me quickly with interest to the game... not so best case scenario things take a little bit longer. I'll decide on this depending on how long it takes.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:17 pm

Post by Mina »

Unfortunately, I'm
L/A this week
. Since I haven't given this game enough attention, though, I'll try to get in a more substantial post on Furcolow/Dry-Fit/Imkingdavid later tonight.
Locke Lamora wrote:Looked back at RC, and I still don't really see it. He missed one of IAI's posts and admitted as much; I've certainly done the same as town and I don't think it's as much of a scumtell as some are indicating.
That's not even remotely the case on him. I think Oso was the only person who voted for him solely for missing that post. For me, at least, what I found more suspicious about the incident is that he immediately tried to turn it around on Nikanor. (He's since stated that his vote was for other reasons and his comment was flippant, although his explanation rings a bit false to me.)

But I'll be entirely honest. Many of my problems with Red Coyote are pure gut. Take that for what it's worth, because I find my gut-based scumreads are a bit...um, hit-or-miss. But other people have corroborated me on this, and I'm more cavalier than I'd normally be with voting for bad vibes when most of the other players in this game look town and we're allowed lots of mislynches. I also agree that his most recent posts have improved somewhat, so I may reconsider my vote when I'm caught up.

(On a fluffier note, since some people are arguing over whether the set-up favours scum...I just did the math, and town is allowed six mislynches. So as long as 7/13 townies manage to look more townish than the three scum, we win. :D)
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:19 pm

Post by Mina »

EBWOP: Just to clarify: "He's since stated that his vote ON NIKANOR was for other reasons."
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:38 pm

Post by Dry-fit »

Sotty7 wrote:You realize that this still doesn't answer the question right?

Why isn't it an intuitive thought process?
Well, I'm not sure it's possible to show why something isn't intuitive...

I apologize guys. I've had an unfortunate situation of having 4 exams on four consecutive school days. My last is tomorrow, so I should be able to be more active.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:07 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

Baby Spice replaces for Mongoose. Thanks Baby Spice!
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:46 pm

Post by Baby Spice »

NP Zachrulez.

Unvote


Will now go away and read.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:45 pm

Post by Oso »

Welcome Baby Spice. Thanks for joining.
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:09 pm

Post by Percy »

To add to the woes of zach,
I'm LA this week
. I only have very poor phone internet, as I'm in rural Australia and they only just got color television here. Not really, but close.

Thanks for the lecture on how to play, kaleidoscope. I disagree with you on almost every point on how my play is bad, and the proof is in the pudding - because of my prompting, you posted more than you have this entire game, and explained your votes. You read town to me still.

I haven't had a chance to read the RC or Dry-fit wagons close enough to commit. Still liking my Bemmmage vote, and if anyone is guilty of OMGUS, it's him. Sure I voted second, but his vote was a confused explosion of scummy goodness in response to my calling out his lie.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:11 pm

Post by Percy »

Oh, and I'll be reading and possibly revoting for a lynching wagon either tomorrow or Thursday.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:41 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

Unvote
;
vote: Furcolow


The jason wagon has become too controversial to continue. If you aren't convinced by now, you probably won't be. This doesn't change the fact that an alternative to the Dry-fit wagon, regardless how you feel about Dry-fit, is beneficial to the long-term game. Furcolow is a great alternative. He's arguably the most opportunistic player here (arguably because he's competing with Benmage for the title), is throwing up senseless, unexplained scum lists and positions that contradict one another, and is, in general, manufacturing activity to look as though he's paying closer attention than he actually is (by this I mean he's missing obvious things and shrugging them off, pretending like it's no big deal).

All this said, I'm fairly content with the voting activity we have from everyone today.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:46 pm

Post by Furcolow »

i'm at a friends. i just wanted to check in. i saw we have two replacements... hi baby spice.
glad you unvoted me. i had a feeling mongoose was town, just a moron. not that that isn't a bit of the pot calling the kettle black from me.

in your reading, who would you label your top 3 suspects ?
perhaps i should go back and read this myself, to get a new look on it

wow, great timing
another senseless vote on me
the reasons for this one being "opportunistic"
"manufacturing activity"

when i'm on multiple peoples town lists for my misinterpreting the rules....... yeah... good one.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:47 pm

Post by Furcolow »

unvote;
vote: red coyote


dry-fit gave a reason why i should unvote. he claimed he will be more active.
I wasnt sure why people would say RC was scum, but I dislike his vote on me and can see why he would as scum.
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:06 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

Fur 323 wrote:I wasnt sure why people would say RC was scum, but I dislike his vote on me and can see why he would as scum.
"I don't know why people say RC is scum, but he's voting me so I can see it now."

:roll:
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