Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[LimMePls]

You have an awful amount of posting in other games to be "disinterested in mafia lately". This comment is suspicious.

Ludicrously untrue. I've been sick and not posting very much in all of my games. I even just got quick lynched in a mini on D1 over it. Everyone feel free to verify this yourself. Why are you lying Scott?

[Scott Brosius]

You have an awful amount of posting in other games to be "disinterested in mafia lately". This comment is suspicious.

Ludicrously untrue. I've been sick and not posting very much in all of my games. I even just got quick lynched in a mini on D1 over it. Everyone feel free to verify this yourself. Why are you lying Scott?

I'm not lying. I realize you haven't posted anywhere since that comment. But you have quite a bit of volume around the time of that comment elsewhere, but not in this game. I also find it pretty interesting how quickly you responded to this. Monitoring the thread much?

Unvote
Vote: LynchMePls

[LimMePls]

Monitoring the thread? I just checked all my games before bed!

And this is now the dumbest conversation I've ever been involved in during a mafia game.

[jmj3000]

Ok, drama with the city and everything is done. Now, I am about to do an in-depth reread of the thread. Off we go.

[ThAdmiral]

How about no, Scott?

[pappums rat]

i can vouch for what lmp is saying, he has said basically the same thing in another game. that has to be one of the weakest reasons for voting someone evar.

[Scott Brosius]

The vote is for obvious lurking of the thread and popping in immediately when mentioned. That is scummy and way too convenient.

[Furcolow]

what just happened between furc and ThAd?

I hammered him in Troll mafia, and I'm fairly certain I can read his meta. He was scum there, and I'm reading his play here... leaning town because of his reply to my pressure. Not sold 100% or anything, but I would see scum in gonnano/bvoigt/ghostwriter before I would in TheAd in terms of meta on "how scum act". TheAd just posts a little differently as scum. I'm guessing this is his town play, because it feels different to me.

Is anyone open to a nameclaim? Do you feel scum have fake nameclaims?

[Furcolow]

vote: jmj3000

for promising but not delivering.

[jmj3000]

.... really furc? 2 hours, and i am "promising, but not delivering"? I'm taking notes and everything, give me a little while. It might take me a while, but I will deliver.

[Furcolow]

unvote

ok, but it appears you were actively lurking, now.

[RedCoyote]

Okay, everyone. I'm going back to page 7, so this may wind up to be somewhat of a wall.

Spoiler: You've got to click it, so just do it and get it over with. :right:

Reading him in iso, I find it pretty likely that he is scum. I don't like all the little suggestions that he is town.

Little suggestions by whom? bvoigt or others?

---

By claiming i "want" to be investigated. When what i said was that i had no qualms about being investigated if someone with the ability felt uneasy about my presence. It is not a INVESTIGATAE ME NOW. But the individuals choice.

I didn't like it when you first said it, and I don't like your clarification either. This looks like backtracking to me. I just do not understand the mentality behind "Investigate me, then you'll see I'm innocent!" It almost screams Godfather to me.

---

I don't particularly object to a ThAdmiral wagon right now, but I'd like to see what exactly people are finding so scummy about him before I buy in. What vague posts or hints at inside information has he made?

He calls David "marked as town" without having mentioned him at any time prior in response to someone suggesting otherwise. When I asked him about it, he said it was because of his "goodposting" without any references as to why, what, or how. At a couple of points he implies that he's feeling strongly about Fur as town-aligned, but later drops that in favor of Fur slipping on daytalk for the scum. He just makes these very short little blurbs about whatever is going through his mind, but it's really rubbing me the wrong way. It's like he's trying to give out as little as possible so he can back away from any position at anytime. His position on Fur 7 pages into the game went from town, to scum, back to town. This isn't necessarily scummy, but it might be when you're just tacking onto others.

---

I would just like to point out Furcolow is abstaining from my wagon.
Ive seen him play as town and he is one who bounds ahead regardless of anyones welfare but his own. Ive not seen this side to him and we have only played together as towns.

Point well taken.

---

Yay, more softclaiming! Because that's what we asked for! And ATE to top it off like a cherry on a sundae!

I actually agree with this, Ghost. I wouldn't put it by Fur to think that this is acceptable, though, so I have a hard time punishing him for it.

---

I like BotS' post 193. So far so good with him.

---

Not liking him defending Rat (very heavily, too). And I also don't like that we're almost 10 pages in and he doesn't even have a vote down. Aside from defending Rat, his ISO consists of IoA and questions that go nowhere. Do not like.

Thanks for replacing in, Pie. I like this opening post. This is a wagon you can really sink your teeth into. I didn't realize that Ghost hadn't voted yet.

---

The vast majority of those people, town or scum, are using the same reasons to be on it. Since both are VI's, there are numerous ways to get onto the wagons without looking scummy. I've been spending the majority of this game trying to find who the scum are on both wagons. No doubt, most of, if not all, of the scum are on one wagon or the other by now.

I don't like this post. I don't like the concept of trying to figure out who scum are without using your vote. That's the number one tool at our disposal right now. I mean, why not vote? No one is asking you to throw it around willy nilly, just use it effectively.

---

ThAdmiral's post 209 is okay. I'm feeling a little better about him in general.

This game is really flowing well and I'm glad I'm in it. I really like a lot of the posts people are making.

---

David's post 234 is essentially how I feel about Llama's plea. I get where he's coming from on jmj, it's just a shame that jmj has kind of lurked his way out of suspicion. I'm not prepared to vote rat on just that quote though. It may be a part of something bigger, but I'll hold off on that for now. The only thing that really strikes me as odd is that this causes David to vote rat. It seems a little weak for just this one sentence to really trigger his vote, and I'd like him to elaborate more on this.

---

I'm sorry guys, I'm going to have to replace out. Bed rest until some indefinite point in February (argh!). I wouldn't have signed up if I'd known. I'll look forward to calling you all liars, cheats and backstabbers at some other point in the future.

Sorry to see you go, jvw. I was looking forward to playing with you.

---

Scott's post 243 is a good addition to what Llama has begun to scratch at. I see some really valid points here.

---

There are a) too many people slipping off the radar and b) there were far too many people on my wagon for them all to be innocent. It gained rapid velocity because of my own speculation on the set up.

You can't do wagon analysis on a player that hasn't flipped yet, Ivy. I mean, I'm open to any argument involving lame sheeping onto your wagon, but I'm not going to sit here and say that it's a scum-driven wagon with any certainty.

---

It gained rapid velocity because in all honesty you are probably still scum PI.

Then why are you voting rat? I don't like this comment at all.

---

GW in iso:

0- pre-game questions
1- meta discussion of setup
2- re: pre-game questions
3- re: pre-game questions
4- meta discussion of setup
5- meta discussion of setup
6- asks why he is being voted
7- re: pre-game questions
8- re: pre-game questions
9- commenting on a wagon
10- commenting on a wagon
11- commenting on a wagon
12- explains why he isnt' voting
13- commenting on a wagon
14- commenting on a wagon/self-defense
15- asks why he is being voted

This about settles it. There are plenty of good votes today, I think, but Ghost may be the flip I most want to see.

---

HELLO TOWN RC!

Hello, Nacho! I like your post, even though I don't agree with all of it. What makes you think margaret is scum? ThAdmiral mentioned this as well. I just do not see it. She's one of my top town picks at the moment. Then again, I've had a surprising amount of praise for everyone this game. A lot of cases are making sense to me right now and a lot of good points.

---

I looked up a little bit extra before getting distracted (Wikipedia; start in one place, end up in anime no matter what), so I've got some ideas of what to expect. Granted, you said it was fine, I was responding more to those who had a problem with what I said.

That's all well and good, but why are you still not voting after all this? Are you just being stubborn about it? I can't imagine a pro-town reason behind this position you've clearly taken against using your vote as a scumhunting tool.

---

Something about this seems a little off to me. Does Llama know something about the setup that I don't? Is he defending GW indirectly?

No, I think he's being pretty direct about it. I suppose he just puts more stock in setup speculation than those voting Ghost do.

Or, you know, he's scum, but I'm not feeling that at the moment.

---

I'm not lying. I realize you haven't posted anywhere since that comment. But you have quite a bit of volume around the time of that comment elsewhere, but not in this game. I also find it pretty interesting how quickly you responded to this. Monitoring the thread much?

Unvote
Vote: LynchMePls

Are you prepared to go all-in and say that LynchMePls is lying about his inactivity for reasons of illness/disinterest? This seems like very poor rationale to vote on without really opening both barrels on LynchMePls. There's no way you'd be able to convince me he is active lurking in any sinster way when his vote is already firmly planted on the highest wagon. I mean, using active lurking on the first day of a 24-person game? Really? I just can't stress enough how lame the vote comes across as.

---

vote: jmj3000

for promising but not delivering.

Quit throwing your vote around over stupid things. You've got this once-in-a-lifetime position of being seen by me as probably town, don't screw it up.

There are far too many players for a Scumscale, but the best wagons at the moment are now Ghost, rat, and Ivy. The acceptable runners-up are David and jmj. You can make points about others, but I see the most promise in lynching one of these folks at the moment. A notable missing person from this group is ThAdmiral, who I now think I was a bit quick to judge. I'm not completely sold on him, but I've liked some of his more recent posts better than I liked his earlier stuff.

Ghost absolutely has to be feigning ignorance as to why he's being suspected. There's just no way someone can be both that in tune to the votes he's getting while refusing to take any real action in opining on the guilt/innocence of others. What strikes me as particularly odd is how he's actually raised a decent point about Fur earlier, but he completely failed to follow up on it. There's no content where there should be content. His setup speculation is just that. Speculation. Bordering on pointless. We all know there is no urgency to stop others from misreading the game in someway. Maybe there was for a brief moment during the first few pages, but that has long sense passed. If the Ivy wagon is so bad, then you pressure it, you don't just occasionally whine about it and hope it goes away. That's what scum would do, I suspect. There is just no reason for Ghost to be as mum as he's currently being.

rat has been largely tripping over his own tail, as it were. He's making a lot of peculiar comments about his past experience and seems completely fixated on the Fur/Ivy situation. Granted, this has been an important piece of the game, but there are many other branches that have sprung both directly from this and on their own. To top it off, he complains that no one is paying attention to the other people in this game. Yeah, and it starts with the man in the mirror, rat. Why don't you practice what you preach? The one thing I'll give rat, though, is how he has the real ability to climb out of this little hole he's kind of gotten himself into. He hasn't made a lot of posts, and he should try to rectify this as best he can.

Rounding out the list is everyone's favorite... Ivy. She's said so many questionable things about investigations, her role PM, her positions on other players... It's hard to tell how genuine any of this is. Just like stereotypes don't become stereotypes unless there is some truth to them, Ivy doesn't become the highest vote getter by chance. There are probably scum on her wagon, sure, but that doesn't mean that a solid majority of town-aligned players looked over the game so far and decided that Ivy would probably be the best place for their vote. That still means something, right or wrong. I don't think the arguments for Ivy as town outweigh the slip-ups she's made in this game thus far. By contrast, a player like Fur, I think, is more likely to be town here.

Ghost is easily my favorite of the three suspects though.

Unvote

;

vote: GhostWriter

[ThAdmiral]

what just happened between furc and ThAd?

I hammered him in Troll mafia, and I'm fairly certain I can read his meta. He was scum there, and I'm reading his play here... leaning town because of his reply to my pressure. Not sold 100% or anything, but I would see scum in gonnano/bvoigt/ghostwriter before I would in TheAd in terms of meta on "how scum act". TheAd just posts a little differently as scum. I'm guessing this is his town play, because it feels different to me.

Is anyone open to a nameclaim? Do you feel scum have fake nameclaims?

Um I was town in Troll mafia. Do you mean rivertown?

Also no to name claims for now. I am against unnecessary claiming as a general rule.

[InflatablePie]

I'm liking RedCoyote. On that note, because it has more support now: UNVOTE: smargaret VOTE: GhostWriter

Also, scum most likely have fake nameclaims and/or not all of the names that they were given are scummy. Nameclaiming would be pointless.

[LimMePls]

Is anyone open to a nameclaim? Do you feel scum have fake nameclaims?

Since both Americans and Russians are good/bad, why would scum need fake claims? How in ANY way could a name claim help town?

[Furcolow]

Why would it be pointless? I disagree.

I'm liking RedCoyote. On that note, because it has more support now: UNVOTE: smargaret VOTE: GhostWriter

Also, scum most likely have fake nameclaims and/or not all of the names that they were given are scummy. Nameclaiming would be pointless.

[LimMePls]

I don't think it'd be pointless, I think it'd be blatantly pro-scum. All it would do is help the scum narrow down who they think the PRs are. Again, the question is, what possible good would it do the town?

[pappums rat]

red coyote wrote:

To top it off, he (pappums rat) complains that no one is paying attention to the other people in this game.

that was in response to scott who had complained about no one paying attention to me in this game.

i'll have more to say later btw, ive just kind of overburdened myself with 4 games at once and a full time job + a full course load at college. i should have something up later today (hopefully).

[gonnano]

I like red coyote's post -- It's made me look twice at GW, who I didn't originally think of as scummy. Good approach to analysis throughout the post, as well.

After seeing the reasons that he gives for the Thad wagon I'm not sure that it was ever really a good place to put a vote.
Also, I'm not sold on the suspicion of David or jmj. David's made some genuine contribution to the discussion IMO, and jmj really hasn't done anything that scummy.

That's about it for now... I still like my Lowell vote, considering he hasn't really done anything since I voted him. I feel like a Lowell flip will give us a little insight about GW, plus I think Lowell is more likely overall to be scum.

[gonnano]

I forgot something.

I don't think it'd be pointless, I think it'd be blatantly pro-scum.

QFT

[LlamaFluff]

While there isnt that much scumhunting from GW, just about all of his points are deadon for what town should be thinking flavor and playwise this game.

Something about this seems a little off to me. Does Llama know something about the setup that I don't? Is he defending GW indirectly? Nothing majorly scummy, but I thought I'd point this out all the same.

GW is talking about not locking in anything as scum or town names, and that there are very easily things that simply transcend american and soviet. If you take that into effect, and how you can look at the cold war for some many standpoints, what he is preaching makes perfect sense.

Also im not indrectly defending GW, I am directly defending him. I think he is probably town.

This game can use a rat death, jmj death, gonnano death... maybe a few others. Not liking the road we are headed down.

[Artem]

Artem, I am not playing behind my "supposed scum meta" whatsoever.
If you see me as unhelpful and scummy here, you should see me as scum.

I skimmed some of your scum meta and it's actually the other way around. You post just as many walls of text when you're scum.

Unvote

, since you pretty much still read town.

Vote: InflatablePie

because he vote-hops like crazy.

-Joins the game, skims a few pages and votes GW. (First vote on the wagon, though.)
-Rat wagon picks up speed, IP jumps on it.
-I mention the speed, IP jumps off it. Jumps on smargaret over something that was actually legit (rat excusing his anti-town behaviour by claiming lack of scumhunting skill and smargaret pointing it out.)
-RedCoyote posts his suspicion of GW and IP is back on the GW wagon.

It could be a playstyle thing, but I find it suspicious how every teeny thing causes him to change his vote. It feels like IP puts no thought into his votes whatsoever.

Combine that with the fact that his predecessor was the guy that posted this:

Hm, the problem with the ivy wagon is that as scum her PM should have her against peaceful players, not against Americans or soviets so her assuming that the set-up is Americans vs soviets makes me honestly think she just didn't read it all that closely

and whom I've asked what makes misreading a PM more likely than not getting it and who I thought was suspicious for making up excuses for another player.

[gonnano]

Good wagons: jmj, rat, gonno with a remainder of Thad

gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

This game can use a rat death, jmj death, gonnano death...

This is everything I could find that you've said about me, Llama. Is there any particular

reason

that you think I should die? Like you know I'm town and killing me will help you win, or something?

[Stephoscope]

Reading him in iso, I find it pretty likely that he is scum. I don't like all the little suggestions that he is town.

Little suggestions by whom? bvoigt or others?

By him:

Anyway, if PoisonIvy had received a town PM, she'd know that the win condition is

not

"You win when the Soviets are dead."
VOTE: PoisonIvy

Hm, the problem with the ivy wagon is that as scum her PM should have her against peaceful players, not against Americans or soviets so her assuming that the set-up is Americans vs soviets makes me honestly think she just didn't read it all that closely

Look at the rules post, though:

[4] A possible mafia win condition is: "You win when only Soviet players remain alive or nothing can prevent this"

Well I think that was an example, the actual win cons (unless there are various non-conflicting ones which doesn't make a lot of sense) are about peace and war, not nationality.

Really? Is that what the actual scum win conditions are?

This is a good catch.

Reading him in iso makes me think he's trying to hard to be seen as a verified townie. And I don't like how he's completely ignored my vote.

[bvoigt]

I'm liking RedCoyote. On that note, because it has more support now: UNVOTE: smargaret VOTE: GhostWriter

Also, scum most likely have fake nameclaims and/or not all of the names that they were given are scummy. Nameclaiming would be pointless.

Artem got to this before I did, but what's with the vote hop just because a GW wagon has more support?

@Steph: I'm not really that concerned over just one vote.