Newbie 1101 - Game over!

[Voidedmafia]

cjdrum was attacking me, but I was attacking Voidedmafia.

Answer my reply, boi.

[PersonalIdiot04]

Note that I was the first attacker. BTW, VM is still my top suspect.

@VM: Where did you point that out?

[Incognito]

That's impressive, PersonalIdiot. I'm almost tempted to welcome you to the "town club" after that one (even though you're using the tell kinda incorrectly).

Like Elfen said, Chainsaw Defense isn't a very strong tell until after someone is revealed as scum because sometimes TOWNIES defend people against others too. It's not always just scum who defend others.

The tell generally goes like this (I'll use a real game example from a past game I was in):

Suppose Glork is scum.

Suppose El Destructo makes a great case against Glork and votes him but El Destructo uses meta to make his case against Glork (and El Destructo is known to not like using meta, which makes his use of meta in this example kind of weird).

Suppose Incognito is scum with Glork and instead of saying "wow brilliant case, El Destructo" he says "hey El Destructo, why you using meta to say Glork is scum? vote: El Destructo".

That would be a good example of a Chainsaw Defense because Incog-scum has now "defended" Glork-scum by attacking Glork-scum's attacker (El Destructo).

But you wouldn't really know any of that until either Glork or Incognito flip scum. It's only at that point could someone say "hey, I wonder if when Incog made that vote there if he was defending his scum buddy."



So I like the thought, but I'm gonna have to say no.

[Voidedmafia]

Here, boi

Also, Read this, specifically the bottom part.

[Elfen]

Oh thats what I thought. But I don't think this is the case here, especially when its a newbie game. But I get the terminology as I go along, to lazy to actually find it my self,

[Incognito]

The other thing that makes it difficult to call that a Chainsaw is that cjdrum was actually PRO-Voidedmafia lynch since a very early stage in the game (he was approving Voided's lynch since like real-life day 2). I don't think a cj-scum would just busbusbus his hypothetical Voided-partner so easily and then flip around to attack one of Voided's main attackers.

IMO, the more likely scenario is that cj was just trying to be extremely opportunistic.

Anywho, I'm off for the night.

Deuces.

[PersonalIdiot04]

My misunderstanding.

Anyway, second choice is Grimmjow.

But why was cjdrum attacking me?

[Elfen]

My misunderstanding.

Anyway, second choice is Grimmjow.

But why was cjdrum attacking me?

Your lack of reason...

So, tell us your reason why some of us are town?

[PersonalIdiot04]

I assume that everyone is town to begin with (which is obviously wrong, but whatever).

[Elfen]

I know.. But I am soo suprised, This is the first ever game that people say I am likely town. I mean, in ALL of my games I played.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3029534

# 165 are the games I have played. They go off by meta, which they say is scum like @_@

[dk_peace]

Drinking with buddies from work tonight. Will post in depth tommorow (im off)

[cjdrum]

OH YEAH!

When he unvoted for Voided, he still suspected him, I mean, he still could of held his vote in place, but what strikes me. He blantly FoS'ed sandchocos for a question towards PI, which was pointless to see. How do you call that scummy? Craap I keep forgetting. But I think it was that Cj was posting false info adn trying to suaver some heat off some one.

Good catch.

If Oswald comes on and replies to me adequately enough, I will vote Cj, presumably putting him at L-1 if no one votes/unvotes between now and then.

If CJ is put at L-1 and Oswald replies well, remind Cj to claim if I don't, please?

Incog: lol.

Sooo... I'm at L-1, and it seems that Voided is to hammer.

@Voided: Are you still going to hammer after Oswald's vote?

I'm not going to claim until somebody says that they

will

hammer, without actually doing it. I am mostly looking for Voided's response, but anyone's will do.

But, if I get lynched before I can respond, I'd like to mention Incognito's "herding" of people onto my wagon - making it seem like the Towniest thing to do, congratulating votes on me, etc.
I just wanted to say, just in case somebody hammers me without thinking...

[sanchocolates]

You are at L-2, didn't you see Incognito's unvote when Oswald put you at L-1 for no reason at all? Oswald is annoying me really badly, his infrequent posting and when he does, he just votes for someone with no reason WHATSOEVER.

UNVOTE: Cjdrum
VOTE: Oswald

This'll put him at L-1, and I want him to claim now.

[Elfen]

OH YEAH!

When he unvoted for Voided, he still suspected him, I mean, he still could of held his vote in place, but what strikes me. He blantly FoS'ed sandchocos for a question towards PI, which was pointless to see. How do you call that scummy? Craap I keep forgetting. But I think it was that Cj was posting false info adn trying to suaver some heat off some one.

Good catch.

If Oswald comes on and replies to me adequately enough, I will vote Cj, presumably putting him at L-1 if no one votes/unvotes between now and then.

If CJ is put at L-1 and Oswald replies well, remind Cj to claim if I don't, please?

Incog: lol.

Sooo... I'm at L-1, and it seems that Voided is to hammer.

@Voided: Are you still going to hammer after Oswald's vote?

I'm not going to claim until somebody says that they

will

hammer, without actually doing it. I am mostly looking for Voided's response, but anyone's will do.

But, if I get lynched before I can respond, I'd like to mention Incognito's "herding" of people onto my wagon - making it seem like the Towniest thing to do, congratulating votes on me, etc.
I just wanted to say, just in case somebody hammers me without thinking...

Hmm? Are you suggesting that you are scum? or soft claiming that you are??

[cjdrum]

Which part would I be suggesting I'm scum in?
I don't really see... Where it is or why I would

[Elfen]

"making it seem like the Towniest thing to do, congrates votes on me, etc.

[cjdrum]

Haha, I'm saying there that it kind of seems like Incog is doing those things - not trying to do that to myself.

[Incognito]

But why was cjdrum attacking me?

If you're town and cjdrum is scum like I suspect, it's possible that he thought the tide might have been shifting against you. Think about what was happening at the time: a bunch of us were pressing you to give reasons for stuff and such; maybe he thought a wagon might have formed on you in a short time so that by FoS-ing you, he was laying the groundwork down for a smooth transition on to you.

But, if I get lynched before I can respond, I'd like to mention Incognito's "herding" of people onto my wagon - making it seem like the Towniest thing to do, congratulating votes on me, etc.
I just wanted to say, just in case somebody hammers me without thinking...

This is just bizarre.

- You somehow completely

missed

the fact that I switched my vote to Oswald after he put you at L-1
- You for whatever reason don't have any problem with the fact that Oswald did what he did in the manner that he did
- If you genuinely found me scummy for this "herding" stuff or whatever, wouldn't that make you want to focus on my actions even more? To completely miss my vote switch... Just wow.


All of this looks like a pretty obvious attempt to try to discredit me and to try to scare people off from hammering you. What do you think of Oswald?

[PersonalIdiot04]

OK, I'm getting sick of Oswald. Soooo...
UNVOTE: Voidedmafia and VOTE: Oswald.
That should be the three-pound sledgehammer. If not, then whatever.

[Incognito]

NO NO NO! WHY PI? UGH.

[Incognito]

PI, you've been reading the Wiki right? Why would you hammer without a claim like that?

I HOPE Oswald flips scum.

[Incognito]

Quick list just in case I'm not around on Day 2. All of this is pre-Oswald flip meaning that depending on what alignment Oswald flips, these reads are subject to change:

dk_peace:

Neutral. Needs to contribute a lot more.

PersonalIdiot:

Leaning town but that hammer... ugh.

Elfen:

Towntowntown.

Grimmjow:

Neutral. Needs to contribute a lot more.

sanchocolates:

Towntowntown.

Voidedmafia:

Very likely town.

cjdrum:

Scumscumscum.

NEVER HAMMER WITHOUT A CLAIM AGAIN. JUST NO.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, FFS, I thought I left QLs at home.

AND YOU EVEN DID WHAT YOU WERE CLAIMING I WAS ADVOCATING, YOU HYPOCRITAL FOOL!

In any case, I find myself in agreement with Incog's reads, except PI's more scummy than what Incog thinks.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: HYPOCRITICAL!*

[dk_peace]

This was pretty disconcerting. I finally get a day off and was really looking forward to playing and here is a hammer right in my way. Oh well. I'm gonna go ahead and put out some reads on some people now just in case.
PI is now on my watch list for pretty obvious reasons. While I'm willing to admit that scared little n00b is the much more likely scenario.....this hammer business definitely bothers me enough to take notice.
On cjdrum (I realize a lot of this has already probably been said but I'm going to analize the case for myself): I feel like his post 109 is legitimately scummy despite his unvote. Saying he's comfortable lynching someone that early and specifically stating he wanted Voided to "to confirm that he isn't a Power Role" feels so bad to me. Especially given that the case on Voided was not particularly strong. His accusation that PI was busing Voided is illogical for two separate reasons. 1) He unvoted Voided (which in this scenario must be scum) and 2) PI was the first to vote for Voided (not exactly busing).
More to come shortly