I didn't change the kill guidelines, per se, I simply established a set of rules for deciding on an outcome if a night ended with everyone dead. If it occurred with only two teams still in play, you got what you see. Since there never would have been a successful lynch vote, it would have boiled down to waiting for somebody to make a mistake in their night choices (which nearly happened here), which wasn't how I wanted the game to end.
If all three teams were still in play, the melee would have ended with everybody getting up unharmed. With three teams, a lynch vote would still have been possible, though it might have been hard to come to agreement on who to lynch. After that, night would proceed with some progress having been made.
I didn't change the kill guidelines, per se, I simply established a set of rules for deciding on an outcome if a night ended with everyone dead. If it occurred with only two teams still in play, you got what you see. Since there never would have been a successful lynch vote, it would have boiled down to waiting for somebody to make a mistake in their night choices (which nearly happened here), which wasn't how I wanted the game to end.
If all three teams were still in play, the melee would have ended with everybody getting up unharmed. With three teams, a lynch vote would still have been possible, though it might have been hard to come to agreement on who to lynch. After that, night would proceed with some progress having been made.
Woohoo! I thought for sure we were dead when we were down early but we strategized nicely and resurrected ourselves from the dead.
As it turns out, my decision to pick Rock worked perfectly-if we had picked Scissors, they would have won. Man, that game was hard-I thought for sure we were dead after we were down a paper at the outset. I thought we were dead half a dozen times, but things worked out just right.
Great game, Fuldu. I predicted at the start that the game would be a classic and it looks that way, at least from my (biased) point of view.
I don't know. The fact that it didn't occur that way *except* in the endgame makes me feel funny about it. If Rock could have never night-killed Paper, that would be one thing... we could have at least had a chance to figure that out. But then, Mgm wouldn't have died to Scissors, so it would have been a very different game.
On a completely unrelated note, I'm highly amused that I was targeted for death Night One by two other Rocks.
BTW, Fuldu, you said in another thread that this game was turning out much differently than you expected. How so? And what was your theory as to whether or not it was good to lynch?
I had expected there to be a greater effort on the part of more of the players to hide their allegiances. Basically, there were only two attempts, when Narninian voted for a fellow paper Day One, and when STD lied about his mafia. That made figuring out who was on what teams, as Mr. Flay then did, much, much easier.
I think lynching was a crucial part of the game, but I think it would have made better sense for more people to behave as Narninian did. Once it became obvious who was going to be lynched, it was in everyone's interest to get on the wagon, just like it is when scum know that one of their own is on the chopping block. I hadn't expected there to be no kills Night One, so I figured someone with an investigation against one of the non-killed teams would suggest a lynch and everybody would go for it. With all three teams still at full strength, it made picking one lynch over another much harder. Later lynches all went pretty much as I would have expected, though choosing to eliminate DarkLight140 instead of letting him decide which team lost one of two members was a surprise. Obviously, that was a bad decision for Rock, though they didn't know that.
I don't know. I would have said that once Paper got down to two people, everyone would be more concerned with getting the kills targeted against the other enemy than getting rid of them- that's actually the first thing that occured to me as Paper started going down in numbers. Since whoever went down first gained rapidly in effective power, "dodging the odds" isn't a phrase I'd use to describe what Paper did at all.
Except for the last night. I was so very sure I'd managed to pull a draw, too... I figured that going 2v1v1 was asking for someone to venefully kill me instead of the 2-team.
I disagree Darklight. Much of the discussion was to get rid of the papers-which IMO was the correct play. What hurt you guys was that we decided directly after pwnz was lynched to kill scissors. If we hadn't done that, we were shot right there. Also, we weren't getting a lot of nightkills anyway.
Looking at the night choices, two people messed up that night. Scissors, it looks like, pulled off our part flawlessly and threw a protect in as well, but Rock stopped our kill, and only one of you Papers targeted us in any case. If not for StrykkerVerde's mistake, you'd have lost the game- your plan to kill Scissors made no difference at all. After that, though...
DarkLight140 wrote:Looking at the night choices, two people messed up that night. Scissors, it looks like, pulled off our part flawlessly and threw a protect in as well, but Rock stopped our kill, and only one of you Papers targeted us in any case. If not for StrykkerVerde's mistake, you'd have lost the game- your plan to kill Scissors made no difference at all. After that, though...
Bingo-if not for SV screwing up, we never even sniff the endgame.
I find it interesting how two different decisions were made during the game that went different directions. Rather than eliminate Paper completely, both sides negotiated for Paper's assistance. Then, when it was 2 v. 2 v. 1, we made exactly the opposite decision and eliminated Scissors.
Well, in the case of Paper, you still would have had a loose cannon firing that night (only one of the two could have been lynched), and the balance of power didn't allow either Scissors or Rock to risk being targeted by that person.
With Scissors at 1, it was a no-brainer, or so I thought...
The difference between the 3v3v2 and 2v2v1 scenarios is that when oneteam has significantly more kill-power, it's more worth it to have them on your side- getting numers AND kills- rather than just getting numbers in the 2v2v1 thing. If things had worked as I'd planned, it would have been in my interest to get lynched (thereby ensuring a draw) and in your guys' interest to get me on your side (thereby bringing up the possibility of the 1-man teams targeting each other, giving the 2-man team a win). Or so I thought.
I considered allowing everyone to die if all three teams were still in play and day dawned with everyone dead. But that scenario still allows for a lynch to occur, even if everyone knows who everyone else is, so I finally decided that that scenario would results in everyone walking away bruised but alive.
Hmm-so there would have been a winner, no matter what. Interesting. That would have changed a lot of play styles if we had known that from the beginning.
No, actually I *am* saying we agree to no-lynch and no-kill when we get to 2-2 (assuming we'd killed Scissors correctly). I'd forgotten that Fuldu said we couldn't avoid killing... I thought it would be the perfect way to end the conference, with a new alliance. 8)
Oh, and Locus, you shot your own team's chances. I thought seriously about going with scissors-Darklight played a very good game, but I just didn't feel that I could trust Locus after his whole "must go after scissors" spiel. If we had gone with scissors, scissors would have won, oddly enough.
I figured that going 2v1v1 was asking for someone to venefully kill me instead of the 2-team.