TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[DeasVail]

KK is probably not scum.

Hito:

Read of Magua if Ajax is town?

Magua:

Read of me?

The most incriminating thing about what was brought up in

Post 126

is that Ajax never (as far as I'm aware) responded to it. I have done contradictory things as town before and been caught out for them, but I've always responded, and tried to explain my thought process behind what I've said.

[Magua]

Regfan is threatening my family at knifepoint if I don't post his reads:

- Fonz is town.
- hito is probably town. Reg sees some of what I don't like about hito, but still has him as probtown (lolhydradissonance). I disagree, and I control the vote, but whatever I can do to keep from yelling at me in the QT.
- T-Bone is town due to meta. Not sold on this one, personally, but see above.
- theamatuer is scum.
- Zar, who Regfan apparently knows from off-site, may be a newbie here but has extensive experience offiste, and really, really, really, really, really enjoys playing scum. No definitive meta-tells or anything, but a general "watch."
- MoI and Reckoner are huge nulls for Reg (though he enjoys my back and forth with MoI). I disagree on MoI (town), agree on Reck.
- Ajax was an early high scumread for Reg, but now he feels it's more possible to be town who's getting into the swing of the game (loldistancing).

Reg's lynch list is theamatuer > Ajax > Zar.

Magua: Read of me?

I have no read of you, though I liked you more when you were voting hitogoroshi.

Reg thinks you're town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can't wait for the avalanche of "Magua is trying to act Town by posting reads unbidden" statements

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 1, Votecount 12

Captain Ajax (6) - hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail, BBMolla, T-Bone, MagnaofIllusion

theamatuer (4) - Kublai Khan, The Fonz, Captain Ajax, Magua
Magua (1) - xRECKONERx
BBmolla (2) - theamatuer, Zar

Not voting

(0) :

No one

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:

21st of May at 11:50pm (EDT)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-05-21 23:50:00)

Countdown to the end of First Half Judging

: Deadline passed

[Magua]

Magua is trying to act Town by posting reads unbidden

[Magua]

(Though technically, it's not unbidden, since Regfan was bidding me to post those reads pretty damn hard.[1])

[1] If you know what I mean.[2]

[2] And I think you do.

[The Fonz]

OK, so things I picked up on when re-reading with focus on the players I haven't really noticed or talked about so far:

Holy jesus this is complex. It's cool, but give me a bit to quite understand it.

This reads like a pre-emptive excuse for lurking/undercontributing - asking for time to get his head around it.

MoI is town, Fonz is town.

Hmmmm. Hito calling both of the best-known players in the game town within a couple of pages without explaining. That's questionable. That said his Ajax vote is not..

that

bad, given that it's page two. Jumping on any slight thing you can find early on is townish.

Zar 48 on top of his earlier 'joke' vote is really not saying desire to scumhunt to me.

BB 52-54 are completely empty posts.

God, T-Bone's entry post (58) is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

62-63 (Zar) do look like genuine scumhunting, though.

Oooh, T-Bone, one post after saying he has no clue at all, blatantly sheeps Zar? Yeah, that's scummy.

So, DeasVail is on Ajax without putting nearly the emotional energy into it that Quilford or MOI did.

Reck changes his mind and does a mea culpa, that's kind of a town sign.

I know I'm posting infrequently, but I'm reading through the thread.

This is an actual admission of tactical lurking. I'm not sure I like the combo of Gaoth and TheAmatuer, even if either on their own might have been justifiable. It's the GreyICE thing.

Zar's 136 is much, much better. Earlier suspicion of him subsiding.

I'm currently not going to say anything regarding Ajax because I'm playing a game of Hands Up If You See It and I don't want to end it prematurely. Feel free to ISO Ajax and put your hands up if you see it. Of course even saying this means a teammate might point it out to him but c'est la vie.

Probably time for Hito to reveal the secret scumtell here.

Reck's vote in Gaoth in 139 feels bad, but then I look at the timestamps and see it was only one day since his single post, which means it wasn't at all clear that he'd simply flaked. The way he argues with Quilford, though, feels like town Reck.

If Ajax flips scum, we lynch Gaoth tomorrow, no questions no compromise.

As a result of this, if Ajax flips town and Magua flips scum at any point, I'd have a high level of confidence that Hito is Magua's buddy.

BBMolla votes Ajax at the end of a wall, very little of which actually talks about Ajax. If Ajax is town, he's up there with DV for scum on the wagon.

P.Edit (3-you fucking asshole let me post) - It read like an honest freak out. You went up in standing.

This is town reasoning.

#193 (DV) feels off. So does 202, actually.

I'm basing my current town read on him merely on his response to #151, I don't think a Mafia aligned player would admit to having listed a game as it's fifth preference + prefering to play scum.

Dammit, that's a good point, although somewhat WIFOM.

So, T-Bone returns in #242 and his top suspects just so happen to be the two with the biggest wagons? Either this guy can't think for himself, or he's scum. Plus thinks Captain Ajax is scum, and yet I'm one of his top town reads without any explanation when I've spent most of the day trying to destroy the CA wagon?

Fonz: Why do you lurker hunt?

Because in towns that won't, lurking is a dominant strategy for scum: not lynching lurkers means losing to lurking scum. That said, be very clear that my reason for voting TheAmatuer is not just that he was posting sparsely, but that when he did, he didn't choose to scumhunt (to make the comment he did on the game theory discussion demonstrates that he was following fairly closely, but he chose to make that post rather than giving any opinions on alignment).

I'm going to quote Magua's #268 next time anyone tries to push some BS 'slip' line.

KK is probably not scum.

Hito:

Read of Magua if Ajax is town?

Magua:

Read of me?

The most incriminating thing about what was brought up in

Post 126

is that Ajax never (as far as I'm aware) responded to it. I have done contradictory things as town before and been caught out for them, but I've always responded, and tried to explain my thought process behind what I've said.

This is why DeasVail is my other pick for scum on the Ajax wagon, along with T-Bone. Now, DeasVail has been on the Ajax wagon since page three. Go look at his posts since then in his ISO. Is this the ISO of someone trying to push a wagon on a player he believes is scum?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Hmmmmm. Zar's point about TheAmatuer really resonates with me. And yet, I still think TheAm is the better of the top two wagons, and I'm not sure BBMolla is a better counterwagon. I like everyone on the Am wagon better than pretty much everyone on Ajax.

[DeasVail]

The Fonz:

Would you have preferred it if I had added to the pushing of the Ajax wagon?

[The Fonz]

The Fonz:

Would you have preferred it if I had added to the pushing of the Ajax wagon?

I would have felt you less likely scum, because I'd have been more convinced you believed in the CA wagon.

[Captain Ajax]

Another long day at work, and BOY did I miss a lot of posting. Three more pages. And apparently, I'm on the verge of being lynched.

I guess I've really screwed this one up. I need to come forward now:

I've already got a Scummie. And I don't mean the "Best Town Performance Scummie" (and definitely not the "Best Mafia Performance Scummie"). I have the "Paragon of Mafia Hunters Scummie". I'm a cop. (And a horrible one, apparently.)

Let's see what I need to respond to:

Actually, I think I need to detangle this mini-bandwagon on BBmolla.

Can you quickly clarify what you mean by 'detangle?'

Maybe "detangle" was a bad word. I just wanted to get a better read on the people that were on that strange mini-bandwagon.

Brings me back to Ajax and Teamatuer. I don't like either's ISOs. On one hand Ajax's posting hasn't been very good. One thing I picked out that I found scummy is #148. Ajax if you are town, you are the only 100% confirmed to yourself. I think at this point whether you 100% agreed or not, you should have been on the counterwagon at the time (goeth). For the simple fact that from a town point of view you have a 0% chance of being scum, but Goeth has a 25% of being scum. It looks like you were defending the counterwagon for town cred. I'd just have voted him in your position cause I know I'm 100% town and it's the one thing I am sure of. Ajax's ISO doesn't really get better with time. All of his posts are empty.

True, from my point of view, Goeth had a 25% chance of being scum. Which meant that if I had any kind of scumread on anyone else, that would make that person MORE likely than Goeth to be scum. Which meant that me voting for Goeth would be the wrong move.

I'm going to vote for whoever I think is likeliest to be scum. Which definitely was not (and still is not) Goeth.

So why you should hammer Captain Ajax –

1. Faux Town-posting.

I’ve already gone over this several times.

Hito: let's keep the judging groups secret. Not sure if it makes a difference, but the less the scum knows, the better.

As already stated – this is very much Faux posting. He states what is an obvious Town stance “Let’s keep the group secret. I don’t know if it matters but the less scum knows the better”. No-one can disagree that keeping the groups secret TODAY is a good move.

Yet this post doesn’t actually contemplate the possible benefits of claiming all or a portion of the information from the groups later. The groups will be re-shuffled for Day 2 so there is no inherent disadvantage to claiming membership Day 2. So he’s presenting a Town front without showing any evidence of the thought process behind the post.

Ahem. This post you're referring to was my very first of the game. My apologies for not having the best town strategy perfectly thought out before my first post.

The most incriminating thing about what was brought up in

Post 126

is that Ajax never (as far as I'm aware) responded to it. I have done contradictory things as town before and been caught out for them, but I've always responded, and tried to explain my thought process behind what I've said.

Here's the post you're talking about:

Oh, by the way:

I read Quilford's answers

, and I'm satisfied with them.

I'm sure that was understood, but I better make that explicit

, or hito will probably jump on that too...

T-Bone:

I had only skimmed Quilford's posts before

. Now I'm looking at them more carefully.

For those who like brevity, how you can look at this and think Ajax is not lying scum is beyond me.

Okay. My comment on this:

1. Sarcasm. Hito already seemed determined to take anything I said and turn it into a "scumslip". I suddenly realized what he would likely do next, so I decided to deny him the opportunity.

2. Honestly, I don't know what I need to respond to here. Is it that unusual for a player to catch things on a second (or third or fourth) read-through that he missed the first time?

[theamatuer]

see?
ajax, have you recieved it from a scummies group, or started out with it?

[Magua]

Ajax's claim sucks. Seriously sucks. Mod meta on Faraday is no cops. Have no mod meta on Mina, need to look that up.

theamatuer's reaction to the claim is town, unless theamatuer and Captain Ajax are partners, which I class as unlikely.

UNVOTE: theamatuer

Ajax's claim just feels off in so many different ways, but not hammering yet. Want to talk to Regfan first

so he can yell at me

.

[Magua]

@Ajax:

Please qualify the details of what your reports would look like: "Innocent/Guilty", etc, and any other details about your ability that seem pertinent.

[hitogoroshi]

Hito:

Read of Magua if Ajax is town?

Eh, hard to say. Nullish, still scummier than my town reads. Of course if Ajax is town that means enough of my assumptions are wrong that I'm gonna need to really shake up my valuation of the game state, hard to predict what my reads would be then.

I'm currently not going to say anything regarding Ajax because I'm playing a game of Hands Up If You See It and I don't want to end it prematurely. Feel free to ISO Ajax and put your hands up if you see it. Of course even saying this means a teammate might point it out to him but c'est la vie.

Probably time for Hito to reveal the secret scumtell here.

I did:

MoI, your 261 looks like it needs a 3, and no one wants to play Hands Up If You See It with me, so: guess who's

never ever

had an explicit town-read?

That was referring to Ajax.

Kublai Khan: How many awards did your scummie judging group decide between?

[hitogoroshi]

Eh, won't bother waiting for KK because I'm pretty sure I'm right, he can come DISPROVE if his group only judges on two awards, but assuming 3 awards -

Three scummies judging groups, three awards each, two days. 3 * 3 * 2 = 18. There are 18 awards in the OP, Paragon is one of them. Honk honk.

[Magua]

What mod meta I can find on Mina says no cops either (Mina's NY 145 and Lost Butterfly's Mafiascum Fantasy Camp).

PEdit: hito, I take back all the terrible things I said about you.

[Magua]

Going to bed. 98.6% that Ajax is lying, but the OCD in me still wants to hear his response before a hammer.

[Quilford]

Hahaha. I love when already trapped scum nail their coffin shut by making a horrible fakeclaim.

I can guarantee, almost 100%, that Captain Ajax is not a cop. Not just because I think he's scum. And not because I'm a cop, either. (I'm not.) He's made a very avoidable mistake. Hammer him.

[Quilford]

Also, a fully powered cop in Team Mafia makes no sense. Kill it with fire.

[Quilford]

Oh, by the way:

I read Quilford's answers

, and I'm satisfied with them.

I'm sure that was understood, but I better make that explicit

, or hito will probably jump on that too...

T-Bone:

I had only skimmed Quilford's posts before

. Now I'm looking at them more carefully.

For those who like brevity, how you can look at this and think Ajax is not lying scum is beyond me.

Okay. My comment on this:

1. Sarcasm. Hito already seemed determined to take anything I said and turn it into a "scumslip". I suddenly realized what he would likely do next, so I decided to deny him the opportunity.

2. Honestly, I don't know what I need to respond to here. Is it that unusual for a player to catch things on a second (or third or fourth) read-through that he missed the first time?

I appreciate your dying attempts at humour, Captain. If you were being sarcastic, you would have said it long ago.

[Quilford]

There are 18 awards in the OP, Paragon is one of them. Honk honk.

Also, y'know, this.

[Quilford]

Oh and here are my reads.

xRECKONERx - town
MagnaofIllusion - town
BBmolla - town
Kublai Khan - meh
The Fonz - scum
Magua - meh
T-Bone - town
theamatuer - meh
Captain Ajax - scum
DeasVail - town
Zar - meh
hitogoroshi - town

The Fonz is super scum. His latest wallpost is filled with terrible, and it hits you from the first quote stripe. Look at that terrible extrapolation of BBmolla's words. Following that you have some unexplained reads coming from players posts (note him turning up the 'stream of consciousness' to justify a lack of explanation), afterwards you get a nice slice of quote pie with some IIoA on top, more unexplained reads and some mafia theory to round it off.

[BBmolla]

1) In this game, every Scummie award represents a role or effect. The following Scummies may be assigned by the town:

^This pretty much confirms someone had to have assigned it for it to be true.

So if a group assigned it they should claim obvs.

[BBmolla]

It still makes no sense because nobody in the right mind would give it to Ajax.

[Quilford]

1) In this game, every Scummie award represents a role or effect. The following Scummies may be assigned by the town:

^This pretty much confirms someone had to have assigned it for it to be true.

So if a group assigned it they should claim obvs.

Not to mention

d) The eligible player with the most votes will win the category and be informed of his new role during twilight. We will use random.org to break a tie. You may abstain from voting, but if no one votes, then this award is also undecided.