Newbie 1425 Part Deux -- Game Over

[Wisdom]

Who said I don't accept it now?

[RayFrost]

"wow all the sheeping" kind of implies you have a problem with it.

Considering you didn't bring it up before.

[Wisdom]

I don't like it but it doesn't make them scum or anything

[ObsessedWithCats]

Sorry I didn't get back here as quick as I'd hoped, I had a really busy week and it didn't calm down midway as I'd expected. I'll be around on and off for the remainder of the deadline though.

I'd be reasonably happy with lynching IV if it weren’t for one problem- from everyone else I've generally noticed a few of things that are some degree of scummy/dodgy and a few things I think could reasonably or certainly be town-motivated, but with IV it's a couple of thing that are vaguely dodgy, and a vast percentage of no-content posts. Unless he's a PR he's going to be zero help to town at that rate, but that brings me to my main concern about lynching him - can anyone really see him turning up before the deadline to claim if he’s something we need alive? Lynching him as a protective role would be disastrous - it's not something that would be hampered by his current 'activity' level, so we'd lose a lot if we lynched him day one and he turned out to be a doctor or town jailkeeper.

Regarding the votes on me (I realise they're not all still there, but since ER brought it up I thought I'd add my thoughts) I could see Wisdom's vote coming from town (I'd not completely rule out that he's scum, but it looked like some serious scumhunting even if it was miss-aimed and much of it based on the (false) deduction that something I’d said was a lie.), I really didn't like ArcAngel's vote (she didn't have anything on me I hadn't already pretty much answered, and didn't give any counter for said answers that I saw) and Guyett's vote could go either way. The 'sheeping Wisdom' bit I didn't really like given that my responses to Wisdom's accusations have gone completely unanswered, but ‘seeing what happens with the wagon’ I was more comfortable with because it implies a much broader information-gathering aim, regardless of my responses, even if we are a bit tight on time for that.

[Wisdom]

That's a good point and it makes me think that scum are just trying to make the PR claim - we've had two claims already and now there's a push on someone unclaimed out of nowhere.

[Guyett]

A lot of people need to read older course

no idea what this was meant to mean. was drunk and on my phone and I suspect spell check ruined what I wanted to say.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: singer

[RayFrost]

That's a good point and it makes me think that scum are just trying to make the PR claim - we've had two claims already and now there's a push on someone unclaimed out of nowhere.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: singer

To be honest, I don't really like either of the cats or guyett lynch but in terms of risk vs reward in opting to lynch between two town reads, guyett is better due to information: he's interacted more, his role is already claimed (no risk of outting / lynching a pr), etc.

I'd much prefer to lynch innocent villager but at this point I don't see that as a reality, especially since my reasoning behind him is mostly "I feel like he's more likely scum than town, not enough posts to really back this up with anything"

Because his posting feels like he has been trying to manipulate people and look town.
Because his Guyett jump despite earlier claims that he absolutely did not want him lynched is terrible.

Wisdom's position in my mind is slipping.

[Wisdom]

Ok, so I don't normally try flash wagons this close to deadline, but I did a quick ISO of IV and this is what I got:
1. rvs vote
2. mod-is-scum post
3. promise for content
4. fluff content
5. fluff repeating facts
6. fluff waffling over RachMarie
7. fluff arguing about meta
8. promise for content
9. no-opinion-vote post
10. promise for content

Of all ten posts, there's two random joke posts, two "logistics" posts while simultaneously fence-sitting, one serious vote post with no prior opinion or current explanation on the guy he's voting for, one with a remote possibility of adding content, and three promises for more.

This is not someone ready to play the game, yet he volunteered to replace into it?

It's not only that this case is terrible, it's that singer disregards everything happening and tries to push a deadline lynch out of nowhere. All of these things are not scumtells, a busy or apathetic town could easily have done any or all of these.

What's extra interesting is that she pushes IV of all people, IV that RayFrost previously said that he would like to push. She knows she will have support from there. And she knows there are some blind sheep in this town, which she got right.

It's the perfect opportunity to try and get a third claim, or if she's lucky and IV doesn't manage to claim, a PR lynch.

I'll also note that previously she was trying to shift suspicion to me, probably in an attempt to do the same on me instead of IV, but that didn't work for her so she completely forgot anything she had on me and focused on IV.

[RayFrost]

In case what I just showed isn't clear, I'll break it down:

He goes from arguing with me that choosing between two of my town reads and choosing based off of not wanting to make someone claim was bad to using the pushing of someone unclaimed out of nowhere as reason to jump someone unclaimed out of nowhere (he has one previous scummy mention of singer which was "singer is pressuring me, so scummy").

Every single one of his posts feels designed specifically to shut off any vote that isn't where he wants it to be: by breaking people's momentum via attacking them arbitrarily. Which is relevant to the last post: manipulating people and trying to look town. Anytime anyone votes not-what-he-wants his vote goes to that person. Then he eventually transitions away from his aggression whenever he's curbed whatever it was he wanted to curb. This is displayed in his handling of me: I think RMarie is scum, he goes hard on me until I back off from the position, then he goes hard on me again when I take another position that he doesn't like, then drops the point of argument because someone's being aggressive towards him (singer), then he hard balls into singer because singer's opting for a choice that he doesn't like, using the very un-supportable reasoning of basically "it could be scum pushing for a PR claim!" when he's voting for an unclaimed person and has already stated that voting based on information is anti-town and that we lynch scum and ignore claimed / unclaimed.

He's basically cherry picking whatever side to the arguments that most help whatever he wants to back, he's trying to curb activity and thoughts that aren't exactly in line with his way of thinking, and he shows a complete and total brick wall attitude to any attempt to convince him of anything that he doesn't agree with. Which sshows a complete unwillingness to be a team-based player. He's playing as if he isn't part of a group of people, which is a self-centered (aka scum) viewpoint.

His claims that guyett was for sure town then going and being hyper-aggressive on guyett due to guyett sheeping while completely ignoring arcangel's sheeping combined with him having issue with the recent sheeping (yet hand waving it as general dislike but w/e doesn't mean anything about alignment)

P-edit:

Wisdom basically just said that singer is pushing a lynch on someone who is unclaimed to get information at deadline, but... she could just as easily do that on cats, who is more likely to be lynched and a lot easier to get away with (I mean, think about it: wisdom basically hand waved arcangel's blatant "sheeping wisdom" post. What risk is there for singer, who wisdom already said he thinks is town?).

You're pointing too many fingers, Wisdom. Not everyone in this game can be scum, yet you're trying to argue every point on everyone as if they're all true.

[RayFrost]

Also, there are 8 hours left to deadline.

There's three votes on cats, three votes on villager, one vote on cats, and one vote on singer.

[RayFrost]

As much as I would like to get into this row with wisdom (he's not really a scum read, but I really dislike the discrepancies), we're down to almost no time left.

People, pick a horse.

[Wisdom]

I had a case on cats. I didn't just point at him and say "omg no content lets lynch him" and I did not ignore the rest of the game either.

[RayFrost]

How to show you didn't even read an entire post, by dr. wisdom.

[Wisdom]

I read it. You're attacking my playstyle and arguing it's anti-town. I don't care.

IV has done nothing scummy to warrant the "we lynch scum without caring about claimed/unclaimed", it cannot compare to me wanting to lynch you or cats or anyone because I had legitimate reasons. signer just ignored the game and pointed at someone and called for his lynch for complete bullshit reasons, knowing that she will have support there.

[ObsessedWithCats]

Three on

Guyett

, three on IV, one on me, one on Singer. If I'm counting right.

I probably wouldn't go so far as to say the wagon on IV is necessarily an intentional attempt at killing a PR, but I think it's something we need to be much more cautious about than we're being already. The problem here is there's no one as I see it with any votes on them:
a) who I think is reasonably likely to be scum
b) who I think is very unlikely to be a town PR, and
c) who's wagon, in the event that we lynch them, would consist of enough votes that aren't 'well we need to lynch

someone

' votes to be informative at all.

a) and b) being priority, since they'd hopefully make c) relatively unimportant, I'd probably vote for Guyett. But that's mostly on b), and I can just imagine if he flips VT and most of the wagon was just there for the sake of avoiding a no lynch, in which case we'd have a situation only marginally better than no lynch anyway :/

Wisdom you say you still have a case on me, I take it you're not accepting my 'newbie error/oversight' defence?

[Wisdom]

Not really, but I don't care enough for you right now. Your recent posts were better.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.12

Guyett - 3 - RachMarie, Evil Regals, innocentvillager
innocentvillager - 3 - singersigner, Guyett, RayFrost
ObsessedWithCats - 1 - ArcAngel9
singersigner - 1 - Wisdom

Not Voting: ObsessedWithCats

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-19 13:54:09)

[singersigner]

Lol, who's trying to pub a deadline lynch now?

[Wisdom]

It was already explained what the difference between what you're doing and what I have been doing is.

[RayFrost]

Your unwillingness to lynch because it's not who

you

want is genuinely anti-town.

Lynch > No Lynch

[Wisdom]

Not going to lynch who singer wants. Maybe I'll vote Guyett.

[ObsessedWithCats]

If it's IV versus Guyett I'd definitely feel safer going for Guyett.

But is Guyett really better than no lynch if Wisdom and I are both voting for him just because Lynch > No Lynch?

[Guyett]

VOTE: Wisdom

You're all over the place firing votes in any direction to see if any will stick

[Wisdom]

@Cats
Yes, no-lynch is terrible because we'll have absolutely no information to go on.

@Guyett
I'm voting who I think is scum.