Tales of You (Dead zone)

[zMuffinMan]

yeah but scum hunting off of "scumminess" only works if a SK is less "scummy" than town players. A SK who's been genuinely looking for scum all game and trying to look town isn't going to come across as "scummy" thus fuck SK setups

i mean, i imagine there are people who will say, "omg it's easy because SKs always float play under the radar and they don't actually look town!" but that's so bullshit and only tells me that whoever says that doesn't have any idea how to play SK.

[zMuffinMan]

town probably has a decent chance of winning this, actually

still rooting for a scum win though!

go scum!

[pieguyn]

quick question:

JSU - All of day one and two you were arguing for an obviously town Cupcake Panda. Why did yesterday you immediately jump on the ohmygosh obvscum brigade and ditching your ohmygosh oh so town read and NOT account for any possibility that he could still be town and something went awry with the roles.

HINT ITS BECAUSE THEYRE SCUM

[pieguyn]

gog fmdan shit im so dam thired right now

i ant form coherent thoughts at all

[Katsuki]

I have you, JSU, PV, and RG as strong town with AP, Nacho, and Penguin as scum. Fox and Magenta are null.

what reads

[mastin2]

AP, you did it wrong.
It's B A.

(His reads are BS, btw.)

God dammit AP you know me better than this.

Why, yes he does.

His alignment is therefore suspect.

When Mastin isn't all that great at reading AP.

Like fucking hell I'm not.

mastin was toxifying the gamestate and if i looked i bet i could find some variation of "i'll be glad when mastin is dead so that the noise can go away" in everyone's iso

Uh-huh. Sure I was.
*points to the current gamestate*
... *points to the gamestate on D3*
... *points to the gamestate on D1*

...The toxicality is still there on all days, even days I was gone.

I was not the cause, and don't you fucking delude yourself for a fucking second into thinking I was, because if I was, the game would be better off now than it was but you'd have to be fucking blind to not tell that it's just the same if not worse.

I'm really bugged that he was pushing mastinlynch while not being on it as well as being one of the first few people on that abyssmal cupcake lynch yesterday

Notscience is a godsend.

It is pretty obvious I am town here if you rethink everything I've done in this game. You know that my scumgame isn't at a level where I would do such a gambit. I don't care if people who don't know my playstyle think that I gambited but you know it is impossible coming from me. There's also not a chance I'd leave you alive over Pie who was townreading the absolute crap out of me because you are a massive threat to me as scum. I've played with you enough and read enough of your games that I know that if you truly want someone dead, it is highly unlikely that you'd be unable to drive the lynch through. There's no way, I'd let someone like that live on, least of all when they are very closely familiar with my game. Third, look at my activity level. I really shouldn't be posting in this game when I've been so busy - and yet I am. I've been trying really hard to figure this game out even amongst the chaos and the noise. Even, look at the tone of my posts for over 500 posts - walls and all. Look at my interactions with other players, with you etc. It is also really obvious that I genuinely believed in my suspicions of Mastin and Rancid wrong though they may be.

Hey, F-16. Welcome to my club. I made EVERY SINGLE ONE of these points when I was alive.
You kinda ignored them. >_<

Like, seriously. I told you that my claim didn't nor could ever come from a scuMastin, because it goes against my very nature as a scum player. Nor would I have killed either Rancid or Mac, because both were my allies. I'd have killed AP or maybe Nacho, players who I know to be a threat to me. (Or if not them, then someone scumreading me.) Plus, my fucking activity is the highest I've EVER done in a game, unhealthily obsessed with this game. I put more time and effort into figuring out the game than any other player did. Six hours a day. Six fucking hours a day. That's not an exaggeration. I fucking timed it. Six damn hours, every damn day, on average, trying to figure out the game. Literally 1/4th of my life. A QUARTER OF MY FUCKING LIFE. Devoted to ONE singular game and trying to figure it out. >_<

There was no way. NO damn way. I could have ever faked that as scum. I cannot. Literally cannot. Fake that type of tone, even remotely, as scum. That mindset, that effort, came entirely and purely just from a town-me, and everyone who knows me knows it's true.

/still bitter.

[mastin2]

I wondered if there was a simpler explanation than the two of them being buddies: that town-Mastin had caught scum-AP and AP was townreading Mastin because Mastin was town.

I told you as much when I was still living, didn't I? >_>
<_<

(Notscience continues to be a godsend.)

And this game continues to post too quickly.

[mastin2]

Because he's trying to distance from his buddy so that they can secure 2 mislynches w/o both of them getting lynched.

I find it funny that literally everyone talking has Nacho as scum or dunno, maybe scum...
...And yet, no votes are there at all.

Gee, I wonder why.
Maybe it's because it's a scum lynch rather than a town lynch?

[mastin2]

Scum didn't move together as a unit day 1.

There are more ways to move as a unit than pull a Mastin voting-together gambit, you know.

Like intentionally dividing yourself 2:2 on something, or 2:1:1, or if there's lotsa flexibility, 1:1:1:1 even. I'm not talking about on anything specific. Just in general--scum could clearly do anything and likely did, but did so with more coherence than you give them credit for.

Organized chaos, as it may be.

It took forever for wagons to form, and wagons were very unstable, which indicates that scum were likely misdirecting behind a lot of loud town voices.

Yeah, and the players fitting this mold are players like Nacho, AP, and mara/orc.

Scum knew that this town was imploding.

They went ahead and let it happen.

No shit. They even orchestrated some of it. My lynch. Katsuki's lynch. You think those were accidental?

[mastin2]

Also, we're exactly 100 pages from catching Fire Emblem.

Fire Emblem was just as high in hydras as this game. And had more players. And had the children come in. My mental math could be off, but including individual heads, Fire Emblem had something like 40 players total. We've had 32 total.

Admittedly, not all accounted for in both games. But still...

[mastin2]

Also, 7:4 if the scum have a way to multikill is in fact mylo.
6:4 into night.
One kill makes 5:4.
A second kill makes 4:4.
BAM.

[Cabd]

There's no second scum kill. That would be stupid and make this waaaaay scumsided instead of minorly scumsided.

[Katsuki]

Having two scum kills per day is awesome though.

Though, we were a 2-man scumteam in a 15p game I think so.

[Katsuki]

LMAO THE FUCKING CHEEKINESS OF AP

ITS ONE THING TO CALL ME A FAKECLAIMER WHEN IM A VT
ITS A WHOLE OTHER THING WHEN IM A FLIPPED PR

[Katsuki]

I'm really missing the SDC now. No way AP/Nacho get away with what they're doing right now with CAPS raining upon them.

[Katsuki]

I think this game also illustrates perfectly why you DON'T waste time arguing with scum.

I remember poor UK breaking down in Encore mafia because everyone she was arguing with was scum which obviously led to much head-bashing.

[pieguyn]

There's no second scum kill. That would be stupid and make this waaaaay scumsided instead of minorly scumsided.

welp PV's town

AP, JSU, fox and hound, penguin_alien

F-16 pointing out the exact thing I look for in scum nacho makes me wanna go reread him

[zMuffinMan]

SPOILERS, CABD

some of us still want to figure out the game on our own

[Katsuki]

Wanna know scum nacho?

Just look at the BS he pushed me with rofl. I'm literally a magnet for scum to confirm themselves on. As the wise Sociopath once said, the best place to start hunting is from your wagon.

[zMuffinMan]

i can never tell the difference between town who cannot differentiate between my town and scum play and scum who is pretending they can't.

most cases that get pushed against me are either non-existent or gut or "you don't look town enough" or poe or some such bullshit

i also don't get wagoned all too often (odd votes here and there but usually never wagoned)

i mean, even the wagon that happened on me D1 didn't even reach half the vote threshold before getting dismantled

[Katsuki]

It's so easy to tell when I'm town... If there's a wagon on me, it means I'm town 100%.

[mastin2]

Not Science is quickly elevating himself to the Mastin tier this game.

You mean playing awesomely, but getting utterly ignored?
...And maybe being the next mislynch?

...I'd say so, yes. Should-be-leading-town-but-getting-lynched-by-them. That's Mastin-tier this game.

See, doesn't that feel so much better???

No, it really really doesn't.

Where's the Nacho that is lynching scum left and right? I am only seeing excuses about how it is not your fault but no actual performance. Where's the fuel and the fire and the charged up passion and desire to wreck the scum into a thousand tiny pieces?

This. SO MUCH. This. F-16's right. Nacho if he was town would just BE town...and he's not.

I was accusing him of bringing up the passion only when people started wondering about him and sitting back whenever it wasn't necessary. I also said his push on Mastin came at an opportunistic time - at a point when a Mastin lynch was very likely and just needed a little push in that direction to ensure that he got lynched.

My feelings exactly.

i think if scum there was no need for me to be on that wagon

Hey, Nacho.
Guess what?

You weren't.

#scumclaim.

obvtown doesn't get ml'd

*points to D2 and D3*

You defended him ergo the lynch didn't happen. Sure, some others might want it but a true Nacho defense ensures that the lynch doesn't happen and you know it. Mastin would expect nothing less and if your defense was insufficient, she would still scumread you.

Not exactly, but basically, yeah.

If she lived... I have mastin very very very firmly in my pocket

For the record, Nacho, no, you wouldn't have. That read was mainly on bork's posting, not yours. I was paranoid-as-hell about your posting, and it was only when I saw the glimmer of ~passion~ did I townread your half. ~Passion~ which...then vanished.

Or in other words...

But that also means that if you don't take the opportunity to eliminate Mastin, she'd be bulletproof and a constant threat. You said before that Mastin was a threat to you. In Mentor-Mentee, you pointed out how she takes a day or two to nail down a good read on you.

This. Exactly this. Nacho, without bork, is someone I'd inherently have that concern about, and frankly, was at the bottom of my "god tier" list anyway for that reason.

She nailed down the good read on me.

I nailed down nothing. This is not me, rewriting reality. My read on you was decreasing. And you KNEW it was. You knew it was degrading. You fucking knew my read was beginning to fall.

I can recognize when people are stuck in their ways. Mastin was stuck in her ways.

LIKE HELL I WAS. Now? Now I am, of course. My reads are locked in, right or wrong, dammit, I'm sticking to them. When I was alive? FUCK no, my reads changed every fucking post. I'm more of a waffle lady than Tammy ever could be, and everyone entered and left my scum list at some point or another (with a few exceptions).

What if Mastin was accusing your scumbuddies of being scum?

Like AP, mara/Orc, and barely keeping PV out, but theorizing about the scum vig. (Which PV claimed...after I died. Quite convenient, no? That I theorized about a scum fucking vig and that one claims the day after I'm dead.)

I meant it when I said that Nacho began hard pushing me immediately after that theory and that I thought it was significant. I stand by it being true. Wrong person owning the power, right idea behind the theory.

Speaking of which, seriously. Would a town-PV see my theory and just casually ignore it? I think not. Yet he did.

Do you think she would have called me scum if I didn't call her scum?

Except no, it's not. That read was going downhill, especially because I had reasons for scumreads to be town and I was there, thinking. "The game makes sense if one of my stronger townreads is wrong and actually scum." I had this fucking thought. While alive, even. Mighta even posted it at some point.

I have good reason to be cautious about casually clearing you as being 100% town, Nacho. And you damn-well know it, too. That read wasn't going to hold out. You're smart enough to have known that. And to have anticipated it. Yeah, it wasn't going to disappear as soon as it did! Because that thought process takes a while to accept, to admit. But it most certainly WAS going to change.

Also, fairly certain the points about Katsuki lying as town are bullshit, though Kats can confirm or deny them. I know kuribo doesn't fakeclaim as town, and that Katsuki has similarities, at the very least.

Looking back, there were a few things that felt really town from Mastin on hindsight. You know Mastin better than I do - or anyone else. Why didn't you pick up on any of those things?

ALSO THIS.
SO FUCKING MUCH, THIS.

(I also said this when I was alive.)

F-16 is absolutely owning Nacho in their debate.

There were also things I didn't think could possibly come from Mastin as town, and something like that overrides really town parts unless those really town parts couldn't come from mastin-scum, which wasn't the case.

Bullfuckingshit. Rather, the statements are true, but the circumstances you're saying them for aren't. There was absolutely nothing in my game here which I wouldn't do as town--in fact, QUITE THE FUCKING OPPOSITE, THERE WAS EXPLICITLY THINGS I WOULD NEVER DO AS SCUM.
Yeah, there are really, really town things I can do as scum. But you know what? There's basically nothing I don't do as town, given set circumstances. There are EXPLICITLY things I don't do as scum.

But any other game I've seen you, you give people that you know a really long rope when you are town and tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think you gave Mastin a chance (which I guess I didn't either), but it doesn't fit with the Nacho meta I'm aware of.

I SAID THIS NEARLY WORD FOR FUCKING WORD, TOO.

How did you end up misreading town-Mastin that badly? Is there a take-away you got from it? From what I know of your play, you are occasionally fooled by players you know but almost never mislynch them when you are both town which is part of the reason everyone loves you.

Also this.

I guess I'd have expected town-him to step back and let Mastin do his thing for a while and work with Mastin. Then if the towniness doesn't show, drive home the lynch. It just didn't match with Nacho's usual patterns and the way he pushes lynches as town. What does his push on you in Too Many Heads, his push on Wisdom in Z-mafia, his push on Syryana in Stacking the Deck, his push on Bulbazak in BB:HoH, and his push on TheFonz/Implosion in Swagtown all have in common? I didn't see that common factor here especially the commonalities amongst the first three games above.

AND THIS. SO DAMN MUCH, THIS.

/typed without reading more.

[mastin2]

There's no second scum kill. That would be stupid and make this waaaaay scumsided instead of minorly scumsided.

Well, then, I guess I'm forced to treat this post as basically being a free mod confirmation that PV's town, so I'm invoking my "until they're proven wrong" clause of the reads, by pointing to this and essentially saying it's a modflip.

Thus, PV's town. I'll work out what read to stubbornly stick to aside from him in a bit.

[Cabd]

That was actually about another role, but if you wanna take it that way, sure?

[mastin2]

AP, JSU, fox and hound, penguin_alien

Meh.

Who's left in the game, exactly?

{Nacho, mara/orc, AP} is my central core stubborn-scumread-list.
Titan's my rock for townreads. PV's modconfirmed town.
DesBRO could be scum, but I'm doubtful.

Fox/Hound, PA, Red Gyarados, Stalin (Beli).

I'm forgetting a player. Butyeah, sorting them.