↑SirCakez wrote:How are their (Night Hunters) arguments reasonable? Go reread their most recent posts and come back.
Requoting since it was ignored
@Aristophanes
I reread their posts and I don't see how their arguments are unreasonable.
They are stating things clearly, rather than obscuring things. Their arguments make sense. They are pushing it strongly because they both agree. Neither head is faltering in their push which backs this up. 196 especially is an extremely town post, and their push on you is legitimate.
Please, tell me what you think is unreasonable in their posts, because I totally disagree with you here.
Would you like to talk about these reads in more detail?
I can understand why you lean scum on SirCakez, although I do not agree. I definitely agree with your scum-lean on tojam. However you are the first person to openly read me as scummy if I'm not mistaken. Please expound.
How are you arriving at NH, Firebringer, and BBT all at town-leans given the current dynamics of the game? Namely, BBT has called out NH, and Firebringer seems to think there is one scum in NH/BBT. Also, given that GuiltyLion is a large part of the current focus with these players, where do you lean on him and why?
NH/BBT/FB all have town motivations. I can see FB/BBT at a TvT easily. Their interactions screamed that to me. NH I think is also clearly town at this point.
As for my read on you, it is admittedly weak. It had to do with something I had seen at the time and can't remember. I'll have to look back and see what it was.
Consider it a light FoS for now. Nothing serious.
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:42 pm
by BlueBloodedToffee
I'll be catching up with this today.
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:07 am
by tojam2
And your read on me Aristophanes?
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:52 am
by BlueBloodedToffee
↑Night Hunters wrote:All he's done is basically say gee Fire, you need reasons. He's trying to deflect attention off himself.
Now, onto the actual issues you're expressing now. First, SC was hyper about the wagon but this seems a little semantic or a differnce of what is called hyper. SC was very vocal about getting people to hurry up and wagon our slot before we could post. If I thought it was aggressive, I'd say aggressive. Maybe impulsive you'd like better, but he was definitely pushing that hard.
Bullshit on town being more likely to make consistency mistakes. Town should be clear and transparent with their reads. If not, they are doing it wrong.
SC "pushing" fire is because he's desperate to have a place to go that isn't him.
Can you respond to my concerns about GL BBT?
~MamaBear
I disagree that he is trying to deflect attention away from him - how would you expect town!SC to react?
Again, I disagree that SC was pushing hard for your wagon. I don't see it. Scum are much less likely to make consistency mistakes because they're always thinking about what they post and does it fit with the narrative they're trying to sell. Town don't think about such things and are much more likely to post instinctively/on the fly without checking whether what they're saying lines up with previous posting. It's not bullshit, it's legit.
↑Night Hunters wrote:We have been trying not to clutter the thread because we both generally post a butt ton.
-Dad
OK, well I'm not asking you to clutter the thread. I'm asking you to take over some of the posting from Titus.
↑GuiltyLion wrote:
I don't think I ever pushed NH, I poked at them to get a reaction and develop a read. If I were pushing them I'd be voting them.
My phrasing there isn't clear though, at the time I was null on SirCakez. I wanted to emphasize that I didn't think their reasons for scumreading him were all that alignment indicative. Basically, instead of reading it as "I'm seeing him scum, but not as much as they are", which seems to be how you're interpreting it, it should be read like "I see what they're saying, but I don't think it necessarily makes him scum".
I thought their points in 83 were valid, but then their 90 was way overconfident and I don't see pro-town motivation in it. Further, 106 didn't really show any of the deeper level thinking or doubt that I was looking for with my question, it was just "he's scummy". Again, I didn't really disagree with their points about SC, but I didn't think they were as indicative as NH seemingly thinks they are in 90 and 106.
Maybe pushed was too strong - you certainly looked interested in going down that avenue though. The avenue you led them down with your question.
Your phrasing was perfectly clear but now you're trying to change it. It's not 'how I'm interpreting it' it's exactly what your words were saying.
↑GuiltyLion wrote:
So the reason I asked that question to NH is because I'm not seeing SirCakez
as strongly scum as they are
- their push feels forced.
The 'as' is key, it implies you at least agree to an extent with what NH are seeing. So it's pretty scummy for you to try and turn this around to say I'm interpreting your posts incorrectly, I think you realised you couldn't respond to my post and as such needed to try and change the original meaning of what you wrote.
↑massive wrote:
I'm reading it all and I'm trying to figure out who I want to work with / who sounds reasonable. It's not quite so cut and dry this game, and it's early going, and I don't have experience with most of these players. It's not like I've played twenty games with Titus and can magically townread her, or throw out "BBT is scum" because we're always opposite alignment.
There must be some sort of contribution you can make?
↑shaddowez wrote:
I liked his question to NH in 103 and his explanation in 108. I can see not liking his later posts, although 204 looks like he did actually put thought into what he was doing and is able to explain it again.
Tell me specifically what you liked about his question and explanation because I have a serious problem with both of them. What do you think of the above regarding GL? What can you see to 'dislike' about GL's posting?
↑Firebringer wrote:I am fine with lynching BBT or Night Hunters I am sure at least one of the two is scum.
Walk me through this?
↑tojam2 wrote:@BBT or @GL: could you explain why agreeing with someone is scummy?
I am sorry. I may be a mama hen but I absolutely do not run a charity house. You're griping that I'm uncharitable. Well, if scum are obvious, they are obvious. I don't do pity parties for scum who do not fake reads well. Here, I find it very telling you're saying that there's evidence against SirCakez but there's not enough for a legitimate scumread. You're criticizing the validity of my read while hand waiving the inconsistencies in SirCakez's read on us. We can play the semantic game about whether he was "hyper" about pushing my wagon, but SirCakez was. Then, he was objecting to a counterwagon on his town read. He needs rope for that.
You're attempting to copy and mutilate arguments BBT made against your push on us. Bbt caught you using a leading question and you've changed it to a response to a question means someone else cannot use it.
~Mom
Titus, how do you feel about lynching GL Today? I still really dislike your SC push and I wish you would stop with it
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:10 am
by BlueBloodedToffee
↑ɀefiend wrote:
How are you arriving at NH, Firebringer, and BBT all at town-leans given the current dynamics of the game? Namely, BBT has called out NH, and Firebringer seems to think there is one scum in NH/BBT. Also, given that GuiltyLion is a large part of the current focus with these players, where do you lean on him and why?
Why are you proposing that NH/Fire/myself cannot all be town?
↑tojam2 wrote:Looking back that sounds scummy, I'm an Intern by the way, so when one if you PRs dies, I replace you.
This game is just too funny.
Two people voted Tojam after he softed a PR and I need to look up who it was.
Anyone continuing to vote Fire/Tojam are scum claiming.
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:10 am
by BlueBloodedToffee
Kirr and Shadow - I'm not a fan of the posting from either of these slots either.
↑ɀefiend wrote:
How are you arriving at NH, Firebringer, and BBT all at town-leans given the current dynamics of the game? Namely, BBT has called out NH, and Firebringer seems to think there is one scum in NH/BBT. Also, given that GuiltyLion is a large part of the current focus with these players, where do you lean on him and why?
Why are you proposing that NH/Fire/myself cannot all be town?
I'm not. Aristophanes specifically mentioned y'all three as town-leans and I wanted an explanation that accounted for dissenting opinions among you guys. I was pretty satisfied with his answer.
I will try to catch up with everything else after work today, but for now VOTE: Unvote.
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:23 am
by SirCakez
↑Aristophanes wrote:They are stating things clearly, rather than obscuring things. Their arguments make sense. They are pushing it strongly because they both agree. Neither head is faltering in their push which backs this up. 196 especially is an extremely town post, and their push on you is legitimate.
196 is a terrible post. They haven't backed up anything they mentioned in that post and I've called them out on it three times. You sound like you're making up things to town read them for.
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:24 am
by BlueBloodedToffee
You questioned how he arrived at the reads - that leads me to believe you disagree with them because if you thought it was possible then you wouldn't have questioned it.
I could do a GL lynch. He really defended the fuck out of SC questioning that wagon (without pressuring SirCakez) and didn't question those on the toe jam wagon much. Pretty sure Dwlee is too but I am checking with him.
I will likely push SC until he actually does something townie. I would expect town SC to actually be attempting to develop reads. All he's doing is sitting and defending himself and attacking his attackers. I expect town to be consistent in their posting without having to check things out BBT. It's not like we have a mountain of data to go through. We were very very early on. Town shouldn't be inconsistent like that. SC was badly crafting a narrative. Even if we stop voting him, I will want him dead or investigated.
1. I had not noticed tojam's early vote on SirCakez til this post and I went back and re-read. After seeing it and realizing that his next post is hopping from SC to you, I find this wishy-washy and certainly potential posturing against town!SirCakez. It gives me a town-lean on you and SirCakez because tojam's latest post(s?) have not changed my mind that he's scummy. Would you agree with this assessment?
2. What do you think of shaddowez' post 214? Lots of good questions and content. How does this post and other shaddowez actions fit into your posturing investigaton?
3. Since I never actually voted for SirCakez, did my exchange with him give you the impression that I was pushing him? If you have time to read all of it, what is your over-all take-away from both our stances during the exchange and how does my behavior fit into your posturing investigation?
4. This looks like possible shadow-casting. Would you agree? massive has been getting stronger on my scumdar and if SirCakez is town I definitely see the alleged posturing here.
1. I would agree with that assessment completely, but tojam has since outright claimed a PR which means he is probably town UNVOTE:
2. 214 is a very townie-looking post - most of it aligns exactly with how I was reading things. Shaddowez is certainly not the first person I would come after for posturing, but I've also never played with or read from much from him before so I don't have any beat on how capable he is as scum.
3. Your initial exchange with him did give me the impression that you were setting yourself up to move there, particularly "I see things that are worrisome but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say if they want to look like they're scumreading someone but don't want to jump on yet while everyone else is doing their dirty work.
I also didn't understand how your question about the logical train of thought (A therefore B) would uncover anything alignment indicative, and I wanted to see where you took that, but then you dropping the conversation left the exchange overall rather null for me. Can you explain how this lead you to townread SirCakez?
4. Yes, massive is currently in my lynchpool for today
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:19 am
by GuiltyLion
↑tojam2 wrote:I'm anticipating a wagon directed at me; I don't know where that question you are talking about is GL, quote it or give a link please.
I said the reason I voted for you GL was because I agreed with BBT's analysis, so by attacking what I've said is saying I'm not allowed to agree with someone, why so?
This is incredibly frustrating to me now that I think you're town. You're not paying any attention to the game. I have literally quoted it multiple times, it was "who do you think is talking for my lynch" (as of the time you said 'a lot of you want a GL lynch').
Your question is a complete misrepresentation of why I voted you and I'm explaining myself
again
now. I was not voting you for agreeing with BBT, I was voting you for the way you phrased your suspicion of SC.
↑GuiltyLion wrote:Why does it being "less than a day" matter? Is it supposed to take someone a long time to change their mind? This reads to me like someone who is trying to add an extra spin to something to make it sound scummier than it is.
↑GuiltyLion wrote:That's not why I voted you. I voted you because of the way you described your vote on SC - you didn't like his change of heart in 'only less than a day'. Why do you think a quick turnaround is scummy?
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:24 am
by SirCakez
Kirroha still hasn't followed up on her catchup despite posting in multiple other games today. Getting scum vibes there now, feels like she's dodging the game.
I also don't like how massive is still voting Firebringer despite the PR claim.
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:24 am
by GuiltyLion
↑BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Your phrasing was perfectly clear but now you're trying to change it. It's not 'how I'm interpreting it' it's exactly what your words were saying.
The 'as' is key, it implies you at least agree to an extent with what NH are seeing. So it's pretty scummy for you to try and turn this around to say I'm interpreting your posts incorrectly, I think you realised you couldn't respond to my post and as such needed to try and change the original meaning of what you wrote.
This is garbage. I literally explained that I did agree with what NH was seeing in that I also -see- it. I did not agree that it was necessarily scummy, especially not to the degree that NH is saying. We agree on what SirCakez did, we disagreed that it meant he was scum, and NH further polluted the read and drove me away from the wagon with 90 and 106, and making a bunch of arguments that assume SirCakez is scum first to describe his posts second ("he's asking for a bailout, he's faking his reads").
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:28 am
by GuiltyLion
↑Night Hunters wrote:I could do a GL lynch. He really defended the fuck out of SC questioning that wagon (without pressuring SirCakez) and didn't question those on the toe jam wagon much. Pretty sure Dwlee is too but I am checking with him.
why would I question people that are on the wagon that I'm on? It's like you're just trying to invent inconsistencies in my play.
and again, why do you think SC is faking his reads?
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:29 am
by GuiltyLion
VOTE: massive
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:41 am
by kirroha
le sigh. I posted what I could from the first four pages. Will try to catch up but life (college!) is really hectic as of late. If I cannot give this game much commitment even after tomorrow I'll sincerely apologise and replace out.
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:42 am
by kirroha
tojam2 continues to look like scum with a fakeclaim ready.
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:41 pm
by tojam2
So kirroha is probably scum then, any interns please CC now or this wagon Will start rolling VOTE: kirroha
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:43 pm
by tojam2
GL, 'most' is relative to the size of potential wagons so far, leading up to my vote, those were two popular choices.
