Mini 524: Short and Sweet Mafia 2 - Game Over


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:19 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

farside: Did you read what I wrote? I specifically said several times that I DON'T think you are scum with the claimed masons, Porochaz and Samruc. However, you may very well be scum if the masons are telling the truth.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:52 pm

Post by farside22 »

I'm sorry I think I misread something with everyone's comment and saw my name as scum with S&P.
As for being scum partners with Elmo, I'm may be new to this sight, but I'm not dumb. To me the idea of someone following a scum partner is just plain dumb. Scum tend to distance themselves more and try to keep people from figuring out they are together. Hence why I'm not as sure as most about the mason claim, but if this is LyLo it possible to do this to keep you and your scum buddy safe for the vote.
However I still still to the thought that Elmo going after you and then changing his mind is just to weird for words. I don't see him with Satael, but the action between you and him could be consider distancing. You and Elmo both with BooKitty are focusing more on CD. So I can't see you 3 with CD.
Sateal quote
c_d is right that I didn't think to reread him until the masons claimed and narrowed down my scum list. However, a large part of the reason for this is he was laying low and wasn't in the forefront so he was somewhat off my radar. I haven't had time yet, but based on his recent posts, I think he is likely scum with Elmo if the masons are telling the truth. If the masons are both scum, the list of possibilities is certainly longer.
Now that everyone is looking at him did you decide to join the party?
Eh I think you are trying to look town and now just failling miserably.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Bookitty »

@Farside:

I do not feel I've been following Elmo's lead, and I think reading recent posts will bear this out. But I'm curious. You say "As for being scum partners with Elmo, I'm may be new to this sight, but I'm not dumb. To me the idea of someone following a scum partner is just plain dumb. Scum tend to distance themselves more and try to keep people from figuring out they are together."

So why, if you believe that to be true, did you postulate "If not CD then BooKitty with you two since she seems to be following Elmo these days", which is directly contradictory to your statement above about what scum would do?
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:04 pm

Post by Elmo »

Setael: He's genuinely pissed at me and thinks he's about to be lynched for no good reason in 236. The reasons for lynching him are based on intentional behaviour. So, yeah, gut again. (Like I said, I'll feel really silly if he turns out to be scum; but I guess welcome to playing mafia, right?)

I never played mafia before I registered on this site; I don't really have an 'established' playstyle, as such, I'm still getting to grips with the game, really. Mostly, I do pretty much whatever I feel like and it tends to somehow work out okay. I'd say my playstyle has shifted pretty significantly since the start of this game, even. It also seems to heavily vary between games. I sometimes have gut feelings, but I don't think one should follow them to the exclusion of all else. *shrug*

I don't feel like we've got 'hard' evidence on anyone. Quite certainly, if I felt there was something solid to be gained from day 1 or so, I would go point it out. I don't think there is. From my point of view, day 1 was pretty terrible. I don't think there's a solid case to be made against pretty much anyone; the skitzer lynch tells us close to nothing. So, yeah. I don't feel like I have much to go on, but I have to go with what I have, really. Otherwise I'm kinda sitting here waiting for someone else to find the scum for me, which I detest.



I find post 159 very interesting. c_d finds "Bookitty, samruc, and farside, in that order, the most suspicious based on the wagon alone." and votes for farside.

162 interested me, as well. I didn't think much of it at the time, but it felt a little odd that he FoSsed instead of voting. I can't see why he wouldn't want to switch his vote at that point, given he wasn't very suspicious of, um.. anyone? I
can
see that as the "encouraging a lynch while not voting and keeping it at arms length" thing that scum like to do.

As a side note, Samruc's FoS of c_d in 141 feels phony. Hm.
chaotic_diablo wrote:samruc's tunnelvision on Elmo doesn't come off as scummy to me, but his participation on the skitzer lynch with the excuse to "meet a deadline" doesn't sit well with me.
I am very tempted to say this is distancing. He's been kinda wishywashy on everyone, but it's odd that he picks out Samruc from everyone else, especially when a known townie
hammered
mostly due to lack of time.

There is some more stuff I need to read through, but I really need to go to sleep now, so I'll leave it here. But, yeah, I can certainly live with c_d.

From my point of view, Farside's town, Bookitty's town, Yos is town. I'm town. There's three scum, who are therefore in {Setael, c_d, Samruc, Porochaz}. So, for starters, the masons
must
be lying if I'm right about those three being town. Beyond that, I basically agree with Yos's analysis of the possible scumgroups. I can't shake the scummy feeling I get from Setael, but this does make more sense, albeit it's difficult to get much of anything out of c_d. *shrug* I think he's the play for todaaay. Unless something else happens to change my mind five minutes from now, heh.

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vote
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:08 pm

Post by chaotic_diablo »

yos wrote:Two big reasons. The first one was the one I gave earlier; most of your posts all game have been passive, background, and that you've for the most part avoided commenting directly on several major bandwagons, while sometimes quitetly supporting them. For example, when it looked like I was going to be lynched, you never joined the bandwagon on me or even actually attacked me, but several times you sort of implied I was scummy or tried to undermine my defense in somewhat indirect ways. That all feels scummy to me.
I attacked farside at the beginning of day two and followed it up with a vote. I then had an argument with farside to consider whether my reasons was fluff or not. Even though I went for farside, Elmo was clearly trying to get people to look at you. I did and found you worthy of a fos. When you reappeared into the game, you did exactly what Elmo said you did but your entire defense was to OMGUS Elmo and criticise his plays without really proving Elmo false. I found that scummy, but not enough to make a clear switch from farside to you. My vote was on farside the entire time, which in fact is a major bandwagon.
yos wrote:The other one is that there just aren't many likely scum groups that don't include you. A few posts up, I listed the 4 scum groups that seemed most likely to me, and if you notice, you're in 3 of them. The thing is, if I'm right about Bookitty being pro-town, if I'm right that Farside and Porchez are almost certanly scum together group based on the way they've been treating each other, if I'm right that Elmo and Setael are almost certanly not scum together, and assuming that either both claimed masons are scum or neither of them are (which seems a fair assumption to make at this point) that really dosn't leave many possibilties left about who the scum are. And in almost all the possibilities I could come up with, the only one where you're not scum is a Porochaz-Samruc-Setael scumgroup; in the other 3 likely scumgroups, you're a member. So from my point of view, there's about a 3/4 chance you're scum just based on the probable scumgroups. Take that, and combine it with your previous scummy behavior that I've listed, and I think a Chaotic Diablo lynch is more likely to hit scum then any other lynch i could think of, which is why I'm pushing for it in a lynch or lose situation.
The way I see it, you're gambling a great deal on Bookitt's innocence. Setael's logic to rid Bookitty off his list was for metagaming. That isn't a clear protown reason since it deals with nothing with her actions in the current game.
yos wrote:
CD wrote:In terms of who I find the scummiest in order: yos, setael, farside. If I relied on my gut, it's bookitty, elmo, and setael. I'm more convinced of my gut than my logic, but I really want to stick with logic.
Ok. Care to try to explain any of that?

Do you think that either of those are likely to be scum groups?
I already have.
yos wrote:1. Bookitty is probably town.
2. Elmo has defended both Farside and Chaotic Diablo; there might possibly be links there.
3. Elmo and Setael have fought against each other with a really single minded focus that makes me think that they are not scum together. I was also assuming that his recent and continuing attacks on the masons implies that he is not scum with them; Bookitty apparently disagrees with me on that, and if the masons do turn out to be scum I'll take another look at that.
4.
Either both claimed masons are town, or both claimed masons are scum
5.
Like I said earlier, I don't think Farside is scum with Porochez, because of the interactions between the two.
6.
This probably goes without saying, but I know that my own alignment is town, and figured that into my analysis.
1. I'd rather hear an explanation to this.
2. I can definitely see Elmo's defense as possible links. However, that would imply that Elmo is the one at fault, not farside or me. The interaction is one-sided.
3. Elmo voted you despite making an argument on setael. You pointed this out. In addition, Elmo was pushing for a wagon that others have labeled as a non-case and setael was pushing Elmo simply of (IMO)OMGUS reasoning. The likelihood of either of them getting a lynch off of each other is low.
4. I'd have to agree with this. However, I'm still doubtful about the masonry. Most of the information concerning the masonry is coming out of samruc. I'd rather hear more from porochaz about this issue.
5. I'm not quite clea ron this issue yet so I'll reread it and respond later.
6. It probably does. However, I also know my own alignment. This point is moot.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:13 pm

Post by farside22 »

Bookitty wrote:@Farside:

I do not feel I've been following Elmo's lead, and I think reading recent posts will bear this out. But I'm curious. You say "As for being scum partners with Elmo, I'm may be new to this sight, but I'm not dumb. To me the idea of someone following a scum partner is just plain dumb. Scum tend to distance themselves more and try to keep people from figuring out they are together."

So why, if you believe that to be true, did you postulate "If not CD then BooKitty with you two since she seems to be following Elmo these days", which is directly contradictory to your statement above about what scum would do?
Elmo has been defending me where as you are just seem to be following his lead. It more a stelth aproach then actually noticeable. No one has said anything bad about you so either they are right or you've covered yourself well for the long run.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:18 pm

Post by chaotic_diablo »

elmo wrote:I find post 159 very interesting. c_d finds "Bookitty, samruc, and farside, in that order, the most suspicious based on the wagon alone." and votes for farside.

162 interested me, as well. I didn't think much of it at the time, but it felt a little odd that he FoSsed instead of voting. I can't see why he wouldn't want to switch his vote at that point, given he wasn't very suspicious of, um.. anyone? I can see that as the "encouraging a lynch while not voting and keeping it at arms length" thing that scum like to do.
Now you're just trying to hop the wagon as well. You find those psots interesting and odd yet don't explain why. In addition, most of those points were discussed with farside.
Elmo wrote:I am very tempted to say this is distancing. He's been kinda wishywashy on everyone, but it's odd that he picks out Samruc from everyone else, especially when a known townie hammered mostly due to lack of time.
Odd that I picked out samruc? I also picked out Bookitty who made it on the list right next to samruc.
CD wrote:Bookitty hops back on:

Again, lynching for the sake of lynching
If Ether hammered and turned up scum, then that gives no indication on whether those players are scum as well. You make a null point.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:35 pm

Post by Bookitty »

farside22 wrote:Elmo has been defending me where as you are just seem to be following his lead. It more a stelth aproach then actually noticeable. No one has said anything bad about you so either they are right or you've covered yourself well for the long run.
Actually, I unvoted Yosarian before him. I questioned Chaotic_Diablo early on, and I voted him before Elmo did. He's second on my list of suspicions, though these last few posts are making me wonder about putting you in a distant third place.

Where are you getting the impression I'm "following his lead"? The facts seem to indicate otherwise.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:46 pm

Post by farside22 »

Bookitty wrote:All right, in the interest of giving you the chance to contribute your views:

unvote


Yosarian, I made a case on Farside. You said you liked it. What did you think was most scummy of the actions I listed on her part? I also asked you who your top scum suspects are. Elmo does not a scumlist make, so I'd still like to hear your own views/cases on Farside and Porochaz.

What are your thoughts on chaotic_diablo?

I am leaning toward you because you are clearly unhappy with Elmo and tunnelling on him to some extent (and I'm not sure what he's doing here, either, but I don't really see making a non-case on someone and then testing reactions as scummy, nor Setael's response to it either) and you're not doing analysis as I think people normally do when they've accidentally overlooked a game for a while. Do you think Samruc is pro-town? How about myself? If Elmo is lynched and turns up town, who would you suspect then? Why? If Elmo is town, is Setael scum then, in your view?

Do you see a link between Farside, Porochaz and Elmo? Do you think we likely have a serial killer, or something else?

And Elmo, if Yosarian is lynched and turns up town, who is your next most likely suspect?

You unvoted after Elmo put a case against Yos2. I found it odd that you were unvoting him after all that was said.

Bookitty wrote:Samruc, considering we may be in LYLO (something you yourself agreed with) do you really want to encourage people to lynch someone they're not certain about?

You haven't weighed in on much of the recent discussion, so your pushing for Yosarian's lynch at this point doesn't look very good. We're not short on posts, now, but on time, so why aren't you commenting on Porochaz's recent statements, and on his omission of you and me?

I'm more certain Porochaz is scum than Yosarian. I don't feel we can afford to make a mistake right now. If you don't see the problems with his recent posts, then please, explain to me how they aren't scummy, make a defense, or make a case against Yosarian based on his recent responses... yelling at people for changing their mind when you're doing absolutely nothing to change their mind is not helpful to town.
I didn't see were you go from Porochaz as scummie then Yos2.

Bookitty wrote:
Can you please post the claim you copied and saved for later, Porochaz? Sooner would be better. Thank you.

Elmo, what do you think of the case I made against Farside? Do you still regard Setael as likely scum? (I've played with her as both alignments, for the record.) How about Yosarian?
You are back to talking to Elmo asking his opinion about me, setael, and Yos2.

Bookitty wrote:Okay, in the interest of moving this along, here's my take on things.

My vote is going to go to Chaotic_Diablo, partly because of his most recent post, partly because of earlier things. I'll explain both now.

I don't feel Chaotic_Diablo has been following the game much at all. His most recent post, accusing Porochaz about his claim (a claim I requested, and that Porochaz said he'd written before Samruc's claim) is a perfect case in point. Someone who was actively looking for scum would have read the recent posts more carefully, in my view, when we are possibly at LYLO. So that's a big strike against him.
Now Elmo just made a case on CD and here you are starting to follow his lead. Although Elmo didn't vote you decided to go along with the case too.

Either Elmo followed you with Yos2 vote and or you followed him with the CD vote. It is more sutle type of following that isn't noticeable. It's possible you both decided to try and buss' when people were asking about Yos2 and then you decided to not do it and see if you can vote off someone else. That is when you focused on Porochaz and then Elmo followed along with that vote. It seems like a bit of odd interplay between the two of you.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:28 pm

Post by Porochaz »

ok, what do you want to hear from me? Beyond me supporting Samruc and what I initially wrote, theres nothing much else. I played badly, made it blindingly obvious that there was a connection between us. Thats it. Nothing more.

We need to get this lynch out of the way NOW! We are way past deadline and I cant see us getting this game done within the timelimit. I personally think we should all vote for the player who you think is
scummiest
we see the votes and if we havent come to a concencus then we see each of us can stretch too. Sounds obvious but were fannying around here and we need to do something. Can you either confirm your vote or change it if you need to and possibly copy/paste the people who have confirmed there vote...

confirm vote Farside


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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:48 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

chaotic_diablo wrote: The way I see it, you're gambling a great deal on Bookitt's innocence. Setael's logic to rid Bookitty off his list was for metagaming. That isn't a clear protown reason since it deals with nothing with her actions in the current game.
Well, Bookitty in general feels pro-town to me; most of her posts just have the feel of good pro-town reasoning to them.

The biggest reason is the way she unvoted me when I was at lynch -1 and it appeared likely I might be killed any second; if it really is lynch or lose, I just can not see a scum doing something like that, I would think it much more likely for a scum in that situation to hang back for a while and see if someone hammers me instead of jumping right in and unvoting me there.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:50 am

Post by Samruc »

I agree with Yos, that's as good as it gets... Bookitty is definitely out for today's lynch.

Porochaz, if you'd give us the first word of each ritual we have gone through, that might help to clear things up.

***

I realise that I might be wrong, and that we could lose, but lynching C_D isn't worse than any other lynch. I could see {C_D, farside, Setael} as a team. If not, I can just hope one of the scum chose to bus...

unvote, vote: C_D


Vote Count:
C_D: Yos, Bookitty, Elmo, Samruc
Setael: farside
farside: Porochaz
Elmo: Setael

Not voting: C_D

It's L-1, I think it's hammertime.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:37 am

Post by Porochaz »

Samruc wrote: Porochaz, if you'd give us the first word of each ritual we have gone through, that might help to clear things up.
I don't understand. Please can you explain more clearly, Im a bit idiotic when it comes to these things.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:24 am

Post by Samruc »

Samruc wrote:The pm mentions three rituals that I and Porochaz have gone through to become twins.
Third sentence of the pm.

(By the way, saying that it will "clear things up" maybe wasn't the correct words, but it will do something to even out the amount of claiming from you and me.)
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:51 am

Post by Porochaz »

Oh ok I wouldn't of called them rituals... I probably would of called them "process's of life" or something vaguely scientific like that... first wrds of the 3, born, raised and bonded... I don't really know how that helps anyone determine anything though?
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:08 am

Post by Setael »

Yos wrote:Two big reasons. The first one was the one I gave earlier; most of your posts all game have been passive, background, and that you've for the most part avoided commenting directly on several major bandwagons, while sometimes quitetly supporting them. For example, when it looked like I was going to be lynched, you never joined the bandwagon on me or even actually attacked me, but several times you sort of implied I was scummy or tried to undermine my defense in somewhat indirect ways. That all feels scummy to me.

The other one is that there just aren't many likely scum groups that don't include you.
QFT.

I think Samruc and Porochaz are masons. Considering whoever kills by way of "nasty little scratches" could be a vig, I can't see scum daring to pull this when if one of them is vigged they're both revealed. Even if it's an SK that has been making the kills, they could still target one of them and they'd both be outed. So I believe their claims, and as has already been stated several times, if they're both masons the possibilities for a mafia group are slim and all include c_d.

I would hammer now but I'd like to hear a claim from c_d.

Also, has anyone seen the mod?
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:46 am

Post by Samruc »

Claiming is overrated.

That was a joke.


***

Ibby's last post seems to be from Dec 31. I'll go prod her just to be safe.

***
Porochaz wrote:I don't really know how that helps anyone determine anything though?
Actually it was C_D who thought you should provide some part of the claim. Anyway...
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:13 am

Post by chaotic_diablo »

I'm the vig. I vigged Ether Night One. I know for a fact that I'm town and not affiliated with anyone. Considering that it's possibly LYLO, if town lynches me now, then town loses. A quick lynch from scum would also bring up the same result. In otherwords, if we have three scum, then all three of them are on my wagon.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:15 am

Post by Samruc »

Unvote
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:17 am

Post by Bookitty »

@Chaotic_Diablo: Did you also kill Antithesis? Why did you kill Ether?
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:21 am

Post by Samruc »

Need moar flavor.

(Or rather, any flavor at all...)
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:23 am

Post by farside22 »

Samruc wrote:Claiming is overrated.

That was a joke.


***

Ibby's last post seems to be from Dec 31. I'll go prod her just to be safe.

***
Porochaz wrote:I don't really know how that helps anyone determine anything though?
Actually it was C_D who thought you should provide some part of the claim. Anyway...
Now I'm glad I waited to see if CD claimed. I know the game is at a deadline, but pushing for a quick lynch is plain scummie. I now am certain that you and Porochaz lied and just wanted to save your happy butts from a lynch.
I see if anyone disputes CD's claim, but I highly doubt anyone will.
By the way I PM'ed the mod 2 day's ago and she hasn't picked up.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Yosarian2
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(shrug)
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:18 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

All right, I'll
unvote
for the moment, but I definatly agree with those who say we need to hear more. IE: what exactally his actions have been, what his role name and flavor is, ect.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Samruc
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:26 am

Post by Samruc »

Chaotic's claim is funny.

He knows for a fact that he's town. That is good, because then he knows that he should try to kill scum. If he didn't know for a fact that he was town, he would have to guess.
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:34 am

Post by chaotic_diablo »

I'm a Moon spider or something like that. I'm only able to kill the night after a day kill has occured. It's something about the cycle of the Sun and Moon and how one comes after the other and blah blah blah. I also have another condition in which I can kill during the night, but I'm going to keep it to myself.

I killed Ether solely because I wanted to check the wagon on skitzer and Ether rushed it. I'm not responsible for Antithesis's death. The kill method is the same, but I gurantee you that the killers were different.
"Miracles of Science" or "Freaks of Nature"?

Carp Logic. I'm so totally using that at some point.~ Mr. Flay
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