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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2004 6:46 am

Post by FrogGurl »

Hmm. Dr. Scott is an outside human, known to dislike Frank n furter a good bit, at least how I remember the play/movie. Then again Janet was a human and she was good. But she kind of got to like the other people.

I'm going to keep my vote where it is.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2004 7:40 am

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Yup, vote stays.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2004 8:01 am

Post by willows_weep »

It was not "quick following of Dragon Phoenix".


But here are some things first:
Dr. Everett Scott: So you are not the doctor( because you have neither said you are nor does your summary of your "pm" imply it)( I say that only because I think someone was wondering if everett would have been the doc)

You are looking for Eddie: So that may mean Eddie is in the game.
(I will think later on that character)
But no one knows that. I say may because someone could claim Eddie later on to appear town. That is if you are not confirmed.I mean we wont know if Eddie is here or the alignment and ability unless the game ended and the mod gave a copy of the pms or that character died, or someone claims it and can be confirmed.

Now looking at that: Did you ask about what would happen if you found Eddie? Or does the "pm" exactly say "you dont know what will happen"(well not exactly ).
Or something else?
And with willows_weep's quick following of Dragon Phoenix, I am starting to believe we have the rest of the mafia here. They partnered too quickly, and with willows_weep's out-of-character quick vote, it just makes more sense
...It does?

Thats all for now.
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2004 3:54 pm

Post by Tam »

Hmmm...I would like to hear more from Fishbulb. Also to apologise to him, I was a total wreck today and shouldn't have been left near the computer. :?

I think Fishbulb may have a valid claim. I mean it sounds perfectly pheasible, in character and all.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2004 4:39 pm

Post by NanookTheWolf »

Ok, I can go for that Tam seeing how I don't really play games with you and it may just be confusion in the game, which I can relate to with Willows.
Unvote:Tam


I'm not sure what to think at the moment with Fishbulb, He doesn't seem that scummy to me, but you never know. Unless someone can counter Fishbulb, then I suppose I can take him as innocent...
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2004 9:38 pm

Post by Carmine »

Unvote: Tam
. Okay, that'll convince me for the moment.

As to Fishbulb... I think his role-claim is pretty convincing, although obviously (like everyone else) I'm pretty confused as to who the mafia characters actually are (although I don't think any discussions we've had on the subject have gotten us anywhere so far).

So, I think I'm going to
Vote: Willows_Weep
. I agree that it's strange that, having asked for clarification on the Fishbulb vote, she voted straight after Dragon Phoenix without receiving the clarification she'd asked for (and without giving a reason of her own). Plus, she's been confusing me all game. :)
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 2:11 am

Post by Tam »

I have been wondering about willows_weep as well. She does act a little suspicious, but the thing is that I've played with her before and the confusion seems pretty normal...but it does seem a bit worse this time (enough to make me trying to figure it out look like i'm only adding to confusion, and enough for me to still not really get what she meant for a lot of it) Then again, how do you gauge 'a bit worse' based on one other game?

Anyhow, fishbulb i still want to hear from, and I'm not ready to vote for willows_weep quite yet anyhow.

I think a good point has been drawn though. He may very well have that role but still be evil. Do you really have no clue what it is that you'll do once you find Eddie? What exactly (without quoting) does your win condition say?
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 2:20 am

Post by willows_weep »

I did give a reason no?
I wanted a response. I didn't want a claim but thats what I ended up with and it gave me enough information to comment the way I did.

Sure it's possible Fishbulb is Scott. I don't think he is not Dr. Everett Scott. And I doubt anyone can counterclaim that. It's just that what I know so far I can conclude that Fishbulb is not pro-town.
The claim actually helped my suspicions more because of who he is. And with thinking of different plots/special areas in the show and what has been in the thread so far I have narrowed down to 2 possible scummies (Aside from Fishbulb). This makes me so happy...or rather I am so happy because of it.

I needed more information which is why I wanted DP to explain further because DPs post was interesting. So when that didn't help too much I decided to take action into my own hands. Hence the vote. And now look at the thread. Is that not progress?
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 2:25 am

Post by Tam »

I've been thinking. I still can't get why Brad's blurb said he was Transylvanian Mafia. It just seems like overkill, unless there are two groups. But I can't really see that many baddies..

It's clear (if we believe Janet) that he started out a baddie already (the info that he'd wandered off was in her role pm, not a night results pm) and so maybe the mod randomly chose characters for the baddies here.

Though I think it most likely that Magenta and Riff Raff are the Transylvanian Mafia, and the mod needed a 3rd member, so made up the scenario of him wandering off and being drawn in. (He was the most vulnerable character in the movie, Janet was much stronger than he was.)

Anyhow, just speculation, it's just one of those things that keeps nagging at me. Why would the mod distinguish it like that?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just saw WW's post, and I'd like you to clarify please. You have info that means that Fishbulb is
definitely
anti-town? Or you just think he is, based on info you have?
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 3:30 am

Post by Carmine »

If the mafia is the "Transylvanian" mafia, it would imply that Dr. Scott wouldn't be a part of it, given his role in the film, I would have thought.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 3:33 am

Post by Fishbulb »

Tam wrote:Though I think it most likely that Magenta and Riff Raff are the Transylvanian Mafia, and the mod needed a 3rd member, so made up the scenario of him wandering off and being drawn in. (He was the most vulnerable character in the movie, Janet was much stronger than he was.)
This is exactly my thoughts on it. While it seems we can't rely solely on the movie, who else would be perfect for the mafia but Riff Raff and Magenta? The Brad thing is confusing to me, but like you said, there needed to be a third. So, those of you who are still voting for me, who do
you
propose is the mafia crew? This would be interesting, and helpful to the town after I am lynched.
Tam wrote:Also to apologise to him, I was a total wreck today and shouldn't have been left near the computer.
No problem. Except that was why you voted for me and yet it is still there...
Tam wrote:Do you really have no clue what it is that you'll do once you find Eddie? What exactly (without quoting) does your win condition say?
No, I don't know. It just states that I am trying to find him. And as far as I can tell, that is my "win condition". A few speculations I have come up with over the days: He was turned evil and when I find him I need to get rid of those who turned him evil. If not evil then I might form a mason group with him. Maybe if I find Columbia I discover he is dead and join with her. Again, all crazy speculations from what I can gather from the game and movie (been a few years since I last watched it, though). Basically, all I can tell you from the PM is that there is more information left to be given to me. At this point, I am not trying to kill anyone, and I do not want to be killed myself, so I need to get rid of the killers.
willows_weep wrote:And with thinking of different plots/special areas in the show and what has been in the thread so far I have narrowed down to 2 possible scummies (Aside from Fishbulb).
Goody for you. Care to share with the rest of the group?
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 4:07 am

Post by willows_weep »

Based on personal deductions and things from mod and players and things that have happened.
And it does work. I would not have expected this set up and I don't see why it would be but when I asked Popsiclestix to distinguish whether it was a night thing or a initial pm thing tells me that brad started out as mafia.
Now that I am concluding that Fishbulb is mafia. That would make it brad and scott.
And janet is excused. And that gives me two other possible tags for mafia. And one is more likely than the other, but I wont rule it out.


So just to put these out there:
I am throwing out the parts where mafia would be just trans or just not trans.
That would make it supposedly one group.
Ruling out possibility of two anti town groups.
Thinking about what characters are stronger than the others.
Which plays what kind of role and is it passive or aggressive.

That is a bit of the summary for what/how I am thinking.


btw this post would have been before fishbulbs last post but the site kept going to error. Oh and I just note Carmens post.

Wait...what? Why would you find columbia? Im thinking if a player is looking for a specific character then they would just hop around till then, but while looking for Eddie you're thinking you....hm well you are just speculating but....
Hm I will add more thoughts to that later...

Oh for scummies its characters not players. So I am meaning "aside from fishbulb/scott).
And for characters Im thinking riff raff and magenta.
Somewhere in these threads we/i... was talking about the end morality scene.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 5:06 am

Post by Carmine »

... I can't understand what you're posting. You're throwing out the idea of a transylvanian mafia, even though that's what the mod said Brad was in? You think that Fishbulb is Doctor Scott, but that he's also mafia, but that there are two extra mafia as well in Riff Raff and Magenta?

Why wouldn't Dr. Scott find Columbia in his hunt? After all, Eddie's dead by the time he gets to the mansion in the film, and Columbia is ravingly upset about it. This could work with a sort of "You find that <x> isn't Eddie, but she tells you that Eddie is dead! You decide to team up and talk out your grief at night." or somesuch :P

Basically, you talk as if you're just throwing out suspicions and thinking out loud, but then use phrasing that makes you seem like you're very certain of something :P
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 5:57 am

Post by willows_weep »

I am doing lots of things at once. Which I suppose is the cause of confusion, but honestly I cannot not settle down...well actually I will go make a thread about that so when Im in themed games I can be more focused on one thing at a time.

This is what that post does btw:
Thinking outloud while pointing out things that I need to think about, and noting things I am certain of.

The somesuch you just gave isn't how I would have thought it worked.
My experience with roles that are searching did not include getting suches like that.
Pretty much " You have not yet found so and so"
I figure saying anything else would lead to being able to get information about other characters by default. Interesting though...the mason thing.

No not that there ARE two others. Just that those two characters based on how things look would be prime suspects (my thinking). There could be less or more naturally.

Im throwing out there being an all human and all non human sort of thing. How would it work if there were both? I know the numbers don't have to be the same each side but...I am not seeing how that would work based on characterizations of the characters.

Any thoughts on Rocky?
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 6:27 am

Post by FrogGurl »

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to think. But for the moment, without a better idea of who's scummier, I'm keeping it where it is.

Mod: Can we get a vote count please?

WW, do you have any other knowledge of Fishbulb's possible scumminess other than speculations about what movie rolls could be scum?

And yeah, I don't doubt that Fishbulb is Scott. This game comes across as being one in which role claiming character names doesn't give a huge flag to innocent or guilty.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 11:34 am

Post by willows_weep »

First off I believe that either the game doctor targetted Fishbulb last night and/or Fishbulb has some sort of night protection/immunity.
Why?
Because I can choose to kill someone. I chose Fishbulb last night because :
-The manner of how Fishbulb posts (Vibacious!) (Create new word) ( Done!)
-Keeps reiterating me, just in a different way (sometimes) (Am I just being petty?) (Nah)
-Note1-Post is pretty much a summary of what I have said through the game.(Still not)
-Is nice seeming though-Perhaps personality quality or cover up.(Or both??)
-Reminds me of newbie game (that was bothersome)
-Never answered my question of mafia doc (?) (Is that important to me as vig or not and why)
-Is this reason enough to use power? ( Hells yeah!)

Since I knew that there were a couple of possibilities as to why I could not kill Fishbulb I went and sought more information.
So that is now the full reason for why I asked DP about his reasoning. And why I needed more information.
When I got more information I ruled out a lot of the possibilities I could come up with and was left with doctor or possible godfather (ask someone about variants)(don't forget!)


Processes:
-Janet is dead and town
-Brad is dead and anti-town
-Eddie may be out there
-Scott may be out there
-Lips...is dead and town
Can't be a human only mafia, can't be a trans only mafia. (Do you know of any other human roles?) Recruiting does not fit anywhere either.
(What is up with mod wording?)( Consider full cast list perhaps?) (What is the point of this game?)( What is the point of the movie as well?)

Thread issues:
-DP has issues with Fishbulb right after night ( Coincidence?) ( Who is DP)( Who is FrogGurl)
-DP believes strongly (Interesting...)
-Fishbulb says we're both mafia (That would be saying we are a mafia tag team. One following directly after the other.) ( I can understand not giving me the benifit of doubt there but why would Fishbulb accuse DP of doing something that even I think is not a bright thing to do?) (Ou est l'amour?)
-Brings the usual obvious mafia tactics up ( blah)
-FrogGurl (Interesting)
-Fishbulb brings up "style" issues etc (looking for footholds-back to tagteam) (grrrr next person...)
-After saying we're both mafia unvotes one to vote the other (que)
-Other players (La ou sont ils?)
-AHHH everyone is confused (Go write poetry to speak of the pain, la agonie!)
-Remember to refresh page a lot when you're taking forever with a post. You tend to miss posts c'est genant...


Points
Fishbulb gave claim- Does not mention role ability to be automatically saved. Rules out protected town role.
-Is Scott but is not a game doctor. So could have been targetted by doctor. (Why would doctor target fishbulb?)
-Somewhere Fishbulb said didnt think Scott was a doctor traditional sense so not doc here. Also asked who was the doc.
-Think back about the morality issue we brought up earlier. Brad is mafia. Not recruited. If conclusion is right then Scott is mafia. Not recruited.
-Recruiting idea tossed out awhile ago. Idea fostered by Fishbulb?(Find out when and who is still interested)
-Who would work with Scott and Brad? (Find what characters would be linked to both and why. Test out morals)
-Why
-Figure out mod wording
-What is this WIN condition with Eddie-If a role has a win condition that is not with the town then is it not the best interest of the town to remove said role?
-What is this "speculation" with Columbia. Why would she help Scott in anyway? (Check out scenes with the two, does it suggest the possibility ?)
-There is nothing in the movie to suggest Scotts innocence. (Definately check out that scene and posts where you talk about scenes.)

So that is pretty much almost exactly what I have down since last "night" and from "today" for this. Copied and pasted not in the order because Fishbulb isn't the only topic.
And that is how/why/what Im basing everything on.
I agree that at first it seems shakey evidence but thats why I went for getting information. There was no way to get such information if I did not vote.
Thats why discussion is cool if your thinking and feeling stuff.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 11:53 am

Post by willows_weep »

Uhm, Well as I see it by looking through the thread and remembering rules ...
Fishbulb has 3 votes one each from Dragon Phoenix, W_W, and Tam
Dragon Phoenix has 1 from Fishbulb
And willows_weep has 1 from Carmine
I think and so since there is still 9 Im supposing its still 5 to lynch because the mod didn't say or do different last time of offical majority number display.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 2:45 pm

Post by Tam »

Fishbulb wrote:
Tam wrote:Also to apologise to him, I was a total wreck today and shouldn't have been left near the computer.
No problem. Except that was why you voted for me and yet it is still there...
Actually, I voted you for because I was very interested in hearing more info on your role mechanics. It's extremely hard to tell if you are good or bad. I don't doubt you are hunting Eddie, but is it to kill him? ;)

It's just very hard to tell. At any rate, you seem to have told us everything you know, and for the moment I guess I believe you.

Unvote Fishbulb

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
willows_weep wrote: lots of stuff
:shock:

You know, I can't understand most of that, but...the bits I do (think) I understand are mostly your opinions and you making up rules then using them as facts...unless I'm reading it wrong? :roll: It appears that halfway through you just entered the idea that Brad and Scott are both mafia
willows_weep wrote:-Think back about the morality issue we brought up earlier. Brad is mafia. Not recruited. If conclusion is right then Scott is mafia. Not recruited.
then went from then on like it was fact...
willows_weep wrote:-Recruiting idea tossed out awhile ago. Idea fostered by Fishbulb?(Find out when and who is still interested)
-Who would work with Scott and Brad? (Find what characters would be linked to both and why. Test out morals)
Ummm..he's still alive, we don't know if he's bad yet...in fact, I think I believe him.

I'd vote you right now if it weren't for you (I think) claiming vig. I will try and look at your post a bit closer later. Right now I'm just too confused. :?
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Fri May 14, 2004 3:02 pm

Post by willows_weep »

Oh those are conditionals. And since that's like raw notes mostly then since I already know its based on a condition I forgot that you all might forget.

Why would you vote me?

Yes I am.

Hey...where did you get the lots of stuff quote from?

...I thought it would be easier if I just gave all my reasons to the town ...not harder...at least its better arranged than usual right ??
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2004 9:50 pm

Post by jeep »

I'll post a vote count tomorrow. C'mon folks.

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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Sun May 16, 2004 2:00 pm

Post by Tam »

The 'lots of stuff' thing was me paraphrasing. Sorry, I meant to make it <lots of stuff> but forgot.

I, for one, am still waiting to hear from WW about the little things we've pointed out.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Sun May 16, 2004 2:36 pm

Post by NanookTheWolf »

Ok Willows Weep, I am going to have to say this. You know I don't think so many people would be confused by your posts if they were not so loooong. Long posts in general suck, because of the fact that they take a while to read, yours are even harder because you take forever to get to the point and half the time I don't think there is a point. My suggestion is just get the main thoughts out and not every little detail, no one wants to sit in front of the computer a read a post that takes like 5 minutes all the time.

I agree with this vote count thing as well mod.

Willow I am so determined to vote you, because you are so active in this game. I understand that that is how you were in I think Sword of Truth as well, but still. You take a 3 or 4 sentenced post and suddenly make like 5 paragraphs of your own. I am tired of hearing just from you and would like from some of the others as well, because all your posts do to me is mess with my head and I don't like it, so
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Sun May 16, 2004 6:29 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

FOS Nanook


Trying to get rid of one of the few players who takes the effort to think and post (granted a bit exuberantly) is not exactly town-friendly behaviour. If you don't like the posts, ignore them.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Sun May 16, 2004 7:26 pm

Post by jeep »

I agree with this vote count thing as well mod.
If this is a suggestion or question, it will be easier for me if you post in the form.

mod:
<QUESTION>

I'm sorry I haven't given this game the attention it needs, but it's my daughter's birthday... as I said, tomorrow will have a vote count.

-JEEP
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2004 2:11 am

Post by Fishbulb »

Ugh. I'm not sure it is even possible to respond to that post willows_weep made. The majority made little-to-no sense, and since what did make sense was either utterly false or actually helping my case, it's likely I didn't understand any of that either.

Here's my problem. I see two players here and I am almost positive one of them is scum. They both make ridiculous accusations (Dragon Phoenix by not making any, and willows_weep by rambling on nonsensically). Also, neither will look at the big picture here; too busy hammering me into the ground to realize that *gasp* they might be wrong. Anyone working for the town would rather everyone keep an open mind and to think on their own than to have this push for a sheep mentality so everyone looks guilty in the end. It's such an obvious scum set-up, that therein lies the dilemma.

I doubt they are
both
scum. I can't imagine them setting themselves up so quickly. Tomorrow, when the town turns on one of them, the other will be set up for a quick fall. It just doesn't seem like a smart move for scum.
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