Death Curse

[Fidget]

I like Bell's tone, but pointing that out ruins the Noraa coaching/bussing joke so I'll shelve that for later.

Taylor - town for realizing that this isn't AI due to previous experience playing with me
Murder - null bc he didn't realize it wasn't AI even tho he has played with me before but the paranoia towards shelly is very town bc when playing with shelly, it is nerve-racking trying to determine if you're being absolutely fooled or if you are judging too much and she's actually town. I feel this paranoia all the way after one scum game with her where she told me about all her evil plans in the scum pt and after one town game where I was fooled by her big time. Something that town pings + something that scum pings cancel out and so I am null but prolly town lean still.
Pooky - town because I believe he believes in his SR on me and scum wouldn't bc scum knows who their scum buddies are.
Lexi - null. I still dislike the discord argument. Lexi's been more eager to push me than Pooky has which tbh is a bit strange considering normally the one that starts it is the biggest on pushing it :/
Isis - town because the tone is towny and I relate to some of those posts in that I would say something similar in her position
Bell - townie confusion. could be faked but I'm willing to believe it is real for now
Shelly - scum for misrepping people and also for throwing shade at pooky yet never voting pooky.
Vaultdweller - scum. can't quite put my finger on what's wrong here but I'm def getting scum pings.
Hopkirk - null but lean scum. dislike the jumping on all biggest wagons for no reason.

You

really

don't want to die, do you?

[Fidget]

Taylor plays exactly like this as town. Hold up let me go find the link.

I think Taylor has gotten more confident and comfortable with doing whatever since this game but regardless, you can still see it in here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Gonna preemptively say Tayl0r's town for this. I have no idea what Noraa is pointing out that she is pretending makes her so sure but whatevers.

[Fidget]

im super duper concerned at the number of people who have decided to push noraa as scum this early, and dont trust them either.

I entertained this for a whole 15 seconds, and then I saw Noraa suddenly go into mega defensive/tryhard mode.

yeah im pretty sure ive seen town noraa react exactly this way. i dont townread noraa, but i dont think this is helpful in sorting noraa and i think itll be reasonably easy to sort noraa later.

Serious bummer if true.

I was wondering how long it would take you to flip your "null, hmmm I dunno if LLD, is she scum? hmmmmmmmm" into trying to oppose me like this.

This was the sentence I was referring to when I said you were being defensive. Perhaps defensive isnt the right word. I think you are actively discrediting what I say.

Okay, time to bury you. Here is where you made your mistake, calling this "discrediting". (Another buzzword, btw.)

One second.

Noraa butchers buzzwords pretty much consistently, as does shelly.

I still find the walls of text and flailing scummy. Unfortunately there is a chance Noraa does that as town. I have not seen Noraa do the thing I associate with her town play yet, though.

[Fidget]

So, here we go.

Evidence of Noraa's hemming and hawing on me.

Calling me Null but constantly looking for a way to scumread me that can be deemed as valid, because she's afraid to fabricate a reason and have it be torn down, in my opinion.

But even if you think that assessment of her behaviour is wrong, her behaviour is clear as day.

Here is the evidence.

this stuff is NOT AI for noraa.

If I were scum opposing a town!Noraa, I'd probably just take my choice at the infinite ways she can be attacked and go from there. However since I'm not, I have to acknowledge you're right, this is very much how Noraa plays. I get your concern better.

The huge reads list after coming pressure and the huge volume of her posts after the pressure still comes across as really scummy to me.

[Fidget]

Theres a thing called luck. Luck played in big time that game. My partner accidentally nokilled and that ultimately lead to our victory. Without that along with another player's lurking due to rl, you really think I could've won that game?

Noraa not taking credit for a win looks bad to me

Agree. It feels made up to support her "I'm just a imcompetent newbtown" argument.

You can probably townbloc Murdercat, Lamb, Pooky at this point. I trust whoever it was knows Murdercat well enough to locktown him, and I agree with his posts. My spicy read is Bell!town actually. Call it gut for now but you'll see.

Tayl0r, I do actually get her concerns. However, I did not like her "It would be stupid of me to defend Noraa as scum here" post. I think she probably would.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fidget is town, let's go.

And yeah, I've played with MurderCat once or twice before. They feel town here. Let's be honest, nothing I say should be taken with 100 percent, but we should be willing to operate on principles of "this is definitely town" for the first few cycles at least.

Like I'm pretty comfortable in Fidget, Pooky, and MurderCat as town. There's a few others I also think are town.

[Noraa]

Fidget is town, let's go.

And yeah, I've played with MurderCat once or twice before. They feel town here. Let's be honest, nothing I say should be taken with 100 percent, but we should be willing to operate on principles of "this is definitely town" for the first few cycles at least.

Like I'm pretty comfortable in Fidget, Pooky, and MurderCat as town. There's a few others I also think are town.

you think everyone that agrees with the Noraa wagon is town. we already gathered that don't worry.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fidget is town, let's go.

And yeah, I've played with MurderCat once or twice before. They feel town here. Let's be honest, nothing I say should be taken with 100 percent, but we should be willing to operate on principles of "this is definitely town" for the first few cycles at least.

Like I'm pretty comfortable in Fidget, Pooky, and MurderCat as town. There's a few others I also think are town.

you think everyone that agrees with the Noraa wagon is town. we already gathered that don't worry.

This feels like a gross simplification. I actually think Fidget is town because of their hesitance and acquiescence to some of the counter arguments.

The fact that they objectively found some merit in the defenses put up makes me think they genuinely considered them, and the fact they landed on the side of "I see the problems with Noraa" despite this, makes me think they understand the gamestate and are mindmelding a bit with me.

It's not buddying if the dude literally says "actually I think Taylor Swift's arguments have validity" which is not something I believe and does detract from my pressure on Taylor. We hold different opinions, and that's kind of why they're town.

The intent, action and manner in which they approached all of this REEKS town.

But you want to simplify it to what you've said above? Seems thin.

[Noraa]

We hold different opinions, and that's kind of why they're town.

this just all sounds like a free town pass. I don't really see any good reasons and the fact that fidget agrees with you seems like the real reason you TR them.

[Zdenek]

I've read up to page 6, and skimmed the more recent stuff.

Unvote

Consider my vote on Noraa.

quote="In post 63, MURDERCAT"]Ok I still haven't read but I have a question that I want answered by the time I do, should we change how we lim? Like if there is someone who people townlean but we know they have a strong scum game are we more likely to vote them in this setup?[/quote]
Can I ask what led you to this? I'm curious because it came up in the thread and it makes me question whether you've read or not.

I'm inclined to agree that Noraa's town-slip looks faked, and the meta argument for why it is scummy seems good to me.

You can influence whatever you please, but forcing people to pick from the top of a point list only guarantees the scum know EXACTLY what they need to do to win.

Of course it would be impossible to force a cursed player to pass the scroll to anyone in particular, but hey ho, I still think that my points plan would be excellent, but also not interested in pushing for it further.

He said he was gonna spectate this game and that I was in it already. I was at the time, not even aware of this games existence.

This seems like it can't be true.

[Flea The Magician]

Jeeze you folk get busy.
UNVOTE:

The Lady needs to detangle her drawers methinks, that was some serious momentum buildup.

So, keeping it brief, it's past midnight and the discord conversations posts don't sit well with me, and neither does the list of reads this early into D1. Giving someone townpoints for meta'ing seems funky to me, like "oh! we played before! you know when I'm town!", followed by the emotional null read [how dare you use the discord against me! I will not read you now! - is how that looks to me] combined with "Oh woe is me, I'm always the wagon of choice!"...

More I read, more I dislike. Acting defensively to EVERYTHING including things which aren't aimed at her , then defending taylor from Lady's frankly freaking impressive presence at this point. I don't actually see Lady actively saying or even implying Taylor is a scumread. Maybe it's just my brain being out of whack. Noraa seems far too defensive of Taylor imo. Even defending against the jokepost.

VOTE: Noraa

[Zdenek]

EBWOP

I've read up to page 6, and skimmed the more recent stuff.

Unvote

Consider my vote on Noraa.

Ok I still haven't read but I have a question that I want answered by the time I do, should we change how we lim? Like if there is someone who people townlean but we know they have a strong scum game are we more likely to vote them in this setup?

Can I ask what led you to this? I'm curious because it came up in the thread and it makes me question whether you've read or not.

I'm inclined to agree that Noraa's town-slip looks faked, and the meta argument for why it is scummy seems good to me.

You can influence whatever you please, but forcing people to pick from the top of a point list only guarantees the scum know EXACTLY what they need to do to win.

Of course it would be impossible to force a cursed player to pass the scroll to anyone in particular, but hey ho, I still think that my points plan would be excellent, but also not interested in pushing for it further.

He said he was gonna spectate this game and that I was in it already. I was at the time, not even aware of this games existence.

This seems like it can't be true.

[Flea The Magician]

EBWOP

Jeeze you folk get busy.
[...]So, keeping it brief, it's past midnight and my brain is starting to shut down for the night. The Discord [...]

[Tayl0r Swift]

the way noraa is responding to pressure is increasingly the way shed do it as scum, but its not unlike her town meta.

[MURDERCAT]

Can I ask what led you to this? I'm curious because it came up in the thread and it makes me question whether you've read or not.

Pretty sure I explained in the post that I hadn't read but I had been thinking about it in sign ups. I don't think it's that unique of a thought to be honest.

[Toogeloo]

You distancing now, Swift?

Unvote;
Vote; Noraa

[Tayl0r Swift]

nah i think its a bad wagon, but this whole time ive been saying theres probably a better than random chance noraa flips scum, just not enough of a chance that she deserved the pressure shes under. its whatever, but its kinda dumb.

[MURDERCAT]

better than random chance noraa flips scum

Sounds like a great wagon to me tbh

[Bell]

I think i’m Going to miss the chance to bus but i’m With you in spirit.

I don’t think i’m particularly spicy of a town read fidget.
I disagree on pooky read. Agree on the other two.

[Bell]

Also, those capital letters are from my phone posting and don’t take it as code that i’m A seer or whatever all the letters spell together. Last time that happened I got investigated by said seer (I was also a werewolf, so that sucked).

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nah i think its a bad wagon, but this whole time ive been saying theres probably a better than random chance noraa flips scum, just not enough of a chance that she deserved the pressure shes under. its whatever, but its kinda dumb.

lol scum swift

[Noraa]

Honestly with things as they are rn, scums are just gonna jump on me. Look how quick this wagon is building up. And on top of that they get a free town pass for jumping on me without even providing a reason courtesy of Mrs. LLT. I'm overly defensive as town which if you wait a few days(like 1-2 irl days), I will have solid meta on. I've done some solving but I'm definitely finding it hard to solve when people can just jump on me without actually backing anything up and that's the norm. It makes it terribly hard to solve so stop fucking doing that >:(

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

she already said she liked their thought process and how transparent it was.

[Fidget]

I think i’m Going to miss the chance to bus but i’m With you in spirit.

I don’t think i’m particularly spicy of a town read fidget.
I disagree on pooky read. Agree on the other two.

I don't know if they were being serious about you as a Noraa partner or not :<

nah i think its a bad wagon, but this whole time ive been saying theres probably a better than random chance noraa flips scum, just not enough of a chance that she deserved the pressure shes under. its whatever, but its kinda dumb.

So in other words, it's a good wagon.

I think I understand your meaning. There is a disproportionate amount of pressure when compared to the offense committed, is that what you mean? To that I say, yes you are right, but so are most wagons on day one.

[Fidget]

I am curious what would qualify as a good wagon to Tayl0r rn. Or if there are no good wagons, then what is stopping Noraa from being the best one out of currently available options?

Also, a question to the people discussing the mech: Did you decide it was worthwhile enough to give the final scroll pass to the scummiest player? Or should we not bother?

I understand that, in a way, we block a night kill if the final bounce is to scum. But that will require us dictating to the second chosen player who to pick, which is unfortunate. We also might learn something from who scum passes the scroll to anyway. That is why I am not sure what our best option is.