In post 298, Infinity 324 wrote:The reason why I voted flavor to begin with is because he seemed to be trying to control the narrative a bit, and I felt that he was trying to look town. Instead of just waiting to see how hopkirk would react to his posting, he made sure to say "Look guys, I'm watching to see how hopkirk reacts to this!" Ali pointed out a similar thing in 131.
But you are aware of how FL is approaching his playstyle at this alt and how you can approach his slot to extract something AI.
It seems to me that the instance you are taking is of someone who is seeing this for the first time and generally pushing for reasons that you should know are not necessarily scum!Ahsoka trying to control the narrative.
I imagine it would make more sense for town!Infinity to evaluate the context of the discussion involving Ahsoka earlier, what would that imply in the scenarios scum!Ahsoka and town!Ahsoka and only after this process takes a side, am I wrong?
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:28 pm
by Infinity 324
Can you rephrase some of that a bit?
I do know that it's much more difficult to read someone who goes "your vote on me is awful your read on me is awful you're either scum or really bad town". Town can do that too, so if flavor is scum he can hide behind that easily. I was trying to draw him in so we could interact more meaningfully.
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:31 pm
by Infinity 324
This is also affected by the fact that I just finished a game where I tunneled town whose reaction was basically "your SR on me is so awful that you must be scum". I saw that type of thing developing with flavor, and I didn't want it to happen again.
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:33 pm
by clidd
I mean, it does not seem to me that you are really evaluating both sides of the coin and your decision to take one side was not congruent as a reflection on the scenarios that could explain what Ahsoka's line of action would suggest in AI terms.
In other words, there is a lack of analysis on your part in relation to Ahsoka. The impression I have of town!you is someone impartial when evaluating a slot and the way you approached the scum!Ahsoka side more than town!Ahsoka didn't seem organic.
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:35 pm
by clidd
Ah, I was out of the forum for a while and came back only last month. My English is not coming so fluent rn, so if something is not understandable you should tell me.
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:40 pm
by Infinity 324
I don't really think there's enough info to do an analysis like you're saying? Early on, I like to try to get the game moving, so I come to "conclusions" earlier than I would normally. But I'm still in the sorting process. I hoped that my vote would start an interaction with flavor that would get me a better read on him, but I didn't get as much out of it as I hoped. I often have an easier time analyzing motivations when someone's engaged with me. I definitely don't think it's impossible that he's town here, but my gut said that was the less likely scenario from his entrance, so I wanted to roll with it and see what happens.
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:50 pm
by clidd
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:51 pm
by clidd
Ok, but you know that it wouldn't work for you to get something AI from him doing that, considering that you already knew about his play in this account, so why promote something that, theoretically, you know that it would not work? and I was talking about a short analysis, or rather, an impression of how both the town and scum scenarios would explain his actions - you had the context of the discussion on the last few pages as material.
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:59 pm
by Infinity 324
I thought it might work, though maybe I was a bit too hopeful. Like, scum!flavor might see an opportunity to try and pocket me or get me to TR him, and town!flavor might just want to have an honest engagement. I feel like I could possibly tell these apart later, and in any case, the game is much more enjoyable if one of these scenarios occurs.
If I did an analysis of town- and scum-motivation it would be something like:
Town: Flavor thinks hopkirk is scummy and wants to scare him/discourage hopkirk from pushing him. This could also get him good reactions.
Scum: Flavor wants to take control of the narrative and discourage people from pushing him. This could also get him a mislim if he can paint hopkirk's actions badly (assuming hopkirk is town).
I'm not really sure how to logically disentangle these two scenarios, at this point the only thing I have to go on is gut. So I followed my gut and tried to generate more info that I can use to tell them apart.
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:48 pm
by clidd
It wasn't exactly the way I was imagining it, but that's ok. I understand what you mean, thanks.
I do know that it's much more difficult to read someone who goes "your vote on me is awful your read on me is awful you're either scum or really bad town". Town can do that too, so if flavor is scum he can hide behind that easily. I was trying to draw him in so we could interact more meaningfully.
This wasn't even my reasoning.
I specifically stated that it was the timing of the vote, and the momentum possibility it had when I was away mixed with you not even knowing the context of my posts thus far.
Why would you think scumMe can't interact meaningfully? I did this when you were Detective and I was scum.
Infinity, something's up with you this game
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:30 am
by Ahsoka
you're at E-2, you should claim because I already gave my intent to hammer.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:32 am
by Ahsoka
You pushed me like you wanted me to be scum, but you didn't even have accurate representation of the game that was being played.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:21 am
by Uncrowned
facts
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:03 am
by Hopkirk
In post 224, Alisae wrote:No one actually answered my question so I’m going to ask again lol
In general I'd take 'no response' as 'no' or 'i don't care' in a scenario where a stance either way is more/less likely to come from people wihtout/with the knowledge already.
I was looking at 3p hoods the other day for unrelated reasons. Each slot there is reasonably more likely to flip scum than the average slot based on the amount of scum/players in those slots compared to scum/players overall. Ideally you'd reach each player individually rather than getting locked into reading based on them being in a hood. There's probably at least one scum in there based on mod meta, but I think you can get better odds through general play than through mod meta so I'm generally of the stance of not massively caring about hoods (actually in practice I'm probably more of the stance of fakeclaiming your hoods are masonaries and seeing how people/scum react)
In post 234, Ahsoka wrote:Semi tinfoil int Infinity and Hopkirk team now.
Finding Ahsoka's stance on infinity weird here. Seems kind of afraid of an infinity scumflip while saying he supports the vote. Possible partnering noted but feels kind of clumsy on Ahsoka's part. I'd expect better theater if it was SvS so probably not.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:07 am
by Hopkirk
In post 243, Kanna wrote:(i'm sorry, game content soon, i promise)
or you could just not give content. that's fine too. arguably better
In post 190, Hopkirk wrote:It's a good list. I really hope to see a toxic 1v1 between ABR and FL
Morning tweet, if scum, has already sworn in the scum QT multiple times about the amount of heavy angry ATE going to collectively come from any possible town this game.
Come on ahsoka. Point out the fakeness. I'm calling you out on this. Show me your pathetic words so that I may use them to evicerate you.
In post 90, Hopkirk wrote:Ah, I thought you might be refering to the spewing of molten rage that I do when anyone dares suspect me. I'm not angry with Ahsoka yet, but they should still be made of fear.
Now why are you on my leg instead of on infinity soldier?
Like no matter how you look at it, it just is that. My standing always goes down in a neutral stance in that position, which is the purpose of a discredit.
And you don't even know the context of the 1v1 yet chose to push a stance.
In post 256, Ahsoka wrote:Disagree. It's not always about what they say, it's how they say it.
What are you responding to here?
Honestly most of what hopkirk said read as joking to me. It's kinda hard to tell how much of what hopkirk says is a joke, but you should err on the side of "all of it". I could kinda see 84 as discrediting, but ehh. I read the posts and I came to a tentative conclusion based on it, depending on how you reacted to my vote. You reacted with "either you're scum or you're garbage at reading me" which could come from town but it's hard for me to see because you still haven't asked for my reasons and in any case it's way premature.
i like poking players who say arrogant/over self-confident sounding stuff like
Game's boring, wagon me so I can catch the scum who vote me and the ones that don't.
and seeing how they react. The intent here is to poke them in the ego and see if they flail. My actual reads aren't generally jokes unless they're clear exaggerations which should hopefully be clear from context and i don't think i've made any of these that i remember this game. Stuff surrounding them... tbh reading based on enjoyment vibes seems to work well enough that any joking has a partial benefit purely by happening.
In post 285, Morning Tweet wrote:@Kanna idk how Hoppy knew but basically im powerless as scum versus town with strong AtE game and it's possible id have actually sworn about it in mafia chat
i was TRing you a bit early game in SS3, so i read your comments in the scum-QT early game to see how you were approaching it at that point. you mentioned the thing about me/Pooky and i expanded it a bit here based on a rough estimate of how far it applies more broadly across the playerlist
In post 293, clidd wrote:I'm feeling some townpings of Alisae, Hopkirk and Ahsoka.
It's strange to see ABR being friendly, but I am open to new experiences.
The way Infinity approached and expressed himself about Ahsoka, without contextualizing his opinion about the discussion between Ahsoka x Hopkirk in a more organic way, as I would like from town!Infinity, reflected me as a negative ping.
Everyone else is null.
heh, i have the same townpings plus three other ones
In post 298, Infinity 324 wrote:The reason why I voted flavor to begin with is because he seemed to be trying to control the narrative a bit, and I felt that he was trying to look town. Instead of just waiting to see how hopkirk would react to his posting, he made sure to say "Look guys, I'm watching to see how hopkirk reacts to this!" Ali pointed out a similar thing in 131.
i said the exact same thing was my main problem with FL when we were doing a quick toxic 1v1 earlier and i don't like that you're not bringing me mentioning it up while brining up Ali mentioning it
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:23 am
by Hopkirk
In post 308, Infinity 324 wrote:I thought it might work, though maybe I was a bit too hopeful. Like, scum!flavor might see an opportunity to try and pocket me or get me to TR him, and town!flavor might just want to have an honest engagement. I feel like I could possibly tell these apart later, and in any case, the game is much more enjoyable if one of these scenarios occurs.
If I did an analysis of town- and scum-motivation it would be something like:
Town: Flavor thinks hopkirk is scummy and wants to scare him/discourage hopkirk from pushing him. This could also get him good reactions.
Scum: Flavor wants to take control of the narrative and discourage people from pushing him. This could also get him a mislim if he can paint hopkirk's actions badly (assuming hopkirk is town).
I'm not really sure how to logically disentangle these two scenarios, at this point the only thing I have to go on is gut. So I followed my gut and tried to generate more info that I can use to tell them apart.
? this isn't the town motivation i was modelling
you've given your views on FL's side, how about evaluating the Hopkirk side of the toxic 1v1? i find it kind of odd how limited this has been in comparison
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:34 am
by Ahsoka
In post 316, Hopkirk wrote:Finding Ahsoka's stance on infinity weird here. Seems kind of afraid of an infinity scumflip while saying he supports the vote. Possible partnering noted but feels kind of clumsy on Ahsoka's part. I'd expect better theater if it was SvS so probably not.
I specifically said I'd hammer, you know that, right?
Infinity's read on me is poor/fake, even if he is town.
My vote is still on you.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:36 am
by Ahsoka
It's not the fact he has a scum read on me, it's his basis and reasoning is just not there, and he was pushing it, but he didn't even have context about any of my posts, because he didn't even know about my posts towards you, hopkirk, and that was essentially all of my posts at the time.
He was actively making a case on me with reasoning based on my posts, without knowing my posts.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:38 am
by Ahsoka
It's not the read itself, it's how he got there just reeks of fabrication.
In post 316, Hopkirk wrote:Finding Ahsoka's stance on infinity weird here. Seems kind of afraid of an infinity scumflip while saying he supports the vote. Possible partnering noted but feels kind of clumsy on Ahsoka's part. I'd expect better theater if it was SvS so probably not.
I specifically said I'd hammer, you know that, right?
Infinity's read on me is poor/fake, even if he is town.
My vote is still on you.
no, in general i don't know what's been posted beyond the page i'm on because i like to catch up page by page (exceptions when i've been idly flicking through the thread on mobile in the morning and take a couple of things in pre catch up)
i've made in fairly clear i have issue with infinity's analysis of the Hop/Ahs discussion
i don't care, must be embarrassing to admit though
