Mafiascum.net

In post 295, Dragon of the West wrote:I can't see how Dwlee disagreeing about strategy can generate such a strong reaction from you that you feel a "correct" argument is bogging things down? Like even if it's slightly pedantic, aren't those the exact discussions that should help town align on a strategy? Especially when someone is suggesting a strategy for the group to follow on one of the first pages of the game. AND you go on to say that you don't necessarily agree with DGB's strategy....then what's your suggestion? ignore making any semblance of a plan rather than determine a path forward and work to make town's plan better? It's weird to not take a stance on DGB's early suggestion, but then scum read someone for openly saying they disagree with it.

sigh. please refer to my question asking about how much mafia you have played because this site has been around a while and the meta for playing most setups is fairly well established: run someone up, ask for a claim, people decide if they believe the claim or not, if they believe it or don't want to kill it that day we move on to a new target. it's not like we need to get together and conference every game for deciding how we're going to play, i'm not sure why you would expect it to be that way? like this is going to be a real uphill battle if i'm gonna have to give you the mafia 101 crash course

the point dgb was making was that recently normal setups have been outright trollish in their design and people have lost town games by making bad assumptions about setup mechanics. "play the game as if it were mountainous is" is obviously an extreme suggestion but at the heart of it favoring dayplay over claims isn't bad. dwlee's retort to that post was pedantic, and i felt trying to drag things into the realm of pure theory scummy

In post 299, Dragon of the West wrote:

In post 292, petapan wrote:

In post 288, Dragon of the West wrote:Okay, thanks. And are those threads usually related to specific PRs or is it possible for vanilla roles to have access to PTs?

players in neighborhoods can be PRs or have no other powers - it used to be that neighbors were usually otherwise vanilla but PRs in hoods are more common now

real quick - you've been away from the site for a while, have you played mafia at all in the meantime? do you remember the games you played on this site at all?

\

I haven't played any mafia since I've been away from the site, but I've played deception-type games like Secret Hitler. And I don't remember anything meaningful from the couple games I did play (I think I only played 2). I think I remember getting targeted really early the game I was mafia and played it poorly.

i asked because you were in a hood in one of your old games, granted i don't necessarily expect you to remember stuff from 5 years ago but was maybe a little concerned you might be playing up the angle of being unfamiliar to get townread, like the newbie card. that's paranoid of me tho, oi think so far you've been all right

In post 294, petapan wrote:

In post 291, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 281, petapan wrote:this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

yeah b/c it was the fact that you came at me in a sleazy way and keep trying to make weaselly misrep arguments, this is largely independent of my read of dwlee where yours is conspiracy-brain shit that stop making sense in worlds where i am town

I don't know if you are town. I think you are scummy for hard-buddying DGB and I said so in 60. I do think your push on DW is bad and make sense to like no one in the thread.

i like vfp this game

t3 is also probs town

In post 302, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 294, petapan wrote:

In post 291, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 281, petapan wrote:this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

yeah b/c it was the fact that you came at me in a sleazy way and keep trying to make weaselly misrep arguments, this is largely independent of my read of dwlee where yours is conspiracy-brain shit that stop making sense in worlds where i am town

I don't know if you are town. I think you are scummy for hard-buddying DGB and I said so in 60. I do think your push on DW is bad and make sense to like no one in the thread.

several people were voting him so i don't see how it makes sense to no one but ok

In post 253, Nero Cain wrote:I still feel like DW being against DGB's proposal ranges from town-null. Like I certainly understand that DW could be scum that called out an anti-town policy for town cred but I don't understand that he has to be scum b/c of it. Also, Peta is being selective here where he thinks that I and DW are scum for not liking DGB plan but not osuka.

not selective, already explained it, way he reacted to it felt genuine enough, this is only a significant difference if you're just looking to intentionally misrepresent me which clearly you are

In post 300, petapan wrote:

In post 295, Dragon of the West wrote:I can't see how Dwlee disagreeing about strategy can generate such a strong reaction from you that you feel a "correct" argument is bogging things down? Like even if it's slightly pedantic, aren't those the exact discussions that should help town align on a strategy? Especially when someone is suggesting a strategy for the group to follow on one of the first pages of the game. AND you go on to say that you don't necessarily agree with DGB's strategy....then what's your suggestion? ignore making any semblance of a plan rather than determine a path forward and work to make town's plan better? It's weird to not take a stance on DGB's early suggestion, but then scum read someone for openly saying they disagree with it.

sigh. please refer to my question asking about how much mafia you have played because this site has been around a while and the meta for playing most setups is fairly well established: run someone up, ask for a claim, people decide if they believe the claim or not, if they believe it or don't want to kill it that day we move on to a new target. it's not like we need to get together and conference every game for deciding how we're going to play, i'm not sure why you would expect it to be that way? like this is going to be a real uphill battle if i'm gonna have to give you the mafia 101 crash course

the point dgb was making was that recently normal setups have been outright trollish in their design and people have lost town games by making bad assumptions about setup mechanics. "play the game as if it were mountainous is" is obviously an extreme suggestion but at the heart of it favoring dayplay over claims isn't bad. dwlee's retort to that post was pedantic, and i felt trying to drag things into the realm of pure theory scummy

So I understand there's going to be a meta and I'm not suggesting a conference as necessary; but if someone disagrees about DGB's suggestion I don't see the harm in openly disagreeing. Maybe that's because I tend to be a pedantic person myself, I see value in some minutia. But also, isn't DGB suggesting a strategy offhand early on just as derailing and promoting the "conference" you want to avoid? The meta is so established that nothing is worth discussing to you, so why bother

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

In post 300, petapan wrote:the point dgb was making was that recently normal setups have been outright trollish in their design and people have lost town games by making bad assumptions about setup mechanics. "play the game as if it were mountainous is" is obviously an extreme suggestion but at the heart of it favoring dayplay over claims isn't bad.

I also do not like this. Like yes, DGB probably meant "let's just worry more about dayplay" and DGB just communicated that very very poorly but you are giving this a very generous spin and it gives me the willies. Sure DW could be scum that wanted to shoot this down for town cred but I think town are just as likely to call this out.

every time peta claims misrep it just makes me think he's caught scum b/c claiming something is a misrep is doing the same to me.

In post 307, petapan wrote:i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

if it's real i'm real curious about what happened in that PT for anya to not only claim it but hard go for kyouko
like if Kyouko's been talking in there it changes some things about my read on the slot

In post 301, petapan wrote:

In post 299, Dragon of the West wrote:

In post 292, petapan wrote:

In post 288, Dragon of the West wrote:Okay, thanks. And are those threads usually related to specific PRs or is it possible for vanilla roles to have access to PTs?

players in neighborhoods can be PRs or have no other powers - it used to be that neighbors were usually otherwise vanilla but PRs in hoods are more common now

real quick - you've been away from the site for a while, have you played mafia at all in the meantime? do you remember the games you played on this site at all?

\

I haven't played any mafia since I've been away from the site, but I've played deception-type games like Secret Hitler. And I don't remember anything meaningful from the couple games I did play (I think I only played 2). I think I remember getting targeted really early the game I was mafia and played it poorly.

i asked because you were in a hood in one of your old games, granted i don't necessarily expect you to remember stuff from 5 years ago but was maybe a little concerned you might be playing up the angle of being unfamiliar to get townread, like the newbie card. that's paranoid of me tho, oi think so far you've been all right

Yeah I just didn't remember the neighborhood thing. I don't think I played enough in my first go around for that kind of stuff to really stick.

In post 306, Dragon of the West wrote:

In post 300, petapan wrote:

In post 295, Dragon of the West wrote:I can't see how Dwlee disagreeing about strategy can generate such a strong reaction from you that you feel a "correct" argument is bogging things down? Like even if it's slightly pedantic, aren't those the exact discussions that should help town align on a strategy? Especially when someone is suggesting a strategy for the group to follow on one of the first pages of the game. AND you go on to say that you don't necessarily agree with DGB's strategy....then what's your suggestion? ignore making any semblance of a plan rather than determine a path forward and work to make town's plan better? It's weird to not take a stance on DGB's early suggestion, but then scum read someone for openly saying they disagree with it.

sigh. please refer to my question asking about how much mafia you have played because this site has been around a while and the meta for playing most setups is fairly well established: run someone up, ask for a claim, people decide if they believe the claim or not, if they believe it or don't want to kill it that day we move on to a new target. it's not like we need to get together and conference every game for deciding how we're going to play, i'm not sure why you would expect it to be that way? like this is going to be a real uphill battle if i'm gonna have to give you the mafia 101 crash course

the point dgb was making was that recently normal setups have been outright trollish in their design and people have lost town games by making bad assumptions about setup mechanics. "play the game as if it were mountainous is" is obviously an extreme suggestion but at the heart of it favoring dayplay over claims isn't bad. dwlee's retort to that post was pedantic, and i felt trying to drag things into the realm of pure theory scummy

So I understand there's going to be a meta and I'm not suggesting a conference as necessary; but if someone disagrees about DGB's suggestion I don't see the harm in openly disagreeing. Maybe that's because I tend to be a pedantic person myself, I see value in some minutia. But also, isn't DGB suggesting a strategy offhand early on just as derailing and promoting the "conference" you want to avoid? The meta is so established that nothing is worth discussing to you, so why bother

in a sense it could be disruptive, that's true, but i simply don't think it was ill-intentioned in the way dgb presented it. that sort of idea is much more likely to be met with hostility and rejection, which is not particularly beneficial for scum, where arguing a "common sense" approach against dgb's proposal is much less risky, because people will leap to his defense for saying the "right" thing about how to play, even though anyone can argue that. this is like how nero keeps trying to paint me as being against the idea of people claiming but that's not what i'm trying to say.

i'm sorry but i don't think here's any way i'm gonna be able to get this argument across to you in a satisfactory way, i'm okay with that, i am not dead set on selling you specifically on dwlee scum. on day 1 especially i'm a player who plays off gut, and i don't think i'm going to be able to communicate that to you because we're not approaching the game from the same place (which is not a bad thing, to be clear)


also, sorry for traveling back in time, but i'm just catching up here so i'll be hopping back and forth

In post 274, Dragon of the West wrote:Okay, reading everything to catch up now. I'm at the end of page 5 and I'm not understanding the evolution of peta's argument. It started with scum reading Dwlee99 for being too pedantic when it just seemed like he was disagreeing with DGB's strategy. And now if anything peta's posts are just trying to twist anything they can to put the fire on other people over nothing. I really haven't played much mafia and I'm not familiar with petapan as a player, but their playstyle this game seems overly aggro.

Unofficial vote on peta here. gonna continue reading

is aggression scummy to you?

In post 310, nomnomnom wrote:

In post 307, petapan wrote:i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

if it's real i'm real curious about what happened in that PT for anya to not only claim it but hard go for kyouko
like if Kyouko's been talking in there it changes some things about my read on the slot

anya is very trolly so like, i got no idea there





there's a bunch of people who are saying they want to catch up and a decent chunk of the game who has yet to post meaningful stuff, so i'm gonna step away for a while now to let the game breathe rather than just salvo back at nero endlessly

In post 313, petapan wrote:

In post 310, nomnomnom wrote:

In post 307, petapan wrote:i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

if it's real i'm real curious about what happened in that PT for anya to not only claim it but hard go for kyouko
like if Kyouko's been talking in there it changes some things about my read on the slot

anya is very trolly so like, i got no idea there





there's a bunch of people who are saying they want to catch up and a decent chunk of the game who has yet to post meaningful stuff, so i'm gonna step away for a while now to let the game breathe rather than just salvo back at nero endlessly

kyouko said nothing about it so it's confirmed I guess?

In post 272, petapan wrote:

In post 162, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:

In post 67, petapan wrote:

In post 60, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 33, petapan wrote:yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

peta is just all up on DBG's backside here

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that

he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

Could you explain what you're seeing by DWLee that looks like cornered scum? Trying to understand this viewpoint but I just can't

response to me slapping him with my vote on page 1 didn't look like a town reaction

Idk man looks townie to me

In post 315, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Idk man looks townie to me

agree to disagree

why are you voting dgb

i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

In post 304, petapan wrote:several people were voting him so i don't see how it makes sense to no one but ok

titus' reason was

rathe was just sheeping DGB

derek and anya were RVS votes.

I don't think anyone is really sheeping you.

In post 317, Save The Dragons wrote:i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

how does your gut know what to do if it hasn't read?

I lied again I did read everything

In post 121, petapan wrote:lol nero and dwlee are absolutely howling right now

@Petapan you seem like a competent player - I’m not seeing this. Perhaps Dwlee is Scum (they had an awkwardly phrased response on Page 1, and I don’t disagree with you that arguing against DGB there is easy), but I think you’re wrong on Nero (or are expressing too much confidence Nero is Scum, rather). I’ll keep reading, maybe I’ll change my mind, but I think you’re coming out a bit too hot.

In post 135, T3 wrote:osuka is town.

I don’t trust that you can make this statement with any sort of reasonable degree of certainty this early. You’re not Scum again are you?

In post 151, Dwlee99 wrote:

In post 146, Rathe wrote:i think it happens a lot that people who talk more early r more likely town

In post 147, Rathe wrote:especially ones who get into big discussions

Titus did you start townreading me or just start scumreading peta more?

Rathe I feel like you're evil.

Meh this slot really might just be Scum haha

In post 160, Nero Cain wrote:Andre is a lurksack but I expect him to start playing if he's town.

No u!