Page 121 of 177
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:30 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
it doesnt matter what I think
it matters whether YOU are super sure asteria is flipping red
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:31 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
anya feels very surface level and barely playing the game
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:32 pm
by InsidiousLemons
super sure? nah. sure enough to put her up as the lim, and be okay with it if i'm wrong and we lose a limited-usefulness PR in the process? yeah
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:33 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
um Neopos are not limited usefulness PRs
but you might as well give me your reasoning/though process on why she is scum?
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:35 pm
by Andante
In post 2990, InsidiousLemons wrote: In post 2982, VFP wrote: In post 2977, Andante wrote:I find it a little weird VFP doesn't think to question Asteria at all... like, sure you're VT and someone guessed correctly that you are, just feels like VFP has no doubt with Asteria, so I'm not so sure she's actually neo
It's more that voting off someone who can potentially get a result tomorrow, or at least force scum to make a choice if the 3 PRs are all town seems better than a lim here.
You're looking to lim for the claim, more than for being scum. It's day 2 and that's just makes no sense to me.
On the side though, I think Asteria is town here. They should only be considered scum here if I am.
I'm not sure why they would be accepting to be the lim over me other wise. Not to mention picking me as VT was an un needed risk since I've been for 1 of the PR claims to be scum.
If I were going to be the lim anyway, it wouldn't hurt to claim someone else as VT.
only she couldn't potentially get a result tomorrow unless she's lying about the non-consecutive bit. we'll be waiting at least 2 more days and who knows what will have happened by then.
you also both keep raising this point about how Very Town it was of asteria to choose you as VT and to Selflessly And Heroically suggest herself as the lim instead. it's a towntell under most circumstances, sure, but you guys seem very determined to keep reminding us just how much of a towntell it is.
also: skimming through your ISO,
2566 catches my eye. i didn't bother reading into it at first, but the more i think about it the more my head hurts. these are the relevant posts:
In post 2543, Asteria wrote:My conftown result is VFP
I targeted them because people were scumreading them at the end of the day and I didn't think they were scum.
In post 2560, Asteria wrote: In post 2558, Anya wrote:oh you're saying you're not VT vfp? that would make things easy
VFP is most definitely VT. I'm not sure why they think I'm lying
In post 2562, VFP wrote:
I guess you picked the wrong person there. Was a worthy try.
In post 2564, Asteria wrote:
Nice reaction test. And very understandable since people think I'm playing a guessing game with it
In post 2566, VFP wrote:UNVOTE: Asteria
I am VT for the record. I also did a subtle post to make Asteria not want to pick me if they were lying.
the idea here is that by subtly crumbing PR while actually being VT, you are trying to coax lying!asteria into picking someone who isn't VT and will catch her in a lie. the problem with this is that you had no reason, as far as i can tell, to suspect that asteria would pick you in the first place if lying. you weren't obvtown D1, you hadn't claimed or crumbed VT. so what was the motivation for this "test" besides providing support for the idea that you really are VT? the more i look at it the more i start to read it as scum!VFP creating evidence for themself that they can fall back on after a planned "VFP is VT" result from asteria. this back-and-forth between VFP and asteria could easily be an example of the same -- them creating evidence of a reaction test to save themselves if questions were raised about the veracity of the nea claim. am i going full tinfoil? it's possible, but when there is conclusive proof that they are definitely the same alignment, it does raise the odds of this being scum collaboration.
> only she couldn't potentially get a result tomorrow unless she's lying about the non-consecutive bit
* Yeah, if she's real, she's either lying about the consecutive bit and will have a report tomorrow, or will be dead D4, Scum has already proven they'll kill the scummy PR claims (they killed Robert when they really didn't have to)
* I probably missed a lot of the "how much of a towntell it was to pick VFP" but to be fair, I did say D1 I was gun checking VFP, and Asteria was like "We probably checked the same person" - She's probably real tbh
* Yeah the issue with VFP subtly claiming pr, was that Asteria was stuck with this neo claim after I forced her to claim it, so whichever VT she picked, she had to stick with it.
honestly... I think Asteria really is neo, but neo could be town or scum, maybe not... ahhh tbh I shouldn't have knowingly let town!Dragons die d1
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:36 pm
by Andante
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:42 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
i kinda dont really want that responsibility cuz I could just be wrong.
I just want to know what every1 is seeing in Asteria's play that makes them want to kill her even when she's claiming a Neop
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:45 pm
by Andante
In post 3006, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i kinda dont really want that responsibility cuz I could just be wrong.
I just want to know what every1 is seeing in Asteria's play that makes them want to kill her even when she's claiming a Neop
I mean, I'm down with voting her cause no one else is attempting to find scum, just "well if she's real we have VFP town" like, I can't solve this game by myself, and the others aren't doing a whole lot, lemons is now, and everyone else has been MIA
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:48 pm
by Andante
tbh I think I'd be good with an Anya elim. the timing of when she shows up here.. is very convinient
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:51 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
i'm like not really down with eliminating people just cuz nothing is going on
if I lose to scum I want it to be because I made shitty decisions, not cuz I didn't even try to play
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:53 pm
by Andante
I mean, half the table really isn't playing... Pooky.. we haven't gotten any actual thoughts on where to go from you here on D2.... So I think I've overcommited to stuff (lol never again) but I want to just do a full read through, cause I think I'm missing something, so that's why my reads are off, so uhh that'll be on the agenda lol
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:55 pm
by Andante
I think I'll stand by not voting out the neo claim here though
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:56 pm
by InsidiousLemons
In post 3003, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:um Neopos are not limited usefulness PRs
but you might as well give me your reasoning/though process on why she is scum?
they are when they're non-consecutive night and likely to get NK'd in the interim.
most of my reasoning lies in the
extreme
convenience of her claim. as i said on the last page, it feels like a near-optimal pick for scum looking to buy themselves time in case of a GS check. it's not too much of a stretch to assume that if they thought this far ahead, they'd have also thought about what to say when prompted to out results. the dialogue between asteria and vfp could easily be rehearsed, and the reaction test performed was universally-applicable enough to work on any combination of GS-checked scum and their buddy.
on D1, she had a townlean on dragons for a good bit and then asks in
1111 for someone to explain the case on him, which no one seems to do. she says nothing more on the subject right up until
1637 when suddenly she "definitely doesn't TR him". says she'll take some time to ISO, comes back with
1983 and basically regurgitates what's already been said plus an actually okay point about how quickly the wagon moved from STD to crayons. this is the one and only original observation she makes about him before saying she's fine with him being the elim, voting him, and poofing.
not a spectacular showing D1 + shoddy claim + confirming VFP either way is kinda reason enough for me. though as i said i am far from 100% sure and would be happy to hear from the others.
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:58 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
if they are likely to get NK'd why would we use an elim on them?
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:00 pm
by InsidiousLemons
In post 3004, Andante wrote:
* Yeah the issue with VFP subtly claiming pr, was that Asteria was stuck with this neo claim after I forced her to claim it, so whichever VT she picked, she had to stick with it.
i didn't make this connection. that's actually a rather strong point in her favour
p-edit only likely to get NK'd as town. i said this in the context of the worst case scenario where we flip asteria and it turns out the claim was real.
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:00 pm
by InsidiousLemons
wait fuck i quoted the wrong part
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:01 pm
by InsidiousLemons
In post 3004, Andante wrote:to be fair, I did say D1 I was gun checking VFP, and Asteria was like "We probably checked the same person" - She's probably real tbh
this is the connection i failed to make
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:02 pm
by Andante
I did some looking into the actual claim. here's some info
Non-Consecutive Night modifier
> Although this is an effective way of reducing the power and influence of a role in a game, X-Shot and Even/Odd Night restrictions are typically more common.
> Non-Consecutive Night Commuters or Doctors are the most common roles associated with this modifier, but it's certainly possible for it to be applied to others.
Neapolitan role
> While Neapolitans have utility for both Town and Mafia, they are more commonly assigned to Town.
>
The Town Neapolitan
is designed around the ability to confirm townies rather than get guilty results on mafia. As no normal mafia roles are immune to its power, any vanilla results are indisputable.
The Neapolitan is weaker than a Cop (which can get guilties) and stronger than the original Vanilla Cop (which can't confirm alignments). Its power is comparable to a slightly weaker Gunsmith, in that it has the potential to get many more false guilties, getting the same result on all Power Roles as it does on Mafia.
>
As an anti-town role
, the Neapolitan is equivalent to a Vanilla Cop and slightly weaker than a Role Cop, in that its primary purpose is to determine which players are Power Roles and worth killing.
In conclusion. I think we have a maf neo, but if it's town, this will be high on scum's radar to kill...
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:03 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
In post 3014, InsidiousLemons wrote:p-edit only likely to get NK'd as town. i said this in the context of the worst case scenario where we flip asteria and it turns out the claim was real.
ok so if we let her live, wouldn't whether she gets NK'd or not give us valuable information about her alignment?
like if you're saying she definitely gets shot as town, why not give the scumbags a chance to kill her?
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:04 pm
by Andante
In post 3018, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3014, InsidiousLemons wrote:p-edit only likely to get NK'd as town. i said this in the context of the worst case scenario where we flip asteria and it turns out the claim was real.
ok so if we let her live, wouldn't whether she gets NK'd or not give us valuable information about her alignment?
like if you're saying she definitely gets shot as town, why not give the scumbags a chance to kill her?
yeah, so now we need to find someone to elim...
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:04 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
In post 3017, Andante wrote:In conclusion. I think we have a maf neo, but if it's town, this will be high on scum's radar to kill...
um
then we'd have a
mafia roleblocker (according to koba)
mafia doctor ( according to first page)
mafia neo..
thats a pretty loaded mafia team
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:05 pm
by InsidiousLemons
knowingly?
you're seriously claiming you knew dragons was town and were willing to hammer anyway?
p-edit i think a maf neo is highly unlikely in this scenario. not out of the question, but you keep doing this thing where you assume that a fake town PR claim must come from the mafia equivalent of the same role and i don't really know what the reasoning behind it is
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:05 pm
by InsidiousLemons
In post 3018, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3014, InsidiousLemons wrote:p-edit only likely to get NK'd as town. i said this in the context of the worst case scenario where we flip asteria and it turns out the claim was real.
ok so if we let her live, wouldn't whether she gets NK'd or not give us valuable information about her alignment?
like if you're saying she definitely gets shot as town, why not give the scumbags a chance to kill her?
i never said she
definitely
gets shot, but point taken.
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:07 pm
by Andante
In post 3020, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3017, Andante wrote:In conclusion. I think we have a maf neo, but if it's town, this will be high on scum's radar to kill...
um
then we'd have a
mafia roleblocker (according to koba)
mafia doctor ( according to first page)
mafia neo..
thats a pretty loaded mafia team
oh true... I don't believe we have a roleblocker though... vig is super sus... as it was pointed out, vig either shoots town or dies shooting the maf doc save... like
In the weak modifier definition:
> Vigilante (note that if the Vigilante shoots scum, both the scum and the Vigilante die)
it makes 0 sense to roleblock that claim... but obv we're not yeeting the vig claim either :/
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:07 pm
by Andante
In post 3021, InsidiousLemons wrote:
knowingly?
you're seriously claiming you knew dragons was town and were willing to hammer anyway?
p-edit i think a maf neo is highly unlikely in this scenario. not out of the question, but you keep doing this thing where you assume that a fake town PR claim must come from the mafia equivalent of the same role and i don't really know what the reasoning behind it is
did you not read my day 1? I kept yelling dragons town, even at the end I said it was flipping town... no one would listen, so I said "whatever" and let yall have it