In Memory

[drealmerz7]

funnyman, JR!!

I'd like the 2nd option 2, please!

[JaeReed]

because I'm not going to vote a slot based on D1 of the previous owner of the slot, that seems reckless

I totally see it as scummy from vedith on D1, absolutely no doubt, but, my experience with vedith doesn't make that damning IN THE SLIGHTEST, he plays pretty fucking scummy as town

the kind of player who probably prefer to live to the end-game and lose rather than die early and win - a selfish player who was likely positioning himself to best suit himself in the long run - I can see him doing that as scum or town, but that is just from the limited exposure I have of him, I have to keep that in mind

it's not damning or excusable, its simply a base to go from, and from there, is why it turns to vax, he's that slot now and has produced MUCH MORE content than vedith did

I don't feel like giving potential scum a pass because they always look scummy as town is good play. I've successfully read people like that before (unless their name is Klingoncelt in which case I'm 0/2), and it's more to do with the way the associates point and whether the read is genuine, same as everyone else. I feel as though you're just not trying to actually sort the slot because it's lynchbait at best, which is a very lazy read.

how many completed games you have with vedith?

I actually don't know. I don't readily remember everyone I've played with before if they're largely unremarkable. Could be none, could be a handful? My case isn't meta-based though so it's a moot point.

[The DEO]

PS lycan redirecting dreal onto himself (as opposed to, say, back onto dreal) seems especially ridiculous. A redirect can be a fun way to get scum to target themselves with a night kill or other action; lycan redirecting anyone to target lycan makes MUCH less sense than lycan redirecting someone to literally anyone other than lycan (which agian makes rather little sense in the situation)

I don't believe it's so ridiculous in this context.

Lycan thought he was going to be pushed to be the next mislynch. Given his ability should have had him live for this day phase, he could have redirected his scumread drealmerz onto himself in order to both prove that he's town, and prove drealmerz was scum through his death after redirecting drealmerz to him. He did clearly say something about us not taking him alive, didn't he?

In that case we still circle back to what FA was saying though. Something also vanillaized him for the kill to not be delayed.

In that case it's 3 scenarios:
1) Scum!drealmerz was meant to kill elsewhere while a buddy vanillaized Lycan and got kill redirected onto Lycan
2) Scum!drealmerz is also a vanillaizer and meant to kill/vanillaize either Lycan or elsewhere and got redirected onto Lycan
2) Town!drealmerz meant to kill Lycan with a vig shot and scum vanillaized Lycan so the delayed death wouldn't cause issues with their next likely mislynch

And I struggle that scum would do something to a mislynch candidate.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

1.) I don't feel like giving potential scum a pass because they always look scummy as town is good play.
2.) I feel as though you're just not trying to actually sort the slot because it's lynchbait at best, which is a very lazy read.
3.) Could be none, could be a handful? My case isn't meta-based though so it's a moot point.

1.) I ABSOLUTELY AGREE and would push a PL on players like that if I had my way - I'm not giving it a pass, I'm saying I can't form a read on it with any confidence of accuracy based on previous history with vedith.

2.) No, I feel like I went back to sort the slot because I was leaning ok with a vax lynch, decided to investigate it further, and realized I was seeing the same sort of stuff as I did in Ttyll (this is not a meta-comparison) and started to see him as totally town because of it - also because I can see why other people are viewing him scummy, and I saw the same shit in Ttyll, people are SRing him for the same sort of poop-pushes he was getting SR for in Ttyll, I can't ignore that.

3.) no, the point is I was hoping you had more experience with him than I did to be able to tell me about his scumgame and how it compares to his towngame (if at all)

[mhsmith0]

I don't believe it's so ridiculous in this context.

Lycan thought he was going to be pushed to be the next mislynch. Given his ability should have had him live for this day phase, he could have redirected his scumread drealmerz onto himself in order to both prove that he's town, and prove drealmerz was scum through his death after redirecting drealmerz to him. He did clearly say something about us not taking him alive, didn't he?

In that case we still circle back to what FA was saying though. Something also vanillaized him for the kill to not be delayed.

In that case it's 3 scenarios:
1) Scum!drealmerz was meant to kill elsewhere while a buddy vanillaized Lycan and got kill redirected onto Lycan
2) Scum!drealmerz is also a vanillaizer and meant to kill/vanillaize either Lycan or elsewhere and got redirected onto Lycan
2) Town!drealmerz meant to kill Lycan with a vig shot and scum vanillaized Lycan so the delayed death wouldn't cause issues with their next likely mislynch

Except that lycan's role ability lets him act the night after he's mislynched, which means that there's relatively less risk of a mislynch suddenly preventing him from acting later (and the idea of self-clearing via death is IMO pretty silly unless you're SUPER sure that your protection target is town). From the perspective of Lycan having no reason to suspect a vanilla-izer, then it's still generally better for him to either holster (most optimal) or redirect someone onto a scumread of his (less optimal but not awful).

What seems more reasonable to you overall:

1) Scum!drealz shoots X, scum!whoever vanillaizes lycan, and lycan redirects dreal back onto lycan, solely for the sake of being able to talk during the day, despite having no particular reason to think that not only is dreal scum but that dreal is also going to be the guy who shoots him

2) drealz actually vigs lycan and the scum kill is stopped for whatever reason (BP, doc, roleblock, jailkeep, etc)

#2 just overall makes way more sense than #1.

[mhsmith0]

so wrt vaxkiller, i briefly played with his scum game in FA's large theme (suck it panzer ), he made about 30 posts
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

obviously that's a small sample size of posts, but dreal, since you're saying that he pings you here as being similar to his town game, could you take a look at that set and let me know if your sense of his scum game (evne if it is multiball) strikes you as similar?

[The DEO]

The only part of 1) that is far fetched is scum intentionally vanillizing Lycan.

What I find more likely is Drealmerz is scum or is omitting details about their kill at the very least and meant to kill someone else and redirected to Lycanfire and claimed vig for creds. I am pretty damn sure fhe other reasons would require someone tunneling their target hard if they roleblocked or jailkept. BP or Doc would require a lot of luck.

I don't believe in good or bad luck.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

no it doesn't strike me as similar, actually quite different, that's pretty interesting and gives me more confidence in vax as town

[drealmerz7]

The only part of 1) that is far fetched is scum intentionally vanillizing Lycan.

why is that far-fetched? that seems the most reasonable to me!!!!

this is where you get the most scumpings, btw!!!!

you are searching for any reason to paint me scum for that kill, you seem desperate to have me viewed as scum for that kill, rather than what makes sense

WHY ON EARTH WOULD I OUT THE KILL?!?!?!?!?

[drealmerz7]

wait...let me guess

for the WIFOM!

*slams head*

[KuroiXHF]

@drealmerz So you believe that Gamma Emerald would be their partner and they bussed RM/boring?

I only believe it is POSSIBLE

scumreads in this game are WEAK AS SHIT

quit misrepping me, I am not scumreading you because you're a hydra

So can we actually lynch this, please?

[drealmerz7]

says the it not even playing the game at all

[KuroiXHF]

says the it not even playing the game at all

Are you really using my pronoun in a derogatory manner?

[drealmerz7]

not at all!

I initially typed "guy" and then my brain corrected me because I try to be considerate of that sort of thing

[drealmerz7]

rather I try to be conscious of those things

I am considerate, that's what the use of the it was

[KuroiXHF]

Ah, I see. Sorry if I came across as reactive.

But anyways, I am playing the game. I am interacting. To be honest, I feel I'm doing a lot more than you are. I find you to simply be commanding rather than interacting.

[The DEO]

Ah, I see. Sorry if I came across as reactive.

But anyways, I am playing the game. I am interacting. To be honest, I feel I'm doing a lot more than you are. I find you to simply be commanding rather than interacting.

This. It is why I townread Kuroi.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

well excsuse me if I'm not all cuddly after outting my kill and then getting a shitstorm afterwards

[KuroiXHF]

well excsuse me if I'm not all cuddly after outting my kill and then getting a shitstorm afterwards

I don't think anyone's cuddly, although we can discuss things without turning into a rage.

[Postie]

If dreal is Mafia here I'm nomming him for a scummy. I don't buy he could possibly fake the way his emotions have developed across the game.

[KuroiXHF]

If dreal is Mafia here I'm nomming him for a scummy. I don't buy he could possibly fake the way his emotions have developed across the game.

And how many have you nominated before?

[drealmerz7]

hey! don't underestimate my scumbilities!

[Postie]

0. Though I'm not sure how that's relevant.

[KuroiXHF]

0. Though I'm not sure how that's relevant.

It's relevant because if you're the type of person to throw these types of claims for being so confident of your reads, I want to see how often you're wrong.

[Postie]

Well I don't have a large enough sample size to be able to properly back anything up yet, but I do have a numbering system for how confident I am in my reads that I hope to be able to use to get statistics on how often I'm right at some point in the future. Maybe you'll get what you want the next time we play together.

Anyway, town's kinda drifting all over the place. I'm not sure how to fix this.