Mafiascum.net

In post 3054, Thor665 wrote:@Frog - out of curiosity, what do you consider optimal popcorn strategy?

I have not played in many games in which a massclaim has happened, so I have little experience here. Do you mean what I think is optimal in terms of who dictates the order?

In post 3073, TwoInAMillion wrote:I have no intentions of claiming as it will help only scum. And I will not be bullied into doing so.

If you do not claim, we will be forced to place you at L-1. Claiming now saves us time and bother. Do you want us to place you at L-1? If you do not claim in your next post I will vote for you

There are no votes on me, and I am almost universally read as town so that is rather false pressure. You need to take me for my word that claiming would not help town and move past it.

In post 3052, UnaBombaH wrote:TwoInAMillion, you are being stubborn, and you are wrong, no matter what you say.
You have pretty much ONE CLAIM, that I'd say has no value to my theory, but I'm 99% sure you don't claim it.
Anything else you claim either confirms FL, or basically Frog+Eddie scum. Understand this, and accept this.
Even if you were to be the Doctor (for example) and you don't want to claim because you are scared of a night kill coming your way, your claim would still implicate Eddie as scum or town -> confirms FL either way -> helps town immensely.

Claim and stop stalling. Even an honest VT-claim is important to me now.

In post 3053, Thor665 wrote:I will also note that if you don't claim there are clearly enough people to put you to L-1 to force it BUT TOWN DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME TO WASTE DOING THAT AND IT'S ANTI-TOWN TO OBLIGATE IT.

Two more will be joining me soon

A full claim is not coming, and I'm not voting for twoina

Anyone else want to claim before I vote Eddie?

It will take more than that. And it is still wrong.

In post 3073, TwoInAMillion wrote:I have no intentions of claiming as it will help only scum. And I will not be bullied into doing so.

Ugh...
I'll put it in question form then: WAS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE NIGHT-KILLED N1?
As in: if scum targeted you N1 for their factional kill, would you have been killed?

Yes

In post 3079, wavemode wrote:A full claim is not coming, and I'm not voting for twoina

Anyone else want to claim before I vote Eddie?

Voting Eddie is a bigger mistake than voting TiaM until he claims a strong PR, OR ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER.
Because after that we don't have to wonder whether we take a risk or not.

Why are you more eager to lynch Eddie than Flavor Leaf by the way?
I was put at totally 50/50 between them after their claims, I had no reason to doubt either above the other.

OK, I'll take a quick bite out of something, and I'll try to get a sensible post going before I go to sleep.

In post 3083, UnaBombaH wrote:

In post 3079, wavemode wrote:A full claim is not coming, and I'm not voting for twoina

Anyone else want to claim before I vote Eddie?

Voting Eddie is a bigger mistake than voting TiaM until he claims a strong PR, OR ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER.
Because after that we don't have to wonder whether we take a risk or not.

Why are you more eager to lynch Eddie than Flavor Leaf by the way?
I was put at totally 50/50 between them after their claims, I had no reason to doubt either above the other.

Flavor has a better voting history.

In post 3083, UnaBombaH wrote:

In post 3079, wavemode wrote:A full claim is not coming, and I'm not voting for twoina

Anyone else want to claim before I vote Eddie?

Voting Eddie is a bigger mistake than voting TiaM until he claims a strong PR, OR ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER.
Because after that we don't have to wonder whether we take a risk or not.

How exactly does outing twoina make us not have to wonder whether we are taking a risk?

Why are you more eager to lynch Eddie than Flavor Leaf by the way?
I was put at totally 50/50 between them after their claims, I had no reason to doubt either above the other.

Uh, because when I first got into the thread and there was still no night kill, my exact thought was "wow, either we have an incredibly stupid/unlucky scumteam, or they are no-lynching and someone is going to fakeclaim doc"

I also agree with others who have said that there's more likely to be a limited role here than a full doctor

None of this proves Eddie is scum, but it makes me lean more to side with FL unless Eddie flips town

What we have to start with, is that one of Eddie/FL/ is scum. I want to hear a scenario where none of them is (Thor claimed there is a chance?).
Why?
Because FL claims he got a "no result" from Eddie. Frog confirms that no one blocked FL last night, so the only scenario where a Loyaltown!CopFlavorLeaf gets the result, is when Eddie is scum. Scum FlavorLeaf could just speak the truth (loyal scum gets "no result" from town!Eddie), and scum!frog could lie that no one blocked FL. Realize that

I have trouble basing everything on TiaM's "claim", but I am going to trust it for now, because I do not think scum!TiaM has any reason not to claim night immunity for N1. I was sort of afraid of a BP-claim, but it didn't come.

Why was it so important for me to know that TiaM wasn't BP/commuter etc N1?
Because IF I assumed that Eddie was scum, visiting TiaM for a NK (and for specifically that) N1, there had to be a reason why TiaM (rb) didn't die.
I wanted to eliminate this simple step before continuing.
(There also has to be an explanation for Sunlit dying N1, and we should be fairly certain now that it was a scum-kill. SK was novice and I think most agreed that Vig could be too much)

Now I have already said I don't believe there to be any more protective/NK-immune roles other than Dunkers confirmed commuter, and either FL with his roleblockings and such or Eddie with Doc'ing.
It just feels excessive. So if you want to discredit this post or me overall, this is the first point to attack.

Logical path A: . Notice that this path also suggests that frog is a town watcher, because Eddies claim was first, and frogs claimed night-actions support it. In this path Eddie is town, so scum!frog has absolutely no reason to back him up, when he could just avoid claiming anything on Eddies actions, rather than confirm them.
Eddies first action as Doc is to visit rb, and that also makes sense to me. He would want to protect the most obvious townie to him, and the most valuable player in his eyes. This path makes 100% sense to me as is and could also be the explanation for the consecutive no-kills. (as rb and frog are both very believable targets to me on those specific nights)

Logical path B: . Now this is the weirdest possibility to me personally, but since it is allowed in normal games, I covered it in my mind. This would mean that N1 Eddie tried to save TiaM as scum too. I have reason to believe that unlimited-Doc in scums hands would want to keep his partner alive in a game where SK/Vig is a possibility, and therefore I believe that . The chances of getting towncred from saving town!TiaM N1 from a kill, from a role he didn't know existed for sure? Not reasonable, considering his partner could use the saving in the 1% chance his partner gets capped by the same potential Vig. This is the least likely path in my mind, but there is a chance, and in the case where Eddie would be forced to flip a scum doc, we would definitely need to go for TiaM next, so easy game from there.

Logical path C:

FCK FCK FCK. HIT SUBMIT. WILL CONTINUE FROM C NEXT!

Logical path C: This path automatically makes either frog or Eddie scum. I have already stated in path B that IF Eddie is scum!doctor, I believe TiaM is almost automatically his buddy, so this would mean frog is town. It is possible though, that scum!frog claimed that FL wasn't r-blocked last night to strongly implicate his scumbuddy Eddie, and thus gain a huge distance in the scenario where Eddie gets lynched. Yet again though, I feel like this is more sub-optimal for scum!frog.
Understand, that this would still give town!FL the same result about a town!Eddie. This is also probably the worst scenario for Town moving forward, because there is no way for us to confirm it today, and it would mean that scum has a roleblocker to use for later nights. This also means, that if we lynch Eddie and he flips town, there is still a chance for FL to also flip town. And frog can't be made to fake his watch-action for next night, because he has claimed an odd-night role..
Doc-Eddies night actions do.

Logical path D: This claim makes the least sense combined with scum!alignment (with the given night actions). So scum!FL would have lied about them, or fake-claimed altogether. Therefore this isn't a scenario worth even observing, unless we have a rolecop investigation on him that confirms his role (?). JOAT could do so many things on any given night, that we have no reason to speculate what scum!FLeafJOAT would have done in this game so far.

Where does this leave me?
Assume that we are left with 50/50 about FL and Eddie. Assume that we can accept either of their roles to be true.

we risk losing our Doc, who could potentially save someone on a future night (though not very likely anymore). And in the scenario where he flips town, we still don't know
which lied, frog or FlavorLeaf. What we then have to value is whether scum has a roleblocker (frog is scum) or FlavorLeaf lied (is much scum).

we don't lose any night actions (all have been used). In the scenario where he flips town, we still don't know which lied, frog or Eddie. At this point we have to value whether scum has a roleblocker (frog is scum), or Eddie is scum (as proved by LoyalLeafs flip.)

we don't lose any night actions the following night (not odd-night). In the scenario where frog flips town, we get confirmation on FL not being roleblocked. And this leaves scum as either FL+? or Eddie+TiaM. And since I have a hunch that we still have an investigative role unclaimed (which is why I didn't want massclaims yet!!) we can confirm either pair the following night. Also the scum would have to leave our doc alive (in the scenario where Eddie is doc) or confirm us that FL is scum. So we gain information any way.

I would lynch either frog(least risk imo) or FL (lesser risk) today, but not Eddie in any scenario for now.

Discuss and bash me if you feel like I'm full of shit, I go to sleep now and return in ~8 hours if I can.

Eddie and fl both claim to have protected frog, fl on night 2 and eddie on night 3. Why was there no nightkill twice if they're both town and frog is scum? Why did scum!frog decide to no-kill twice?

this game is probably making me take a break from mafia for a little whole, so thanks. I'm now going to operate under the assumption that I'm getting mislynched for the first time in over 20 town games and I am normally confident but honestly with this game I don't care anymore. nobody even attempted to reply to my explained play, it was skipped over even though i have literally played around everything I've said and have the evidence to support it. nobody actually cares to read it, so whatever.

flavor is such obvious scum im dumbfounded how people aren't seeing it and nobody is even trying to say WHY I'm scummier. first off, his claim is not a role that would ever be made. two protective and an investigative isn't a combination that will ever happen. he has admitted to roleblockong a town pr because he is the mafia roleblocker and wanted an out. since apparently thor and frog are experienced, they, along with vedith, apparently are going to pretend they don't have the experience to know this combination is not a thing. awesome. let's ignore thst for a second. lets also ignore an investigative and two protective not only doesn't exist with a doc but it also somewhat contrasts with even night watcher. let's also ignore flavors magical explanation for the lack of a nk last night is that scum recruited a traitor. let's ignore how exceedingly rare recruitable traitors are - after all, nobody here gets setups anyways. let's ignore how flavor is doing exactly what I said by killing frog since he clearly intended to fake a guilty on me. let's ignore thst the only reason town isn't losing is because I've stopped two kills. let's ignore that rb is obv town regardless and thinking he's scum is laughable. lets ignore flavor shoved the mislynch of a vig down our throats. yes, Mario flipped sk. no, mafia didn't know he was sk and therefore to them it was another mislynch. remember how flavor leaf quickhammered a town pr yesterday before a claim immediately after the 5th vote? sounds pretty scummy, right? let's ignore that too because this game is special. he clearly would've had to explain that, unless he was going to get lynched anyways... awfully convenient he returns from that with a guilty. let's ignore that. i townread flavor up until day 3, and even day 3 it wasn't a strong sr or anything. I'm not going to pretend his earlier content is obvious scum to me, even though mulch/Mario clearly saw it. there is obvious stuff with hindsight I can bring up if needed. why should you vote flavor over me if we ignore every other logical reason? i have single handedly carried town with rb getting fed up with you. my actions make perfect sense and so does my play which I went in great detail to explain. i coudlnt try hard before today at risk of nk. there were no other good buffers. if you seriously think I'm scum after rereading my play with what i said in mind, I don't expect you to listen to any of the above.

first of all. twoinamillion. you're new. and I mean NEW. in some dead pt you said you setup specced having never played forum mafia before or something like that. you need to listen to me. your claim might not help game solve, nom you are town so you claim last. your claim is needed for swtup spec purposes. we need to be able to analyze how balanced the setup is. the nrg approves the same level balance roughly and with a pr refusing to claim you are only hurting town. the nks are already lined up, me if I'm not mislynched today and frog after/if I'm lynched. you have nothing to lose. i saved you, and rb is one of the towniest games I've ever seen. i know you're town. you need to claim though. and another thing: you are being a dumbass when it comes to voting me. sorry, its true. vca is one of the most manipulatable things there are for scum and any good player will tell you that. ask around if you don't believe me. not only that, but ironically, flavours voting is worse than me ANYWAYS. day 1 I voted the mislynch who self hammered while I was offline after being ran up while offline... and flavor was voting the counter wagon aka sd... who was ALSO TOWN. why is being on one town lynch worse than the other? this is ignoring I was not even supporting said lynch strongly and again it happened while I was offline. day 2 he lynches sk. THAT'S NOT A SCUM LYNCH FOR VCA PURPOSES. you have to remember scum had literally no idea an sk existed. any potential scum that pushed Mario do not get rewarded for hitting an sk. actually, they do, because sk hurts scum as much as town (i don't remember actual stats). day 3, I vote dunker explicitly for a claim which I say. flavor hammers him the post after the l1 vote. no warning, intent, not even a fake accident. yet you're voting me for my votes? seriously dude. i get you're new. i have nothing against you as a person. I'm not even going to omgus you because you're lock town. please, please, try thinking logically. you need to put more thought here because this is probably whether scum wins or loses.

today, after we finish our mass claim with rb slot going last you can lynch in me and flavor. first of all, after I flip town you powerlynch flavor and then powerlynch wave. do not discuss your reads for the final scum assuming the game doesn't end. dont let scum know who they should night kill. in the very off chance wave flips town (I'm close to certain he's scum) Paul is scum. i genuinely can't force myself to see wave as town and that more than likely makes him scum. whhats cute is in 1786 flavor even acknowledges wave saving him. if people actually see logic and I know my effort won't be wasted, and we get some intents to vote fl, I'll case wave and rip the fuck into him.

my words to town after my likely mislynch. NEVER EVER LYNCH FROG AND TWOINAMILLION HERE. scum is in {flavor, wave, Paul, thor, una, gr}. flavor is undeniably one of them I don't have the time to hard iso for the partners atm even though I need to today since I'm getting lynched or nkd. i am fairly sure una is town because I doubt he takes his push on me earlier and defends me now. i need game replacement to start posting because he's the last hope I have for an experienced player (hey flavor I'm pocketing him xD) to set y'all straight. could be scum, haven't seen his scum game in fucking ages but I don't believe idling is a scum tell for him. hope his catchuo is good. my main reason for townreading him and thor is that I think the team is flavor/wave/paul. the last spot is the tossup. Paul has only been sheeping me on some parts... flipped town. that soesnt mean much as a stand alone. notice how he was on flavor and wave defended him? classic spreading. Paul voting me today is the most damning. he knows the quality of my play as prs, knows the quality of my reads, and the quick vote of me with almost nothing said means he's probably scum. i will guarantee the team is {flavor}, {wave/paul} and someone else including one of them. I'll try reading them as a team if I have time at some point. seriously listen to me. i get there's scenarios where i didnt heal rb n2. he is still town hard and if you lynch that slot... lol.

and as for all of my omgus. i have nothing against any of you, please don't feel bad about my posts, its not personal. i am used to playing with people who are a lot more experienced. i don't know who's actually playing horribly until post game. we can talk about it there if you want. the thing is, even if you did play horrible, its fine. lynching me is fine. people start somewhere. i havent been mislynched in like 20 town games and usually im confident but here i think my lynch will hapoen. thats perfectly ok. please actually learn from this game though. don't go to post and say "well Eddie swore a lot and it's his fault he got lynched". say "damn, I fucked up. I'll take what went wrong here to my future games". that much is enough to make this a bad game vs you a bad player. you can call this paragraph ate if ya want but I don't enjoy making games toxic as I have been a bit.

can i get a tldr?

I think una said that fl is trying to get our doc lynched somewhere in that wall. fl claimed b4 eddie (pretty sure he did) so thats not the case

I am vanilla townie, I was hoping to deflect a night kill but that won't happen now I guess.

In post 3092, NotTheRealPaul wrote:can i get a tldr?

no. read it. it's important.

In post 3067, UnaBombaH wrote:

In post 3065, wavemode wrote:

Dude, the crux here is that FL is loyal and got no result on Eddie

, and frog watched FL and saw that he was not roleblocked. JK targetting eddie doesn't change that situation. Rolestopper targetting eddie could have caused it, but then you have the question of, if nobody in town claims Rolestopper (I'm pretty sure if anyone was one they would say so... twoina says his role has nothing to do with this situation so I doubt he is one), then it's a mafia Rolestopper who protected him, which is still suspicious AF.

Dude, the crux here is that FL could be lying.
Eddie or Flavor Leaf is basically 1v1 at this point.

And there shouldn't be scenario where all of them are town.
If FL speaks the truth, and he tried to check Eddie and got a no-result, it means Eddie is different alignment from Leaf.
If Eddie speaks the truth, Flavor is scum trying to get our Doc lynched.

pedit: alright i shall

I have ran this through my head all day, and all I need to get writing is a claim from TwoInAMillion.
All I want.

wasnt the wall post lol. but here it is. i wasnt tryna make up stuff seeee

alright fines i read

*sigh*

be back in a day or two when i finally finish

In post 3093, NotTheRealPaul wrote:I think una said that fl is trying to get our doc lynched somewhere in that wall. fl claimed b4 eddie (pretty sure he did) so thats not the case

none of this is true. he tried to get me lynched, not the doc. the distinction is that I was the target as a player and not a role. he did not full claim before me.

uh. that doesnt invalidate anything. like i was pointing out una was wrong when he said fl was tryna get doc lynch. like the implication from una is that once fl found out ur role he was tryna lynch u but im pointing out he had his guilty and mentioned it before u said u were doc.

heck he was even softing back on d2.