Mafiascum.net

If you aren't playing Sona aggressively you're wrong

Ok with Sona the only thing you're doing is healing and making things run and maybe getting two Qs before you run out of mana. Your only form of engaging, your only form of real CC is your ulti, an unreliable skillshot

Nah, Sona maxes Q and powerchord-Qs until the enemy team can't engage and is zoned out of cs. Then you get kills when they get frustrated and try to engage anyway.

If you're just using her for sustain, then you're using a Soraka that heals more poorly and whose healing-associated armor doesn't last as long. Her poke is really powerful at the very early levels that determine who dominates the lane.

iecerint is correct

In post 30977, Iecerint wrote:Nah, Sona maxes Q and powerchord-Qs until the enemy team can't engage and is zoned out of cs. Then you get kills when they get frustrated and try to engage anyway.

lol

which support are you going to be doing that against? nunu? malpite? mundo?

i can assure you that if sona is trying to go aggressive and get Qs on the enemies she's going to be taking a crapton of more dmg that she's then just going to have to waste her mana trying to heal up, not to mention almost every support can then end up cc her when she wants to get close.

edit: actually nunu can heal right back up, malphite has a shield that should be up and blocks all of sona's dmg she can dish out in one rotation, and mundo's health regen will probably end up outweighing sona's mana bar.

I mean, there's a reason sona isn't played much atm (other supports poke better than her while not having less health than a minion). That doesn't mean that if you pick Sona, you should be sitting back and burning mana using your heal which does basically nothing.

In post 30980, quadz08 wrote:I mean, there's a reason sona isn't played much atm (other supports poke better than her while not having less health than a minion). That doesn't mean that if you

do

pick Sona, you should be sitting back and burning mana using your heal which does basically nothing.

A good sona can give her team too many free auras with items while pushing the team to victory. I had a nice winrate with her last season but I dont play her that often because sometimes I find her boring compared to my main (leona ap mid, Leona ad/bruiser Top, Leona Jungle Tank, Leona support randombuild, Leona ADC) ALL IN RANKED

And your points about sona are why everyone plays karma. KARMAAAAAAAA!

But seriously, when it comes to poke vs hard-engage (leaving sustain/disengage/puretank supports out of this crap), hard-engage is easier to pull off if your opponent is awful, but poke is easier if your opponent is actually trying to play their support.

Morgana: Go in whenever she misses a Q; you can sustain any return poke and will out-trade even without it
Thresh: Go in whenever he misses a Q; your aa/q outrange his aa/E
Blitz: Go in whenever he misses a Q, free hits
Leona: Go in whenever she misses an E, free hits

Nami: Just go in. Be mindful of her Q, but you can go in when it's up if you're comfy dodging it.
Soraka: You can lose these if she uses her silence correctly, but a lot of them just use E on cooldown, anyway.

Annie: She outranges you (550 v 625)), but your ability to sustain against her should let you come out ahead unless her ADC is much better at harassment than your ADC
Zyra: Similar to Annie; I don't really see her much, though

The only really scary support is Lulu. It's hard to keep safe from her poke with positioning, or I at least don't know how to. Karma is also bad just because she's even stronger than you at level 1, so it will be too dangerous for you to do your job if she hits you even once early on.

Leona cannot pop her own passive so she's worthless in a solo lane tyvm

In post 30984, chesskid3 wrote:Leona cannot pop her own passive so she's worthless in a solo lane tyvm

So much this. Leona has no passive in solo lanes unless being camped by the jungler, and that's what makes Leona's burst so strong. Without her passive she'll be outtraded by most meta toplaners, if they can bait out her eclipse.

In post 30983, Iecerint wrote:Morgana: Go in whenever she misses a Q; you can sustain any return poke and will out-trade even without it
Thresh: Go in whenever he misses a Q; your aa/q outrange his aa/E
Blitz: Go in whenever he misses a Q, free hits
Leona: Go in whenever she misses an E, free hits

So... play sona when you know you're facing an idiot, or?

Your scenarios rely on the other support being bad, how is that a point in Sona's favor..

In post 30983, Iecerint wrote:Soraka: You can lose these if she uses her silence correctly, but a lot of them just use E on cooldown, anyway.

Better sustain, better harass in close range, a silence?

In post 30983, Iecerint wrote:Annie: She outranges you (550 v 625)), but your ability to sustain against her should let you come out ahead unless her ADC is much better at harassment than your ADC
Zyra: Similar to Annie; I don't really see her much, though

There is absolutely no way an equally skilled sona can beat out an equally skilled annie or zyra. Especially zyra, she's destroy you so hard.

It's pretty trivial to dodge Morgana/Blitz/Thresh hooks in lane. Just stand behind minions and ward the bush and you're set (or keep away from the bush as appropriate). Playing against them relies on dodging their skillshots regardless of who you're playing as; it's not specifically a point in Sona's favor, but it's how you deal with them regardless of who you're playing as.

Sona has better harass than Soraka in lane; her Q alone deals more damage than Soraka's Q starting at rank 2, and that's ignoring Sona's passive, which is a huge source of her damage. But it's true that Soraka can deal with that by using Silence intelligently, which is why I explicitly referenced it. It's also true that Soraka can do more damage in an extended skirmish, but that's not how you win lane as Sona, anyway -- you win at level 1 and then hold that advantage until your ADC has a sufficient cs advantage.

If I have the math right (I'm waiting for a program to finish running, so I have plenty of time to kill), Annie deals 148 damage at level 1; Sona deals 240 damage at level 1 and picks up sustain at level 2. It's not particularly difficult to get your standard early advantage here. (I'm ignoring runes/masteries/resistances and assuming a Spellthief for both.)

Zyra I would imagine has the same challenges as Lulu. I've only seen like 2 of these in my life, so I don't know a lot about it.

I am not saying that Sona is OP or that I am a Sona master or even at all good at the game, but I think the path to winning lane is pretty clear.

suck it ani braum can w to a minion

Top lane braum lets goooooooo

I think all the plat+ support mains on MS will agree that Sona is very powerful. Everyone sans Iec/Quadz who's talked so far doesn't know what they're talking about.

Iec described the play pattern, except there's also a lot of holes for free harass you can take against most ADCs/supports if you know how to time harass during attack animations, use minions, etc. The issue is yeah, you can't really do full-on trading, but if you're playing Sona right, every time you harass, it's basically free.

According to LoLking, she's the second highest win rate support right now, and I know where she ranks by Riot's internal numbers (which tend to be slightly different)

The advantage to Sona is that she wins an even trade, and the early powerchord damage is kind of bonkers.
It's not hard to stand behind the minion wave and Q.

Solo lane braum is worthless because two of his skills are non-offensive. Take a hypertank like Malphite and it's basically the same thing but you'll actually be able to win lane.

Sona is really bad in all-in lanes though. Chances are likely she'll die if she gets jumped or hit by a Leona/Thresh/Blitz/Morgana, and all aside of Blitz are popular right now

In post 30970, quadz08 wrote:I wasn't intending to say that Thresh was unbalanced, though I can see why that would be assumed. I'm just saying that some champions are inherently more useful regardless of numbers.

Why yes, different champions do have different amounts of utility. Which is why numbers exist.

Sona has positive match ups against Morg and Thresh.

Sona's only bad match ups are Leona and Blitz (Taric would also be a bad matchup if he weren't chronically UP).

(You should never get hit by morg and thresh Q. Blitz at least has a way to force-engage on you with W->E or W->Q)

Well yeah, if you have perfect positioning, by all means, play Sona. Most of us don't though

then that's not an inherent flaw of the champion. that's just you being bad.

yep

In post 30996, MrZepher wrote:then that's not an inherent flaw of the champion. that's just you being bad.

Yeah sure sure. I'm sure people getting hit by a madlife hook are bad as well.

In post 30995, KaleiÐoscøpe wrote:Well yeah, if you have perfect positioning, by all means, play Sona. Most of us don't though

It's hardly "perfect positioning" to stand behind minions or out of their range (or 1000+ range off the morg q, because that shit's slow enough that you probably can dodge it even without mind gaming it).