In post 3078, Nako wrote:Gamma did not jump off from the wagon on scum when he could.
When Gamma commits to a bus, he often stays on the wagon for a long period of time. This actually should be concerning given that when Gamma is town he tends to move his vote around a bit more. You should look at how Gamma treats texcat and Golden Robster in NY213.
When presented with two EoD wagons, one on a scumbuddy (Whemestar) and one on town (incidentally, PenguinPower), Gamma opts to bus:
In post 3267, WhemeStar wrote:and a game I self hammered as doctor because I was frustrated that people didn’t believe my claim because I didn’t claim flavor?
Get your bs out of here
So when your frustrated as town you care about what happens after you get lynched? When your not frustrated all you care about is surviving?
mhm thinking about it it's actually very similar to his first newbie and yet he's playing different
nah fuck dis s*** I think wheme is actually scum VOTE: Whemestar
During a CFD, Gamma joins a Texcat wagon here:
In post 5983, Gamma Emerald wrote:VOTE: texcat
eh after a mite of meta I think tex has a decent chance of being scum
and stays on it despite there being two other potential end of day wagons.
and in a later dayphases busses here:
In post 6722, Gamma Emerald wrote:VOTE: Golden Robster
I don't understand people backing off of this, why, because he gave up and self-voted? That's a pot of WiFoM and you know it.
and stays on it until he is lynched.
Gamma in that game bussed literally everyone on his scum team at some point (he also bussed Wheme), and did so in two situations where there were serious other wagons presented for the days lynch.
That is to say, thinking that Gamma will not bus consistently and bus early as scum is misguided.
In fact I think the reason Gamma *moved off Penguin* is precisely because *we were going to jail Gamma*. This is the point at which Gamma had to *stop his bus*. And that's why his vote on Mew makes no sense from a town PoV and is for nonsensical reasons. *He had to get off Penguin because if Penguin got lynched and he was jailed and investigated, he was losing the game*.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:43 pm
by Gamma Emerald
Let’s note I was fake-skeptical as hell of the Wheme wagon for a long time
I set up my busses. And honestly I had to bus because my team there was dead weight (aside from GRob).
My main experience with A50 is in Mini 2040, and if you think I would push for a night 1 kill on him if I was scum here, after that game, you would be mistaken. Conversely, YOUR scumteam opted for an early kill on A50 in NY213 due to him being townread.
My main experience with A50 is in Mini 2040, and if you think I would push for a night 1 kill on him if I was scum here, after that game, you would be mistaken. Conversely, YOUR scumteam opted for an early kill on A50 in NY213 due to him being townread.
Actually it was because I was concerned about his read on me that game
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:48 pm
by skitter30
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:50 pm
by DVa
In post 3091, Nako wrote:I am willing to vote DVA at the moment.
So to be clear, if I understand your current concerns, they are:
a) I did not always push wagons on scum on d1
b) Gamma bussed a lot
In regard to a, I don't know what you expect. Most of my pushes on d1 were reaction tests, which did, over time, help me sort DDL a bit better, but not at the point of the game at which our unexplained wagon on DDL was better than our unexplained wagon on Radja. I wanted to be able to sort Radja, and I think us moving off and on of that wagon for poor reasons is probably why Mew was so skeptical of me throughout the game. Frankly, I think we should have stayed on Radja until we got a proper response from Mew. Day 1 play is not about always being on scum, it is about sorting, and I was trying to *sort*. I had to sort because I did not *already know who the scum were*.
Frankly it is way more plausible that Gamma would move from bus to bus because Gamma knew who the scum team were and could play toward a strategy of cross-bussing. I could not do that because I did not know who the scum were.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:59 pm
by Nako
Gamma's constincency for voting scum at D1 pinged me as well. It's almost like he knew who the scumteam were.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:01 pm
by Gamma Emerald
I find DVa’s last post laughable. I’ll post why if I need to but a close read should reveal the problem.
Very good question lol, I've been thinking about this, especially cause I don't like 2 of the votes on the wagon
overall, I'd say... how do I put this... "I
don't not
want to lynch PP." ya, I feel like compared to Diffusion of Power, where he was in fact mislynched on day 1, he feels... very passive and not nearly as aggressive. even so, compared to Epic Duel, where he was NOT mislynched day 1, but was a leading candidate, it seems... a bit closer? ugh. really, he seems tonally different. a lot more willing to kinda talk through his reads.
He seems more reserved and, as Gamma-chan said, lolcatty.
Between the two, I feel like he is dissimilar enough to both town games that my suspicions have not been abated and I believe he has decent scum equity.
There are other candidates.
>Tyrion is not really playing to his town meta imo, and if he is, then he should be lynched so he starts playing d1s again. I would accept a mislynch on a town Tyrion based on his play here, and I would be pissed if he was scum and we gave him a free pass.
>BEF is very much within his range as scum, his votes have seemed a bit survivalistic and opportunistic, and I think he is capable of deeper reasoning as town
So I guess right now I would prefer PP but I'm not really dead set on him. He seems like a solid wagon all things considered.
Very good post. DVa is town.
Would DVa do meta read on their partner while she tried hard to save DDl?
I don't think it's likely.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:22 pm
by DVa
Actually that kinda reminds me, the way Gamma distances from DDL+PP here is very similar to how Gamma busses Wheme and Texcat in the posts I quoted earlier. I think it's a weird tic for Gamma that when he busses or distances he very frequently relies on unexplained meta arguments.
In post 284, DVa wrote:Gamma where are you on PenguinGifs, Sephora, and BearAvatar?
PenguinGifs would like to see more of, for some reason want to say Town
Sephora Idk
BearAvatar I don’t find anything particularly town indicative from them and I feel like that’s a bit scum!odd, though that’s based on meta that could be wrong
Apart from my love of gifs, why is your vote serious?
The meta point against you felt semi-valid, plus you reacted like typical caught scum when you saw that point (hence why the gifs/pics are a scum thing)
In post 1169, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yea I did. The thing that swayed me was the gifs. And they may be NAI normally but the timing tells me something else.
What does the timing tell you? I've been using them since post one.
You have been using them since post one but they were sprinkled in. After the meta point it was a rush of gifs.
That is, as scum, Gamma tends to bus and distance his scumbuddies through underexplained "meta" discussions. 342 is the closest he gets to substance and even then he barely scratches the surface. This kinda gives me the sense that Gamma will, as scum, use meta arguments to give the impression that he is thinking about a player slot beyond the context of just this game, but since he already knows their alignment and actually reading those games would be pointless and boring, he can't really engage in a substantive discussion of the points involved or really explain his reasoning in detail.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:27 pm
by Nako
In post 1263, Gamma Emerald wrote:Argh this is a good point but I don’t want to let my gut go ignored
This feels like fake interaction.
Pedit: Yes DVa, Gamma used meta arguments for busses in that game and he did the same thing as well.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:29 pm
by Nako
Gamma, can you show me the games where you used meta arguments as town?
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:32 pm
by Gamma Emerald
Okay can we note how previously Nako was pretty much confbiasing towards DVa but is not confbiasing towards me? Also, in general Nako wanting to lynch one of us before FHerPOV confscum Penguin is sketchy. I had noticed that around the time I asked Nako who she wanted to lynch. I was hoping to get a response before dropping that but it seems it won’t happen for a long time. UNVOTE:
I need to think here. It’d be really weird if DVa wasn’t scum, but I don’t recall Kokichi being very active today so it’s possible it’s Nako + Kokichi.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:33 pm
by Gamma Emerald
In post 3112, Nako wrote:Gamma, can you show me the games where you used meta arguments as town?
I can probably find some. Any parameters?
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:36 pm
by Nako
Recent would be great.
Also, yesterday I was active at the same time with Kokichi, why would I waste our time and not vote one of you?
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:38 pm
by Nako
I am not voting PP because that would create the same scenario but in F3.
Also I am preventing Kokichi from gamthrowing by picking between you.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:41 pm
by Nako
Gamma is trying to make it look like he can be partners with DVa because he knows he is going to get lynched.
Maybe Nako is just responding to these and that’s why they’re focusing on me vs DVa. Still sketchy if so as it looks too concerned about that potential for Kokichi to go after her.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:46 pm
by Nako
If Kokichi is town then he votes me, it is GG for scum (Since PP is always mafia and there are 1 mafia between you and DVa)
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:51 pm
by Gamma Emerald
If those are all true yes. If no one hammers however then it’s between you and Kokichi.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:55 pm
by Nako
Kokichi is the lockest town because of his meta (It was his town meta so much that Joey claimed masons with him and Joey told he can read Kokichi good)
Also Kokichi can't be scum with PP and if he was scum with another persob, he would want me to vote PP (since I was convinced to do that, he could win by saying nothing)
The fact that you unvoted DVa (conf scum to you) to put your vote on a WIFOM target confirmed you as scum and I will leave in few minutes.
I might vote you before leaving.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:56 pm
by Nako
In post 3121, Nako wrote:Kokichi is the lockest town because of his meta (It was his town meta so much that Joey claimed masons with him and Joey told he can read Kokichi good)
Also Kokichi can't be scum with PP and if he was scum with another persob, he would want me to vote PP (since I was convinced to do that, he could win by saying nothing)
The fact that you unvoted DVa (conf scum to you) to put your vote on a WIFOM target confirmed you as scum and I will leave in few minutes.
I might vote you before leaving.
I'm not even mentioning the possibility of scum doctor is very low because of balance of the game. Kokichi had a GS green.
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:56 pm
by Gamma Emerald
I invited because I wanted to take a step back and evaluate.
Anyway, guess I’ll work on that towncase even if it’s not for you anymore
In post 3121, Nako wrote:Kokichi is the lockest town because of his meta (It was his town meta so much that Joey claimed masons with him and Joey told he can read Kokichi good)
Also Kokichi can't be scum with PP and if he was scum with another persob, he would want me to vote PP (since I was convinced to do that, he could win by saying nothing)
The fact that you unvoted DVa (conf scum to you) to put your vote on a WIFOM target confirmed you as scum and I will leave in few minutes.
I might vote you before leaving.
I'm not even mentioning the possibility of scum doctor is very low because of balance of the game. Kokichi had a GS green.
Why is odds of scum doctor low? Vig and JK are powerful town roles, GS is well used in the hands of an experienced player, and Voyeur is honestly low power but has the ability to verify or deny night action claims.
So why do you think scum has no counter to all of that? If you think they do have a counter, what do you think it is?
