Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm good with this actually. HEM is a second but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.
VOTE: Malcom

[MalcolmTucker]

If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

Is this a slip?

Nah that was a typo. Meant if Jackson isn't.

[MalcolmTucker]

It wouldn't make sense for it to be a slip anyway - I wouldn't be questioning "if" someone were mafia if I was on the team myself.

[MalcolmTucker]

My logic was basically if HEM comes back town, we eliminate Jackson next, so there'll be little lost from us saving HEM this turn anyway.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm good with this actually. HEM is a second but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.
VOTE: Malcom

Why would you go from wanting an immediate elimination to backing off?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm good with this actually. HEM is a second but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.
VOTE: Malcom

Why would you go from wanting an immediate elimination to backing off?

1. Never wanted an immediate elimination.
2. I suggest actually reading the game.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm good with this actually. HEM is a second but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.
VOTE: Malcom

Why would you go from wanting an immediate elimination to backing off?

1. Never wanted an immediate elimination.
2. I suggest actually reading the game.

Sorry I'm a bit all over the place here, I see you did say you didn't want this on the previous page. Apologies.

[ItalianoVD]

If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

Is this a slip?

Nah that was a typo. Meant if Jackson isn't.

If Jackson isn't? That doesn't really make sense to me. That's very interesting wording in 3088

[Gamma Emerald]

still think HEM is scum
his mala push D1 doesn't feel like it was in good faith

[MalcolmTucker]

If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

Is this a slip?

Nah that was a typo. Meant if Jackson isn't.

If Jackson isn't? That doesn't really make sense to me. That's very interesting wording in 3088

Sorry my brain is genuinely all over the place today and I'm not reading back my posts properly before posting them. My logic is as follows.

1. We should eliminate HEM because HEM is probably mafia, albeit happy to hold off on the elimination for a while.
2. If HEM comes back as town, that's unfortunate, but we eliminate Jackson if that's the case. But I doubt HEM does come back town.
3. Ergo, HEM's appeal that they're town doesn't really move me, because in a 1v1 they're best choice to be eliminated.

Hence I agree with Jackson's comment that going for a 1v1 does not make sense if they are mafia.

[MathBlade]

So here’s what I want:
HEM scum and JV town and JV is right on his read.

My prior experience says that JV has done this exact same thing as scum before (Yellowstone) and I can’t tell the difference.

So I am not sure if that is reality.

I think the right play is to elim HEM but I want to review that game to try to ease my paranoia.

VOTE: Unvote

[Roden]

Why would we chain elim JV if HEM flipped town? He already said it was just a gambit and that he doesn't actually have a guilty, this isn't a 1v1. That's basically like saying to vote out whoever has incorrect reads, if that's the only reason to vote out JV on a green HEM flip.

[Roden]

There's not really any way we can go wrong here as town unless HEM were town and to gain some unique insight from rereading the whole thing. If HEM comes back town we go for Jackson next. If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

Is this a slip?

Nah that was a typo. Meant if Jackson isn't.

Where does "if Jackson isn't" fit into that post?

[Roden]

I'm struggling to see HEM as scum here. His reaction to getting "guilty'd" is wildly different than Andres' was. HEM claimed right away, Andres didn't (probably to ask in the scum PT what to fake claim). His anger feels genuine, but it doesn't feel like a "I'm mad I got caught" attitude, but more annoyed that he got shoved into a corner just because someone lied and he can't be around to defend himself.

I also feel like we mind melded early on, I thought maybe he was just pocketing me but he showed that concern first, and it felt real when he wrote that. Tbh I'm not sure what he gains from pocketing me anyway since I was under heavy suspicion Day 1 and I didn't have much influence over the game state, and I ended up backing off of the scum reads we both shared. The slots he's been pushing don't feel like opportunistic pushes either, I feel like he would've backed off of Mala and Leaf/Gamma when he saw they weren't going through if he was scum, but his insistence on pushing there makes it seem like he feels that he's onto something and everyone else just doesn't see it.

HEM stop making excuses for bad play

bad play?

i'm doing my best here

i really resent how you always try to manipulate me by saying im a bad player

This also felt real.

[Roden]

Also I think this kill confirms that scum don't have a Roleblocker.

It would've been easy to get Koopa mis-elim'd by just blocking them every night and letting them cause chaos with their day play.

Though maybe they didn't think Koopa was actually all that chaotic, potentially because their reads were actually accurate or someone on the scum team got spooked once they revealed they were Koba all along.

This legit sounds like a post in the scumchat. Also, why block a pr when you can just kill it, hence why koopa is dead.

And yeah I’m doing this.

VOTE: Nk15

Sussy baka.

VOTE: Andresvmb

Guilty!

Like why is this being just blindly trusted?

VOTE: NK15

1 for 1.

Yeah I think Italiano fucked up there. I don't want to go in depth into casing him yet, but he was defending the slot before Andres replaced in as well.

I also think I feel comfortable parking here now: VOTE: Salad

What kind of pressure do you expect to give on a slot that has done nothing. I’ve seen scum do this countless times. I’ve done it myself. As scum, you don’t want to ruffle too many feathers and most times you feel fine going after players that won’t put up a fight or appear to not be able to put up a fight. This is scum 101.

Also let's not forget that this happened yesterday.

[ItalianoVD]

What happened?

[ItalianoVD]

Oh I voted NK15 thinking he was pulling a scum gambit on his partner? A vote I rescinded and a point I clarified with someone who is used to playing with scum!NK? That?

[ItalianoVD]

And sure if you wanna frame it like I was ‘defending’ the slot you can. My actual point was, it was a waste of a vote because there was a high chance nothing would come of it. Nice shade by the way.

I’d still like to go for Roden and/or Kitty once we figure out what’s going on with HEM.

[MathBlade]

And sure if you wanna frame it like I was ‘defending’ the slot you can. My actual point was, it was a waste of a vote because there was a high chance nothing would come of it. Nice shade by the way.

I’d still like to go for Roden and/or Kitty once we figure out what’s going on with HEM.

Can you explain your thoughts please?

This feels like it assumes HEM scum, while I think it’s likely, I don’t like it’s a foregone conclusion in your post.

Assume HEM is town. Then what are your reads?

[Roden]

Oh I voted NK15 thinking he was pulling a scum gambit on his partner? A vote I rescinded and a point I clarified with someone who is used to playing with scum!NK? That?

It's a weird order of events.

NK15: "I have a guilty on Andres" *votes Andres*
Italiano: "Roden scum slipped" *votes NK15*
Andres: "I'm town" *votes NK15*

It doesn't even make sense to vote NK15 here first. You only considered two worlds here: it was either a scum gambit and they were both scum, or Andres was just caught and NK15 was town. Andres is scum in both worlds, so why did you vote NK15? If you thought he could've been bussing, why not just...let him bus?

And sure if you wanna frame it like I was ‘defending’ the slot you can. My actual point was, it was a waste of a vote because there was a high chance nothing would come of it. Nice shade by the way.

I’d still like to go for Roden and/or Kitty once we figure out what’s going on with HEM.

I'm not framing anything. You blatantly defended flipped scum after they got hit with a guilty. You didn't say anything about your suspicions of a scum gambit until later on, you just shaded me then voted NK15 without addressing the guilty, or really even accusing NK15 of anything.

Feel free to scum case me though. I've been waiting for one, but all you've done all game is call me scum and complain that everyone is bad if they don't vote me.

[Roden]

Anyway for now my hot take fresh off the press…

Scum team: koopa, Roden, Scorpious.

Honestly if I wasn’t leaning toward Flavor Leaf being town I’d think he and koopa were partners.

I think Mala is the LHF for today.

Well off to bed y’all everyone have a great night!

If no one sees Roden is scum here you’re not trying. Koopa what are you on brother?

Do me a favor and vote Roden. Okay?

Why do you townread mala?

Can you stop asking the same questions expecting a different answer? Mala is townread period. Not universally, but enough that she shouldn’t be the lim today. We are going for Roden today.

Why is roden wolf?

Don’t ask questions. Just follow. Vote Roden.

Like this has been ad nauseam. Your reads have been wrong and you aren't bothering to explain them.

[Roden]

Personally, I think Roden's the best fade today.

Gives loads of information, good chance of scum, most of the game doesn't get their point, and theyre just pushing like I flipped a narrative, when I really didn't.

Everyone else I can make a bigger case for being town, such as HEM, such as Mala, even NK15 has a stronger town case than Roden.

But there is a lot of good discussion to have on all those other slots that we likely can come to better conclusions with extra flips and a Night Kill + PR actions.

I think Roden's just the overall best fade today.

Let's kill HEM (:

Yeah let’s not.

Why?

I think he’s town.

This one also needs to be explained. It sounds like your read may have changed here, and if it has it would be good to know why.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
idk if I wanna vote IVD yet but the stuff Roden is bringing forward is suspicious

[MathBlade]

Personally, I think Roden's the best fade today.

Gives loads of information, good chance of scum, most of the game doesn't get their point, and theyre just pushing like I flipped a narrative, when I really didn't.

Everyone else I can make a bigger case for being town, such as HEM, such as Mala, even NK15 has a stronger town case than Roden.

But there is a lot of good discussion to have on all those other slots that we likely can come to better conclusions with extra flips and a Night Kill + PR actions.

I think Roden's just the overall best fade today.

Let's kill HEM (:

Yeah let’s not.

Why?

I think he’s town.

This one also needs to be explained. It sounds like your read may have changed here, and if it has it would be good to know why.

This says Italiano always has townread HEM. Am I out of order? What changed?

If HEM is town I fail to see the problem.

If HEM is scum then they’d need a look.

[Roden]

Alright let's go.

VOTE: HEM

And here you said I was charming. I should've known you were trying to butter me up.

And sure if you wanna frame it like I was ‘defending’ the slot you can. My actual point was, it was a waste of a vote because there was a high chance nothing would come of it. Nice shade by the way.

I’d still like to go for Roden and/or Kitty once we figure out what’s going on with HEM.

This doesn't read like someone who town reads HEM. Nothing has effectively changed that would make Italiano suddenly unsure of his read on HEM, there isn't a guilty result and there isn't a 1v1 in place. If there isn't any new information and he supposedly town read him before the fake guilty gambit, what exactly is there to "figure out"?