Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

Dunnstral · Post Post #3150 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:08 am

In post 3132, Snarky Fishes wrote:
In post 3126, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 3124, Snarky Fishes wrote:
In post 3121, Dunnstral wrote:Hey snarky fishes. Why does it make sense for Medea to be a scum doctor that self-roleblocks if targeted?
I don't know that it does make sense. But why wouldn't it?
It's an obviously town role that doesn't benefit the scum team at all, except if they coincidentally target me
I'm not scumreading medea.

I think you're reacting to my reply to notsci?

My point was that his viewpoint that scum would start with a demon, means that medea is scum given we were at
LOW
on shards.

I was pointing out the implication of that viewpoint, and not saying I think medea is scum.

In post 3142, Snarky Fishes wrote:Like, holy shit, I just went after Unwnd for not handing a shard out to Annie.
FF was asking questions of LLD about their claim,
I asked a questin in hydra about Medea.
I'm bugging Manatee about their change in tone.

Plus some traditional pings here and there. we've been noting.
So why do you think we aren't reacting to roles?

:?

-Bell

I will reconsider the full game state
UNVOTE:

unwnd · Post Post #3151 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:08 am

If I'm a town demon and I see someone also claiming demon

I just claim demon. Boom, Medea is the counter to me. That didn't happen though

Why?

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3152 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:09 am

Uh, because I don't know if he's lying so I'm asking him to explain himself and his reasoning. If you read his response you would note he used post-facto reasoning, that is, he was justifying himself from the argument of an outcome rather than from what he knew, what he assumed, or believed. I noted the discrepancy of him being okay with sharding Annie if he did think that it would be risky to demonify other players. There is no benefit to half-sharding a player. If he was assuming there were two demons and he felt that making more demons was a bad move, why was he okay with lettng someone get a shard, but not okay with them becoming a demon? If they get a shard they are easier to demonify and there is no advantage to having 1 shard to my knowledge.

-Bell

Here There Be Dragons · Post Post #3153 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:10 am

In post 3151, unwnd wrote:If I'm a town demon and I see someone also claiming demon

I just claim demon. Boom, Medea is the counter to me. That didn't happen though

Why?

an argument i could make is that could reveal you have a power, but if they continue to not materialize then... why does there have to be a town demon?

unwnd · Post Post #3154 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:10 am

Because Medea is claiming they are the town demon.

unwnd · Post Post #3155 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:12 am

Here There Be Dragons · Post Post #3156 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:14 am

In post 3154, unwnd wrote:Because Medea is claiming they are the town demon.

sure. what if they're a scum demon claiming town demon though. if you're right about a 2 demon start, which we don't know for sure, perhaps the other is also scum and they instructed the other one to not claim to make them look like The Town Demon via this exact reasoning

unwnd · Post Post #3157 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:14 am

See video above you

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3158 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:15 am

In post 3156, Here There Be Dragons wrote:
In post 3154, unwnd wrote:Because Medea is claiming they are the town demon.
sure. what if they're a scum demon claiming town demon though. if you're right about a 2 demon start, which we don't know for sure, perhaps the other is also scum and they instructed the other one to not claim to make them look like The Town Demon via this exact reasoning

DAY 1 SHARD COUNT

Am I being dense here? I don't see why we're entertaining the possibility of 2 demons yesterday.

Annie Edison · Post Post #3159 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:15 am

@ffery I’m half lurking but we pulled up to start moving my brother in after my last post

I’ve been debating if I took cabds post as gospel due to the lack of CC

Here There Be Dragons · Post Post #3160 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:15 am

In post 3157, unwnd wrote:See video above you

?

unwnd · Post Post #3161 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:19 am

Medea confirmed the existence of at least 1 demon yesterday (when it could be implied that low could count as 0). That's 1.

Low is 0-2. I don't know where Snarky is getting 'oh why are we implying there was 2 demons' when nobody has. All I've had is a theory, yet Snarky is going off the handle and saying shit like 'oh well I specifically meant'

Why does specifics matter? More importantly, why do you need to care so much what your guess is. I certainly don't know yet he got so bothered by it for some reason.

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3162 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:20 am

In post 3159, Annie Edison wrote:@ffery I’m half lurking but we pulled up to start moving my brother in after my last post

I’ve been debating if I took cabds post as gospel due to the lack of CC

If my assumption about demon-count/shard-count is incorrect I'd really like for someone to explain that.

I'm miffed you thought that was tmi.

Lukewarm · Post Post #3163 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:20 am

In post 3158, Snarky Fishes wrote:DAY 1 SHARD COUNT

Am I being dense here? I don't see why we're entertaining the possibility of 2 demons yesterday.

Hello. Am taking break from moving. I have read like 5 posts.

Can you explain this to me?

Day 1 shard count was low. Low was defined as 0-2 demons. Why would we not entertain the possibility of 2 demons? It fits in the low count, right?

Since we jumped to medium, I feel like that also supports the idea that we started closer to the threshold, no?

It is very possible that this was discussed earlier, and I missed it. So sorry if that is the case

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3164 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:24 am

In post 3163, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 3158, Snarky Fishes wrote:DAY 1 SHARD COUNT

Am I being dense here? I don't see why we're entertaining the possibility of 2 demons yesterday.
Hello. Am taking break from moving. I have read like 5 posts.

Can you explain this to me?

Day 1 shard count was low. Low was defined as 0-2 demons. Why would we not entertain the possibility of 2 demons? It fits in the low count, right?

Since we jumped to medium, I feel like that also supports the idea that we started closer to the threshold, no?

It is very possible that this was discussed earlier, and I missed it. So sorry if that is the case

oh fuck.

And thanks.

I've been thinking 0-2 shards, not 0-2 demons.

sorry sorry.

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3165 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:24 am

In post 3065, unwnd wrote:I already had the theory that town started with 1 demon and scum started with 1 demon, with the other two being humans.

Medea already claimed they were a demon. We went over this with Medea being like 'oh why didn't you set a trap' or whatever. Right now the count went from Low to Medium just overnight without a kill. The thing that has been ringing alarms to me is the inferrence of shard distribution knowing my own power. I can also give out two shards.

Just as a footnote I haven't done that, but it does beg the question of why we jumped from Low to Medium already, knowing my own own inactivity. The implication that scum chose to give out shards slightly tilted me

In post 3077, Snarky Fishes wrote:Oh, why didn't you send a shard to Annie Unwnd?

-Bell

In post 3081, unwnd wrote:
In post 3077, Snarky Fishes wrote:Oh, why didn't you send a shard to Annie Unwnd?

-Bell
Do you see the alternative win condition.

We're already at Medium

In post 3084, Snarky Fishes wrote:
In post 3081, unwnd wrote:
In post 3077, Snarky Fishes wrote:Oh, why didn't you send a shard to Annie Unwnd?

-Bell
Do you see the alternative win condition.

We're already at Medium
I do not recall you having this concern when we gave Annie the shard.

-Bell

In post 3087, unwnd wrote:
In post 3076, ManateeGal wrote:unwnd when did ur read on me change
I think right now I'm null on you

I need to see more conviction

Pedit:

It takes two to become a demon, Bell. Not one

In post 3092, Snarky Fishes wrote:
In post 3087, unwnd wrote:
In post 3076, ManateeGal wrote:unwnd when did ur read on me change
I think right now I'm null on you

I need to see more conviction

Pedit:

It takes two to become a demon, Bell. Not one
Okay this reasoning is very flawed and I don't understand why you think that.

If you give town one shard you're making it easier for them to be demonized.
Plus your reasoning is clearly post-facto. When we didn't know whether there was 1 or 2 demons on the first day.

-Bell

In post 3093, unwnd wrote:
In post 3092, Snarky Fishes wrote:
In post 3087, unwnd wrote:
In post 3076, ManateeGal wrote:unwnd when did ur read on me change
I think right now I'm null on you

I need to see more conviction

Pedit:

It takes two to become a demon, Bell. Not one
Okay this reasoning is very flawed and I don't understand why you think that.

If you give town one shard you're making it easier for them to be demonized.
Plus your reasoning is clearly post-facto. When we didn't know whether there was 1 or 2 demons on the first day.

-Bell
...Did you not see Medea claim they were a demon.

What the fuck is this.

In post 3097, unwnd wrote:I think it's more troubling that you forgot the fact we did know if there was one or two demons around,
Bell

Annie Edison · Post Post #3166 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:25 am

I’m on like 5% so I’ll be around later tonight if you want to talk more

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3167 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:27 am

In post 3166, Annie Edison wrote:I’m on like 5% so I’ll be around later tonight if you want to talk more

My whole sense of the demon-count was just wrong.

still thinking about what that means.

but, you're right, there could have been 2 demons day 1.

unwnd · Post Post #3168 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:29 am

So you admit you were wrong and yet you want to implicate me for what again?

Why did I choose to vote Annie? Because I thought Annie was town. There are some underlying factors that we've now talked about, but I digress. It's not a matter of me thinking you're TMIng or anything like that, just the way you manuevered around speculation and then trying to pin me on it is alarming.

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3169 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:29 am

I think that bolster's medea's town-equity, at least.

I'm relieved there are objective, outside-my-fevered-brain reasons to townread them now.

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3170 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:31 am

Huh, @FF, I didn't know you didn't know that. I had the correct conception that it was stating the number of demons. I didn't think medea as either alignment would lie about being a demon early game. So it felt t likely there was 1, bu wasn't sure if there were two.

My entire concern has to do with: Being okay with giving Notty 1 shard, but not two. The 1 just makes them easier to be a demon at the demon's convenience and they chose not,

Also yeah, It's possible that the scum team did just send their shards out to themselves and it's possible some of them could even power themselves up with the shards. It would also fit Rhea's ability.

Wait, did I miss a counter argument FF posted about scum not being able to shard themselves?

-Bell

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3171 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:31 am

In post 3168, unwnd wrote:So you admit you were wrong and yet you want to implicate me for what again?

Why did I choose to vote Annie? Because I thought Annie was town. There are some underlying factors that we've now talked about, but I digress. It's not a matter of me thinking you're TMIng or anything like that, just the way you manuevered around speculation and then trying to pin me on it is alarming.

I was wrong.

I don't know if Bell was laboring under the same error. probably not.

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3172 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:32 am

In post 3170, Snarky Fishes wrote:Wait, did I miss a counter argument FF posted about scum not being able to shard themselves?

NOPE! That's not something I thought, at least!

Lukewarm · Post Post #3173 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:32 am

In post 3145, unwnd wrote:A sample Role PM is just that

An sample. Even then, factional kill is separate. I think a member can choose to kill and one of them can self-distribute with the multitask clause in play

I refuse to entertain the idea that the scum team can factionally kill and factionally give out shards. The sample goon pm is very explicit that the factional choice is either/or. If the actual factional ability allows for both, then imo, the mod lied to us. And I don't think bork would do that.

And yes. It was a sample. But it was the sample for a mafia goon. Implying that if there is a mafia goon, that is what their pm looks like (minus flavor name) so I am functioning on the knowledge that the factional ability is what bork said. the factional ability being

In post 2, borkjerfkin wrote:
Dark Alliance [Mafia]
- You are a member of the Mafia and may talk to your partners here, and, at night, elect a member to perform either a single factional kill OR assign two shards to any combination of living players.

Snarky Fishes · Post Post #3174 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:33 am

In post 3168, unwnd wrote:So you admit you were wrong and yet you want to implicate me for what again?

Why did I choose to vote Annie? Because I thought Annie was town. There are some underlying factors that we've now talked about, but I digress. It's not a matter of me thinking you're TMIng or anything like that, just the way you manuevered around speculation and then trying to pin me on it is alarming.

I was not.
I continue to be saying that Unwnd is cool with Sharding Annie but not giving them power. While justifying not sharding them to make them into a demon because that would make more demons.
It does not make sense and they don't appear to be engaging my reasoning and seem more concerned with pushing back and misreading my posts.

-Bell