Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[DkKoba]

pagetop

link to VC on this page

[DkKoba]

anyways if lavar is town he will give u the sword gamma since u will probably die from scum attacking u and u can do an attack urself on a scumread of urs with the sword.

basically we can turn u into a vig.

also if you do end up dying we can leash a person to stealing an item from you later on

i do want to go lavar -> noraa with how much noraa has been defending lavar its really either a chainsaw or scumpartner protection. no one says they scumread someone and refuses to vote them in a situation like this esp when lavar is less useful than fng and lavar has a weapon.

[lilith2013]

V OTECOUNT 3.045
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES		S TRENGTH	S PEED	K NOWLEDGE	P LAYER N AME
Gamma Emerald	None	EL-6	2	1	6	Gamma Emerald
SirCakez	None	EL-6	2	3	3	SirCakez
CreativeMod1	None	EL-6	3	4	3	CreativeMod1
Albert B. Rampage	I Keep Siteflaking	EL-5	3	3	3	Albert B. Rampage
LavarManos	DkKoba, PenguinPower, SirCakez, JohnnyFarrar	EL-2	3	3	4	LavarManos
DkKoba	None	EL-6	3	3	3	DkKoba
I Keep Siteflaking	None	EL-6	3	3	3	I Keep Siteflaking
PenguinPower	None	EL-6	3	3	3	PenguinPower
Fun and Games	Albert B. Rampage, CreativeMod1, Noraa	EL-3	3	3	3	Fun and Games
Noraa	Fun and Games	EL-5	3	4	3	Noraa
JohnnyFarrar	None	EL-6	3	3	6	JohnnyFarrar
Not Voting	Gamma Emerald, LavarManos
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2020-10-27 16:13:10)
Notes: JohnnyFarrar is V/LA until Oct 21 Currently searching for a replacement for PenguinPower. pagetops: Lilith 60 | penguin 19 | ABR 11 | dk 7 | iks 6 | noraa 5 | gamma 5 | johnnyf 3 | cm1 2 | fun & games 2 | nosferatu 2 | cakez 2 | gb 1 | bingle 1 | lavar 1

[CreativeMod1]

Gah, all I did was sleep and now theres another 20+ pages haha, I'm just gonna put thoughts in here as I read through, apologies if I say something that later gets addressed, also ngl but I'm skim reading half this game cos there's just so much

1) The votecount is very interesting, thank you very much. A big part of why I wanna flip F&G is due to the voting patterns, more so on the second day but also from the first day, I could 100% see a scum team of F&G and Lava

2) IKS I could also see as being scum from VC, notice how they were on Lava's wagon until it got too hot and then rejoined Lava's wagon once it cooled down

3) Looking at Lava's ISO's, I can see this being a trio

4) DK, chill out, just cos we have opposing views doesn't make either of us bad at the game. Also this is a democracy not a dictatorship, just because you're townier than most doesn't give you the right to take control of the game. I hate it when players play like that because it makes the game a lot less fun.

5) DK, a massive issue with your plan is that Nos had already told town about how your ability works, Scum will be able to account for it

6) Nora being scummy for going to the gym means nothing...I also went to the gym last night, does this make me scum? :O

7) Lol I find it funny that DK is calling out Gamma for being stubborn...

8) Lets look at the world in which Nora is scum, who needs 4 speed to do her rather powerful ability....why would scum stop her from getting it on the first night, like okay yes a lot of people got room blocked on that night (I wouldn't be surprised if some were scum lying about going there) I'd probably predict about 3 players actually got room blocked...Scum!Nora would rather gain her ability sooner rather than later

9) I noticed that DK is calling F&G townie for at the start of the game trying to coordinate who does what action that night and who visits what rooms...knowing who is planning on visiting what room is very powerful for scum who have a room-blocker, if they want to use that room-blocker as effectively as possible then knowing which room is gonna have the most people visiting is gonna be very helpful

10) Social read on DK is still scummy, I find it hilarious that they're trying to sow doubt on some of the other towniest players, not that I really should need to defend myself but here we go anyway:
a) I had no reason to share my stat boost with Gamma, I did so because Gamma hinted towards being able to attack multiple labs, I could've easily saved it hidden away for some late game attacks
b) I had no reason to use my heal ability on Nos/DK, especially cos Nos at first told me not to but eventually they asked me to do so and thus I did. Again I could've saved it for later to heal a scum buddy
c) I have proven all of my night actions with exploring and finding items as I have passed out all of my items to Gamma
d) Lets be real here, I'm a lot more townie then you are
e) We should all keep in mind though that there isn't any form of 100% confirmed town in this setup, from what I gather, there is no cop or anything like that

11) See point 4...DK, chill the fuck out, love that I'm about 10 pages in and I've gotta say this again, nobody is gonna listen to you or respect your views if you try to be a dictator...heck even if you were cop confirmed I wouldn't listen to you at this point. Stop being so rude and try listening to other people. This game is gonna require social reads, telling everyone what to do will not help our social reads, you need to let other players come up with ideas themselves so that we can grill them on why they'd suggest said ideas.

12) This plan of getting everyone to attack each other is so pointless, in fact scum are gonna love it 100% because they'll be able to get a load of damage done to half the town, they'll get to use the attack function on people without any downside

13) F&G, yes I am staying very firmly on your wagon, I'm not 100% certain you're scum but I'm a good 80% certain, I am however 100% certain that flipping you will give us sooooo much info, cos if you flip scum then we'll learn a lot, if you flip town then we'll know that our original ideas were wrong and thus we can re-evaluate, this is why I was so frustrated with the bingle flip yesterday, it gave us nothing...atm I think scum team are: F&G/Lava/IKS +1 other, Lava would be a pointless flip because I don't feel like they're active enough to be fighty on a future day, F&G I could easily see them being able to out-argue other players and get away with it (as they have been doing all day)

14) I highly agree with SirCakez, so much of this whole game has been spammy pointless arguments and it's made this game a massive tax to read, honestly I'm not surprised that PP quit the game, there's just so much bullshit happening and it's pointless

[DkKoba]

no u dont think im scummy u just think im aggressive and u think aggressive = scummy

[DkKoba]

whatever cats out of the bag i have a pgo sort of ability that reduces the knowledge of anyone who attacks me to 1

oh what the fuck nos what is wrong with u this literally is an S tier ability and u just spill it im actually kinda pissed bc i assumed that a sensible player would hide this kind of thing.. ya know cause its not something u just out

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s still usable lol

[DkKoba]

honestly i dont care cm1. scum is going to leave u alive if ur town and theres a good reason why. just promise us u will sheep ppl like bingle/me/gamma when gamma/I do die ty.

just a quick skim into your ego shows you do not have many games of mafia completed. this is why i ask you to ellaborate on your reads and actually provide substance. "voting around" isnt scummy. trying to guide around actions isnt inherently scummy. leashing scum is actually a good thing. someone deviates from a plan? thats it for them. its a simple concept.
the issue with the fng foses is that they do not fos for anything thats acutallly alignment indicative and thats why its been a standstill around the wagon bc what the fuck are they supposed to do about a faulty premise. i think they are 70/30 town atm.

i have clearly stated other reasons for scumreading nora. idk how u can read her iso and go "hmm this is town!" like just bc someone is appearing to scumhunt doesnt mean they are town?? u have to look at how theyare doing. the timing of what they are doing. the logical flow of their reads and if they are acting logically according to their reads.


and yes i am paranoid u could be scum bc like i pointed out. lategame is when docs care the most about labs. The Voice basically counts as an activated lab themselves. stop and consider that things u are saying/lack of what u are saying makes a townread on u weaker. I have a potential solve that has ur name in it. i dont have one with gamma.







so the important questions: what about the voting patterns do you think is scummy. i.e. is this behavior that you have observed in other games and successfully caught scum doing? is this something you have confidence is a scumtell?

this is what I have wrt scumreads. everyone outside of that i cannot really townread. everyone is just bleh? i would have townread bingle / GB(why the fuck do yall keep limming GB for being less active theres 10000% at least 2 scum on that wagon js there always is on the LHF wagons ) but yall already limmed them.

theres posts i have pointed out specifically as scummy but i can dig them out later. this is where im at for a solve. i think johnny could be swapped in for either lavar/abr. (the sword thing could have been an attempt to distance from abr ??? idk.)

who i think the scumteam is if 3 people:

noraa: has ate'd constantly and just stuck to a single tunnel without consideration for anything else. made excuses to get out of mechanically confirming anything. or to help town solve. something tells me that their n1 action was to activate the lab and they swapped that with their n0 action. also their seemingly unmoving townread on abr i can see as team indicative.

lavar: man. this dude just straight scummy. between hammersitting on d2, their slotkin pine being also scummy, and then claiming an item and then using delaying tactics to avoid giving it to a person who is near conf town is just ... yeah.

abr: fng listed reasoning above but its generally that. like why are u rushing an EoD? what are you doing with your role? its all just hmmm.

[DkKoba]

That’s still usable lol

yea but i guess scum know now i have a separate ability i still can use lol.

at least they hid the item we got too from that room. like holy crap that was an OP room with a huge drawback that nearly got this slot killed twice

[I Keep Siteflaking]

IKS's "scum slip" likely isnt even a scumslip. Mini normals always have 3 scums from my experience so I would almost say its a townslip. The problem is that with all the townies being prs, I feel like its somewhat possible for there to be 4 scums so if there are 4 scums yeah it was a scumslip. prob is that idk how many there are so I can't put my finger on whether this is a scum or town slip.

I am surprised you are not pushing me for it.

[CreativeMod1]

Lol I'm being told to sheep people like Gamma but I'm wrong to think that F&G is scum when Gamma also thinks it.....

On-site I might not have many games but off-site I've had plenty, both irl and online.

If F&G were town then this wagon would be much easier to get people on it, but it's not there's been so many people against it both yesterday and today, it's almost as if there aren't any scum who are wanting to get away with a quick and easy town elim

Also it's not just voting patterns, look at the ISO of F&G and Lilith during day 2, before there was any heat on Pine/Lava F&G was saying that they were down and more than happy to vote for Pine, but then when heat got onto Pine F&G started defending Pine and tried making pushes elsewhere.

Nora is a slot which I'm not 100% sold on but is not a slot I wanna elim right now, if she's scum then I'll deal with her later, honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Nora is scum bussing F&G who is also scum to gain town-cred

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Feel like I'm in North Korea, can't go against Dictator DK otherwise they might think I'm a traitor :O Would LOVE to hear this game solve with my name on it, that shit's hilarious...whilst you're at it, please explain why I wasted all my abilities and items on town and whilst you're at it please go back to my last post and explain parts 10a-10e

I feel like if we don't elim F&G today then Gamma will die in the night and you're gonna go on this full dictatorship and never allow anyone to try and elim F&G


In all seriousness, stop acting like such a child, stop acting as if you're an expert who knows everything and taking full control of the town, take a backseat and listen to others. This is a team game not a solo game, even if you're 100% right (which heck, you could be) this is not the way to go about pushing your reads. You need to realise that there are other people on this team who also have reads and want to follow up with those reads. It is possible for you to be wrong about your reads, just like it's possible for us to be wrong about ours.

Essentially DK, please take a step back and know that yours isn't the only voice in the game and if you want people to listen and respect to you then you need to listen and respect them. I will NEVER sheep you if you don't listen to and respect the other players in this game.

Finally, as for why I haven't posted as much and thus there's less of a social read for me, there's just soooo many pages to go through that it's very taxing to keep up let alone do anything else, I'd very much appreciate it if everyone chilled out just a little bit. Reading through everything is just becoming so much of a chore which is then not helped when it also becomes mentally taxing watching all the pointless arguments.

[DkKoba]

pot kettle black

[I Keep Siteflaking]

In addition while I myself don't want this, I think if we are pairing up players to attack each other and decide to include ABR and Noraa in it, they should 100% target each other

Good luck enforcing this.

[DkKoba]

In addition while I myself don't want this, I think if we are pairing up players to attack each other and decide to include ABR and Noraa in it, they should 100% target each other

Good luck enforcing this.

hey look if the "near clears" all decide we do want this it should be basically a scumclaim to go against it. the argument that it "could weaken town" is bad. we just accelerate the game and lim unclears before labs can be found
also i got a post coming up for CM1. One thing to note is please stop consider i am trying to solve this game and whether or not you like me as a person if you are town you would do well to help as well rather than complain with my methodology. if you care more about tone than content then sorry we wont really get along.

[I Keep Siteflaking]

Good luck enforcing it.

[DkKoba]

hey look if town wants to make it easier for scum to win by letting scum control the mechanics they can feel free to toss away the advantage. ill just "i told you so" postgame.

[DkKoba]

i 1000% would as an unclear follow this strategy and agree to attack an unclear that i scumread btw. esp if i was being scumread id want to be able to prove that i did not do anything like activate a lab during the night.

[DkKoba]

cm1: look i think ur likely town but consider that i cannot locktown you based on your actions.

irl/face to face mafia is much much different than forum mafia. in fact this is like how it goes in terms of how you weight what you look for scumhunting-wise most of the time:

tonal>>>>>>>>>>analytical
irl/video>voice>chat mafia>longform chat mafia>blitz forum>forum

(i still use tonal reads in forum to identify scumpings)


please also dont accuse me of not listening to you. me asking you questions on why your reads are the way they are because i want to listen to you. but i want constructive information from you. getting peoples concrete stances and forcing them to analyze in a way that is logical is my MO most often. this is why i think noraa is scum. when i start to go for concrete questioning of their reads and their actiosn they get slimy and skip around. this is the reason i think they are scum for the most part. a lot of the time i operate on how much "evidence" i have against someone. if theres enough things that i see that are ~scummy~ my vote tends to gravitate that way.

you're not entitled to a locktown read just for doing good mech actions. its not foolproof evidence of you being town. its a very viable scum gambit to do so. it would easily bring you to endgame because hey i wouldnt touch you until it was the end. very viable candidate for The Voice. if it was lylo and it was 3/4 way and 1 scum left confirmed and you were somehow still alive id vote you off is all im saying. but thats a far off hypothetical.

if you wont sheep me because im not nice then so be it. you can lose the game. thats your choice. i am trying to provide you the path to victory rather than a loss. you seem to be very defensive about your town level in comparison to the other 2 near conf clears, which is fairly scummy considering the lack of pressure on you. just literally relax bc no vote are going in your direction anytime soon. me shading you isnt going to materialize a wagon. if you are town dont expect to make it to lylo at all.


stop focusing on how i am reading you and try to have an open discussion about where your reads come from. dissect the logic behind them.

(also i need confirmation where it was said that the room block was only a 1 shot thing)


because as soon as someone tells me a piece of evidence is false i will discard it! and i typically try not to latch onto nai actions unless the motivation around them/tone surrounding it is scummy etc. just like .. explain shit its pretty straightforward. i spew my thoughts onto the table. in a mech game that manifests itself as strategies and plans. i dont like to let scum control the mech part of the game. not my style at all.

[DkKoba]

IKS can i just get like a concise readlist from u please. i normally am against readlists but i just wanna see where u are at. ur like 50/50 in terms of scum/town

[SirCakez]

Johnny get your ass back to F&G (said in the nicest way possible but ye this a joke)
Cake why do you jump on Lavar so fast when you were talking about joining F&G for the longest time?
DK you are pocketed town. Town that got 100% pocketed by F&G.

IDGAF I'll do either of them

why don't you do the bigger wagon that has higher chance of going thru that you have talked about for the longest time?

Because frankly I think Lavar is scummier

[Fun and Games]

A big part of why I wanna flip F&G is due to the voting patterns, more so on the second day but also from the first day, I could 100% see a scum team of F&G and Lava

This is a bunch of vague/general buzzwords that doesnt actually mean anything

What exactly about our voting pattern is scummy?

[Fun and Games]

DK is calling F&G townie for at the start of the game trying to coordinate who does what action that night and who visits what rooms...knowing who is planning on visiting what room is very powerful for scum who have a room-blocker, if they want to use that room-blocker as effectively as possible then knowing which room is gonna have the most people visiting is gonna be very helpful

I'm kinda flattered that y'all think i'm that brazen as scum, but i wouldnt actually make those posts as scum with a roomblocker

[Fun and Games]

cos if you flip scum then we'll learn a lot, if you flip town then we'll know that our original ideas were wrong and thus we can re-evaluate, this is why I was so frustrated with the bingle flip yesterday, it gave us nothing...at

What exactly will you be learning upon our scumflip?

And let's do this again: upon our townflip what will your reads be?

[Fun and Games]

If F&G were town then this wagon would be much easier to get people on it, but it's not there's been so many people against it both yesterday and today, it's almost as if there aren't any scum who are wanting to get away with a quick and easy town elim

This isnt true and is revisionist
All but two slots in this game were calling for our heads at daystart. The only reason we werent lynches at that point is because peoppe wanted more time for the day to talk about things. And then dk came in and changed the gamestate

But to call us scummy for resistance to our wagon is ridiculous because there *wasn't* any.

[Fun and Games]

and never allow anyone to try and elim F&G

Why are you so convinced we're scummy exactly ... ?
You've kinda neglected to explaon that part