Mini 1547 - Wicked Mafia (Game Over!)


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Post Post #3200 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:47 pm

Post by Malakittens »

In post 3199, notscience wrote:was he town
He was scum.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3201 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:47 pm

Post by notscience »

Also every time I see bazinga as the most recent post in coney I think to myself "fuck yes someone's a necromancer and brought back molliebert" and then look at this game and feel nothing but disappointment

pedit-

BUT IM TOWN
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Post Post #3202 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:48 pm

Post by Malakittens »

Oh, thought you were talking about Uber. Uber scum.

Lora was town, yes.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3203 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:54 pm

Post by notscience »

The urge to sheep bro

so prominent
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Post Post #3204 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:00 pm

Post by Malakittens »

Sheeping is bad in LyLo.

I'll nicknme you ns the sheeple.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3205 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:20 pm

Post by Malakittens »

Anyways:

Mina is town for the following:

Reach out to Cabd/Peng in regards to wanting into the neighborhood to take a look at interactions there reads town. . That post imo doesn't come from a scum-poV, along with the fact she was actively trying to eliminate pairs and gave all her thoughts on them when the Day opened after being in the hood.

Also her mindset on LyLo looks a lot like my early-town LyLo play before it changed for the worse. ._.

Notscience is town for the following:

-Playing to town meta

-Trying to draw NK by softclaiming cop result on toasty. (That doesn't seem like something that would be played from scum).

-Also then there's the back and forth changes by Ghatty in terms of their notscience read. Timing for calling ns scum is bad and they should feel bad.

I'm getting more confident in a Ghatty/Amper scum team as I go over ISO's. My read on notscience is not going to change and I'll be flabberghasted if Mina is scum based on her actions currently in the LyLo situation and the things mentioned above.

VOTE: Amper
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3206 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:22 pm

Post by Malakittens »

Also it doesn't make sense to have two strong hydra's in the late stage of the game especially in LyLo which highly makes it that at least one if not both hydras are scum.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3207 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:46 pm

Post by notscience »

I don't want nacho to be scum though ;-;
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Post Post #3208 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:01 pm

Post by Malakittens »

[quote="In post 3207, notscience"][/quote]

Me either, but Amper/Ghatty is what I come up with after PoE.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3209 (ISO) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:49 pm

Post by Tammy »

Vote Count 5.4
Malakittens (1) - Ampersand
Ampersand (1) - malakittens


Not Voting (3):
Ghatokaca, Mina, notscience,


With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.


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Post Post #3210 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:25 pm

Post by notscience »

shit

I'm here now.

Okay.
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Post Post #3211 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Post by notscience »

So, I've played with Mala a fair amount, but I don't think quite as much as I've played with Mollie Bert and Nacho (her and mollie might be tied) but she's modded games of mine. When I'm town, I'm obviously town, and it's really hard to confuse my meta. So, that explains her read on me.

Anyways.

We both hate drawing scum. How do I know this? Her scumgames versus her towngames. We both lurkaderp as scum. The first game I ever played with her way back in like May of last year she was in a hydra with Mara and Mollie and I want to say she only posted 1/2 times in the whole game when her hydra was actually one of the people in endgame (before I shot them :P)

I'll be getting game references for this later on but this will have to do as I have to go sleep soon.

Other games we've been in together were Marvel and DC, where her and mollie were active and trying to figure things out (and shouldn't have fucking been vig'd D1 that shot sucked).

I'm having a tough time remembering who modded/the number of the game, but there was a micro a while ago where the setup was like 1 shot global watcher, 2 scum, 1 doctor, and everyone has to go visit someone at night. She was scum there, and when she got caught by the watcher she was like "About time" which is what makes me draw the connections to how tammy is as scum and is like wtf I'm obvscum what are they doing

I don't remember much of her from 514 but she had an excuse to blend in the backrgound with all the high content posters in that game (me before I calmed down some (yes, this is low-key me)) and wisdom and Saki and Bert and sakura and etc but Bert isn't here to chat with about it >.>

We were both scum in a newbie game (she was on her alt) and I'm trying to remember what number it was but I remember it was vs wisdom and Rayfrost I think. We were both scum and were kinda just like ugh whatever and I remember distinct lurking

We were both in Trollie's Macbeth mafia and we were both town, but I was a 1-shot vig and shot obvtown amrun at the same time scum shot her <.> and I had claimed it D2 and she was avidly defending me there because she thought I was town even when in all reality I was a stupidly easy ml there and she was town. I remember her being active-ish there too

Both town (her in a hydra) in Mini 1471, Goodmorning's game. There I'd kinda gone off the wall tunnelly batshit and if I remember correctly she was constantly trying to push against my tunnel because she was strong townreading him (also I think this was referenced in either trollie or marvel vs dc but idr which)

We were both in Knight-Errant one and I
think
she was otwn but I don't remember much of anything from that game so come back to me later on that one mmkay

We were both in I want to say 531 but I'm not sure that's the right number. It was similar to Matrix 6, I remember town's PRs were a Jailkeeper and Backup Jailkeeper and she was backup. However, she was on her alt and it was a bit more lurky than other town games but even then it wasn't terribly like where is she
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Post Post #3212 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:54 pm

Post by Ampersand »

I hope for your sake that that's not your town case on Mala.
In post 3206, Malakittens wrote:Also it doesn't make sense to have two strong hydra's in the late stage of the game especially in LyLo which highly makes it that at least one if not both hydras are scum.
Okay, name a Night during which you think it would've been reasonable for scum to kill either us or Nachohydra.
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Post Post #3213 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:40 am

Post by Ampersand »

I don't have much to add. Mala is proven scum from our PoV, and I think notsci is the most likely partner. Everyone else has done things that seem more unlikely/difficult to fake as scum.

notsci claims that he wouldn't be able to fool bazinga, Medea
and
Ghato into thinking he's town, but two out of those three came to the conclusion that he's not. And I think the way notsci made his switch to voting Medea Yesterday fits him being the scum with Mala.

notsci says Mala doesn't maintain activity as scum, but... she hasn't maintained her activity in this game. I found her push on Hanzo believable, but since then she's done nothing that indicates she's actually trying to scumhunt.

I don't want to build a big nitpicky case because
cases are scummy
cases are anti-town
after the Medea thing, I've decided it might actually be harmful rather than helpful. I think that the correct answer here is fairly self-evident, and that town players are likely to come to the correct conclusion.

- Fenchurch
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Post Post #3214 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:59 am

Post by notscience »

Wrong, Medea thought I was scum based on a scumslip.right but the entirety of the game has been "oh ns is town"

Ghato thinks I'm scum for some jackshit reason pertaining to cabds switch.

And bazinga was right

Feel free to get the discredits out of your system mow, I'm coming with actual examples later today

But please, keep going on how there is nothing more to say. There's always more to say.

Hell, you can explain why Bert wasn't scumreading me when he caught me in two other games going on simultaneously with this one. You can explain who alive would kill anyone but bazinga d1 do so. You can explain why scum ns doesn't use the interaction with mina as a way to lurk through the thread.You can explain why this game is different from all my other scumgames. You can explain why this is the lylo I'd chose to set up. You can explain why rather than try reaching out to anyone you make an ice cold "town will make the right choice" statement. Hell, you can explain why your reads seem to line up so well with ghatos now. You can explain your thoughts of nachofalcon wanting you in the neighborhood because from what I've seen he's been a nonentity here. You can explain why scum mama lays it all on the line d1 with the softclaim. You can explain why scummala asks for someone to bounce ideas off of and scum ns answers the call rather than let a townie take the bait. You can explain why scum ns made a big deal about a fm rather than ignore it and kill him d2. You can explain why claiming your alternating part rather than crumbing it makes sense from town motivation.
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Post Post #3215 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:18 am

Post by Ampersand »

I can't explain all those things and I don't know why I'd be able to. A bunch of them are unanswerable (e.g. you suggesting that none of us would have chosen to kill Zdenek N1, evidently somebody did, but no I don't know why.)

Your point on the interactions between you and Mala today are valid; in my mind there is still a chance that it's Ghato-Mala rather than you-Mala. I'll definitely consider that in Tonight/Tomorrow if we get there.

- Fenchurch
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Post Post #3216 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:11 am

Post by Malakittens »

Yes, I hate being scum. I used to like it, but then rolling it 8 consecutive games in a row killed my happiness of it. Also then there is the part where I badly suck at it and I'm pretty transparent. There used to be a time where I thought I was decent at it, but time after time my scum game started going to shit, but so did my town game.

@Amper:

I'm not sure what night would have been the best opportunity for scum to kill either of you, but I think you claiming doc would be a decent reason for killing you, but then there was Toasty who was a confirmed town.

Amper you been lining up lynches since Medea and I both claimed. It all started with the setup speculation and you had a perfect opportunity to lynch me when I gladatied Aronis, but in the end you voted Aronis. ()

In you left the door wide open for yourself to vote either Medea or I depending on how the wind swayed so to speak.
Quote to show:
My conflict on Medea is that they've clearly put a lot of effort in, which I tend to find townie, and some of their reasoning seems solid, but I also find their posting lacks certain things that I would expect from town (gut-reads; organic, natural sounding reasoning), and quite a few of the things they say ping scum for me.

The other issue is that I find Mala more scummy Today than I did Yesterday (which makes me sad). I feel her play still hasn't picked up since her absence on D2; her reads are somewhat superficial and weak, and managing to look town for D1 and then not sustaining it is reasonably common for scum. And, I don't think it's that likely that both the neighbouriser and the gladiator are scum, so if Mala is scum then Medea probably isn't.

But I can't decide which is more likely scum... lazy play and superficial reads, or strong play with some scum-tells. I'm still inclined to think the latter.
In the end; you line up lynches depending on the possible flip. You started the day after Aronis' flip focusing more so on Medea and I, but without really giving newer reads on Ghatty, Mina or ns.

Also, noticing on my reread through the thread I saw this:
And before Mala used the gladiate yesterday, I had even considered suggesting that if everyone agreed to lynch Medea, and if they flipped town,
Mala should gladiate us the following Day. Because in the worst case scenario, if we got lynched rather than Mala, town would presumably lynch Mala after our flip.
(But I didn't think that Wester would want to play it that way so I didn't.)
Please note the bold above in the quote. This is in so many more ways wrong. Why would a town-pr like a doctor even considering going 1v1 against a gladiator. Why would you even think about doing it if you are town. If you are town, Medea is town and I'm town you are basically giving the scum two/three free mislynches based on this play.

I'm not even sure why you brought it up when you didn't think your partner would want to play it that way.

Just doesn't sit well if you are a doctor and are giving yourself up to be
possibly
lynched when you have a decently strong PR.

I just don't get why if you thought I was scum why you would vote with me and not push me. You soft-pushed both Medea and I and when the first opportunity came up to lynch either of us you took it via voting Medea.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3217 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:06 pm

Post by Ampersand »

In post 3216, Malakittens wrote:I just don't get why if you thought I was scum why you would vote with me and not push me. You soft-pushed both Medea and I and when the first opportunity came up to lynch either of us you took it via voting Medea.
I voted with you on Day 3 because at that point I was pretty sure you were town and Medea was scum. It turns out I was wrong. And the reasons you mention are pretty much the reasons why I think Wester would have opposed 1v1ing you (e.g. the slim possibility that there really were 6 town power roles), but it seemed unlikely, and if (worst case scenario) our mis-lynch would secure a scum-lynch afterwards then it would be worth it. The only way to truly prove our claim is to die and so that would prove it. And I mentioned it just because it's true, because it's a thing that I thought.

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Post Post #3218 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:46 pm

Post by Ampersand »

In post 3216, Malakittens wrote:Amper you been lining up lynches since Medea and I both claimed. It all started with the setup speculation and you had a perfect opportunity to lynch me when I gladatied Aronis, but in the end you voted Aronis. ()
Where's the scum motivation here? Protecting you if we were scum together makes some degree of sense, but if I'm scum who planned on mislynching both you and Aronis, what's the benefit?
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Post Post #3219 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:49 pm

Post by Ampersand »

BTW, I'm not sure how breadcrumbing our non-consecutiveness would have been a better play. If we were gonna claim our Doctor ability, we had to claim the non-consecutive aspect because that was the only reason we didn't protect chamber Night 2. The only other option would be to not claim at all.

And I've never gotten the hang of breadcrumbing anyway, but I don't think it matters much in this kind of scenario because my play has been consistent with our role. (And I imagine if I ever get an investigative role and need to crumb results I'll find a way.) I explained the ways in which it's impacted on my play in the game in post #2909, and I'm happy to answer any further questions because I know the reasons why I've done things.

And it's not 'lining up lynches' if there's a valid reason to think at least one of you two is scum. And you can't just dismiss set-up spec; it can be a perfectly valid tool. If you think this particular reason is wrong then I would have expected you to comment to that effect and give counter-arguments or examples. The fact that neither you nor notsci have done so is one of the reasons I think you're scum together; I think you were both reluctant to commit to saying that you believe there
would
be 6 town power roles, because that's a difficult position to defend. But you also didn't want to say there
wouldn't
, because that forces you to go up against us. So you've both just ignored it and not taken any stance at all.

- Fenchurch
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Post Post #3220 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:10 pm

Post by Tammy »

Vote Count 5.5
Malakittens (1) - Ampersand
Ampersand (1) - malakittens


Not Voting (3):
Ghatokaca, Mina, notscience,


With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.


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Post Post #3221 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:32 pm

Post by Tammy »

~Prodded Ghatokaca~
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Post Post #3222 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:10 am

Post by Mina »

I had a moment of clarity earlier, and I feel like I'm fighting with myself to hold onto it.
In post 3176, Ghatokaca wrote:
In post 3174, Mina wrote:There's a lot more I want to ask people, but
V/LA until Wednesday or Thursday evening.
I won't have computer access until then. By the way, I'm intentionally not saying everything I'm thinking. Because I can feel myself being groomed to be the LYLO decider, and don't want to give away which way I'm leaning (if any way at all).
I think notscience is more likely to bring you to LyLo, but I think Ampersand probably brings me to LyLo. I will probably give out stuff I'm working on at the end of the day, but I don't want to post what I have right now until I know how to approach LyLo.
I'm talking about TODAY. THIS is LYLO. There may be a LYLO II if we play our cards right.

F-16 has openly said he thinks it's Malakittens-notscience. What worries me is that you've been devoting most of your posting today to attacking them, leaving aside a couple of sideways glances at Ampersand in the neighbourhood and the beginning of the day. But it feels like you're also leaving yourself open to vote Ampersand if it becomes more tactically advantageous. You've also given up on your me-suspicions today very easily.

Yes, I'm openly refusing to give stances, but in my case, everyone is setting this up as my vote deciding between Malakittens-notscience and Ghatokaca-Ampersand. There are strong strategic reasons for me not to show all my thoughts. You don't have that excuse. You're also not going to be nightkilled tonight even if you're town--too many people want to lynch you.

I want to see your honest, complete thought process. I also want you to be the next person to cast a vote. Malakittens or Ampersand. Pick one. There's at least one scum in there. If you're waiting for me to vote first...you should know that you're choosing the
wrong
person to have a war of patience with.
In post 3205, Malakittens wrote:Anyways:

Mina is town for the following:

<snip>

Also her mindset on LyLo looks a lot like my early-town LyLo play before it changed for the worse. ._.
How is my LYLO play more town than scum? I'm actually surprised that no one has attempted to push a case on me for being passive or something--probably because people think their odds are better by getting me on their side. Also, how does it resemble yours? How did yours change for the worst?

There's stuff I'll ask Ampersand when I get home from work.
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Post Post #3223 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:09 am

Post by Ghatokaca »

Responding to prod. I wanted to post some analysis so I can nail down the scumteam. I felt tuned out of this game.

Mina, why are you pressuring us to vote? I want NotScience or you to be the next person to cast a vote. If we can confirm ourself by not hammering, that's cool too.

~ F-16
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Post Post #3224 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:48 am

Post by Ampersand »

I think Mina is in a clearly better position to make that sort of demand than you are.
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