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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:20 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
What are your thoughts about AP scumreading you?
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:24 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:@ Nacho, I don't read Antihero based on supposed flaws in his reasoning. I read him based on whether he believes the pushes that he is making. He believes that the players he pushed are scum and he has a specific cocky confidence about that as town that I have not seen him be able to fake in his scumgames. How do you normally read Antihero? How many games have you played with him?
I do believe he's town when he believes in his pushes. When he isn't defending himself against me when I point out his shitty reasoning I don't think that's a sign of him believing his reasoning.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:24 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:Eyestott is very town by this point: what do you think is questionable about his play?
As I said before, I think Egg is probably town if he's a roleblocker. I don't think scum leaving boonskies alive doesn't use at least one shot on him and Boonskies-Egg team seems pretty ridiculous to me
For one, as your hydra partners themselves pointed out multiple times, he claims that he is a newb but his play betrays a better understanding of the game than he is letting through. His reads don't make any sense and aren't anything that I can follow logically which is more null than scum for me but I don't see it making much sense from a town POV either. His reasoning for clearing Boon is also pretty weak.
Also, I know you normally tend to townread people to give them space. Has your townread on Ffery ever been of that variety?
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:25 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
Why do you think he's believing what he's saying? It can't be because his reasoning is good, it can't be because he has conviction in it... What are you seeing that I'm not?
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:26 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
I would be surprised if he wasn't.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:28 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
What isn't logical about his read on Boon? He thought Boon was scum lying about role (same view as antihero), then when presented with indisputable proof that the role was real, he backed off.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:29 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
If he was an experienced player trying to play the newb card, he would play under an alt as opposed to switching names halfway through. I don't think he's used his newb status to cover up anything that would be a brilliant scum move.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:30 pm
by Murder of Crows
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:32 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: ↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:Eyestott is very town by this point: what do you think is questionable about his play?
As I said before, I think Egg is probably town if he's a roleblocker. I don't think scum leaving boonskies alive doesn't use at least one shot on him and Boonskies-Egg team seems pretty ridiculous to me
For one, as your hydra partners themselves pointed out multiple times, he claims that he is a newb but his play betrays a better understanding of the game than he is letting through. His reads don't make any sense and aren't anything that I can follow logically which is more null than scum for me but I don't see it making much sense from a town POV either. His reasoning for clearing Boon is also pretty weak.
Also, I know you normally tend to townread people to give them space. Has your townread on Ffery ever been of that variety?
Yes. Are you implying that my town read on ferry would be to give her room?
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:33 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
Also, you're still not addressing my concerns 're: your read on me. I'm looking for something along the "Nacho is town because" or "Nacho is scum because" or a good explanation why you couldn't possibly do that.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:34 pm
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
Please read! It's good for your health.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:38 pm
by Murder of Crows
The part where hes thinks boon is town for some reason. Although he did confess to having meta'd boon after I pressed him on that.
And how are you going to go about divining whether Egg is a town roleblocker or lying scum? Cause I'd sure like to know how your assertion is relevant.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:39 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote: ↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:@ Nacho, I don't read Antihero based on supposed flaws in his reasoning. I read him based on whether he believes the pushes that he is making. He believes that the players he pushed are scum and he has a specific cocky confidence about that as town that I have not seen him be able to fake in his scumgames. How do you normally read Antihero? How many games have you played with him?
I do believe he's town when he believes in his pushes. When he isn't defending himself against me when I point out his shitty reasoning I don't think that's a sign of him believing his reasoning.
3065,
3066,
2658, there are plenty of posts where he responds to you and defends his points so where is this lack of defense?
I've been scum against town-Antihero before but it was multiball and I was genuinely trying to read him and he hit a lot of very obvious town notes similar to what he's doing here. He's playing outside of his scum range. I've using two scumgames as reference.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:42 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:Why do you think he's believing what he's saying? It can't be because his reasoning is good, it can't be because he has conviction in it... What are you seeing that I'm not?
He has plenty of conviction in his reads. I point out a lot of his early game conviction in my reads list. His later game has plenty of conviction as well:
2651,
2676, for a start.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:45 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Why are you not actually engaging my initial read here?
↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
2) Antihero
- I liked Antihero's push on LMP out of RVS and the confidence in his push felt like the way he normally pushes scumreads as town and I have a really hard time seeing Antihero make
Post 167 as scum and I absolutely love the way he went about pushing his read in
Post 283 and the vibe that he gives off when he is town and knows that he is right is something Anithero is unable to fake. Would really like Ffery's explanation for her concerns here since the forcefulness with which he is pushing LMP matches the way he was pushing Pixel in Serum and Steel and I'm not sure why you are hung up on his push on you not matching his push in SS where he was wrong. Meta is progressive and if he pushed you as town and was wrong, it makes more sense to hesitate on a push there as opposed to push again with the same amount of certainty and I know that you know this based on my inside view of your scumhunting from Mafia In the Air. While I don't agree that the way Boonskiies used his role is scummy, Antihero's absolute confidence and belief that he caught scum in
Post 929 and subsequent interaction felt incredibly genuine and his skepticism that Boon would make a bad move as town makes a metric fuckton of sense when considered in light of
Mini 1609 where BoonSkiies played the VI card and went on to win as scum. I also feel that Anti as scum wouldn't be bold enough to make an aggressive attack on JesusBuddha the way he has and his interaction with them felt like he was genuinely trying to sort them out.
This was for his early game play. The previous links I posted were based on his more recent play.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:45 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:47 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:What isn't logical about his read on Boon? He thought Boon was scum lying about role (same view as antihero), then when presented with indisputable proof that the role was real, he backed off.
There's theoretically no reason to believe that Boon can't be scum just because he is an inventor.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:49 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
So are you giving her room or you just think there's no chance she's scum at all? I've seen you do this with other people before. For instance, in Book of Shadows, Wisdom scumread Mollie correctly and you told him to back off but later voted her and said that everyone would follow you now that you have endorsed that wagon. I want to understand the basis for your read or if you are bullshitting a stronger read than you actually have to give that person space to scumhunt without being attacked.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:50 pm
by Murder of Crows
Because thats mara's annoying-ass schtick and shes sticking to it.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:54 pm
by F-16_Fighting_Falcon
↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:Also, you're still not addressing my concerns 're: your read on me. I'm looking for something along the "Nacho is town because" or "Nacho is scum because" or a good explanation why you couldn't possibly do that.
I'm still trying to sort you. I don't get your townread on Murder. I don't like how I can't follow any of AP's thought process and his weird as shit interaction analysis. Also, you have never before expressed "paranoia" of me. You've said before that paranoia is something you lock away in a bin and never let it affect your play so it is not something I associate with your playstyle at all alignment regardless. I find Murder scummier than you on balance but the only townread I feel good about is Antihero and I think that if ffery is town, she would understand that read although I'm not positive about that.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:56 pm
by Murder of Crows
↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I don't like how I can't follow any of AP's thought process and his weird as shit interaction analysis.
If its any consolation, I can't follow any of the meta arguments you and ffery were having.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:08 pm
by Murder of Crows
The sentiment seems town though. I need to sync up with ffery. I really want today to be a proactive day though which means taking some hard stances sooner than later I hope. I'm still leaning towards Antihero/NAcho votes. I know F16 would prefer Nacho and Egg would prefer antihero of those.
I still want eyestott to at least acknowledge that I spent time talking about him.
I keep toying with the idea of actually looking at all possible scumteams and trying to eliminate some pairings I find unlikely. That sort of worked for me in comparative religion mafia.
I know have two players this game (both anti and mara) complaining about how I always misread them. You can both take that sentiment and shove it. I know I complain to Nero Cain every time he scumreads me, my alignment aside.
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:41 pm
by eyestott
↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: ↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:Eyestott is very town by this point: what do you think is questionable about his play?
As I said before, I think Egg is probably town if he's a roleblocker. I don't think scum leaving boonskies alive doesn't use at least one shot on him and Boonskies-Egg team seems pretty ridiculous to me
For one, as your hydra partners themselves pointed out multiple times, he claims that he is a newb but his play betrays a better understanding of the game than he is letting through. His reads don't make any sense and aren't anything that I can follow logically which is more null than scum for me but I don't see it making much sense from a town POV either. His reasoning for clearing Boon is also pretty weak.
Also, I know you normally tend to townread people to give them space. Has your townread on Ffery ever been of that variety?
What do you mean when you say my reads dont make sense? What are you talking about specifically? Why is it odd that I stop scumreading someone when my points are shown to be wrong?
↑ Murder of Crows wrote:The sentiment seems town though. I need to sync up with ffery. I really want today to be a proactive day though which means taking some hard stances sooner than later I hope. I'm still leaning towards Antihero/NAcho votes. I know F16 would prefer Nacho and Egg would prefer antihero of those.
I still want eyestott to at least acknowledge that I spent time talking about him.
I keep toying with the idea of actually looking at all possible scumteams and trying to eliminate some pairings I find unlikely. That sort of worked for me in comparative religion mafia.
I know have two players this game (both anti and mara) complaining about how I always misread them. You can both take that sentiment and shove it. I know I complain to Nero Cain every time he scumreads me, my alignment aside.
I acknowledge that you did?
I'm not sure what you want me to say?
Ive spread myself too thin as of late, and its showing in my games. If you want to talk with me, then great. What do you want to talk about?
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:42 pm
by eyestott
Sorry, this was supposed to be at the start.
↑ Murder of Crows wrote:Neither of them said very much about Istott. AA9 practically sat on a fencepost when talking about him in 393. My gut reaction to that is to think scum would try not to draw so much attention to JUST HOW NULL their read on a buddy is. One thing that has irked me about Eyestott and that I keep alluding to but never addressing is his opinion on AA9 in 372. AA9 was the only person he actually took anything of a stance on by calling her a 3 on his patented 1-10 scale. This was around the time AA9 was getting pressure from people (notably Serra) and Eye spends a lot of his realestate talking about something offsite and loosely concluding that AA9 freaking out is scummy. Meh.
Why does my correct scumread irk you? I mean, I was right. I dont know what you want me to say about this.
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:47 am
by jesusbuddhavrishnathebest
↑ Murder of Crows wrote:
The part where hes thinks boon is town for some reason. Although he did confess to having meta'd boon after I pressed him on that.
And how are you going to go about divining whether Egg is a town roleblocker or lying scum? Cause I'd sure like to know how your assertion is relevant.
What about antihero scumreading boon for lying about a role he has been proven to have?
As for the egg problem, I'm gonna have him roleblock boonskies and then I'm going to stare into his soul.