Mini 1547 - Wicked Mafia (Game Over!)


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Post Post #3225 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:01 am

Post by Mina »

And I don't care what you want. I've thought through the scenarios. You have to be the next person to vote. Notscience and I aren't scum together, and we outnumber you. You looked townish in the neighbourhood, but I don't like the approach you've taken today, because it feels like you're just waiting for a cross-vote so you can decide which team to push and avoiding taking stances or really scumhunting. So you don't get last-voter privileges. I would feel much better about your slot if you voted.

Can you at least get Nacho to say who he'd hypothetically vote? How do you feel tuned out of LYLO, particularly when you were acting earlier as though you were reasonably confident in Mala-notscience? Also, I feel like both sentences in your post are conflicting.

Also, can you sell me again on why you're so obviously town this game? I feel that your tone has been robotic today.
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Post Post #3226 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:04 am

Post by Malakittens »

Will reply when at home.

Also I'm probably gonna be V/LA for Sat and Sunday for religious holidays and family gathering. Probably will check in at least once for modding games, but that's probably about it.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3227 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:15 am

Post by Ghatokaca »

In post 3225, Mina wrote:And I don't care what you want. I've thought through the scenarios. You have to be the next person to vote. Notscience and I aren't scum together, and we outnumber you. You looked townish in the neighbourhood, but I don't like the approach you've taken today, because it feels like you're just waiting for a cross-vote so you can decide which team to push and avoiding taking stances or really scumhunting. So you don't get last-voter privileges. I would feel much better about your slot if you voted.

Can you at least get Nacho to say who he'd hypothetically vote? How do you feel tuned out of LYLO, particularly when you were acting earlier as though you were reasonably confident in Mala-notscience? Also, I feel like both sentences in your post are conflicting.

Also, can you sell me again on why you're so obviously town this game? I feel that your tone has been robotic today.
Obviously you and NotScience aren't scum together.

It is either NS/Mala, you/Mala, NS/Amper, you/Amper, or Mala/Amper.

I peaked around the end of last night and felt I thought it was NS/Mala and then the energy went downhill.

I always prefer being the last vote in LYLO so if we are going to have a patience war, we're going to have a patience war. Invite NS to join as well.

I am break from this game to refresh myself and when I am back, I am going to thoroughly analyze every bit of it and I am not voting before I am done. You are bringing out the really stubborn part in me. I'll vote when I am good and ready and most likely it is not going to be before either/both of you vote.

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Post Post #3228 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:21 am

Post by Ghatokaca »

In post 3227, Ghatokaca wrote:because it feels like you're just waiting for a cross-vote so you can decide which team to push and avoiding taking stances or really scumhunting.
Are you actually serious in pushing this as something alignment indicative? You are a better player than to say that wanting to be the deciding vote is something that only scum would want. Scum obviously want that so they can quickhammer but town wants it as well if they want to make the final decision as opposed to 1v1.

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Post Post #3229 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:08 am

Post by Ghatokaca »

Less snarky response, if you feel confident on one of the players, then vote them. If not, then try and figure it out. Stop telling us to vote, it is giving me the creeps.

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Post Post #3230 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:49 am

Post by Tammy »

Vote Count 5.6
Malakittens (1) - Ampersand
Ampersand (1) - malakittens


Not Voting (3):
Ghatokaca, Mina, notscience,


With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.


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Post Post #3231 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:40 am

Post by Malakittens »

In post 3227, Ghatokaca wrote:
In post 3225, Mina wrote:And I don't care what you want. I've thought through the scenarios. You have to be the next person to vote. Notscience and I aren't scum together, and we outnumber you. You looked townish in the neighbourhood, but I don't like the approach you've taken today, because it feels like you're just waiting for a cross-vote so you can decide which team to push and avoiding taking stances or really scumhunting. So you don't get last-voter privileges. I would feel much better about your slot if you voted.

Can you at least get Nacho to say who he'd hypothetically vote? How do you feel tuned out of LYLO, particularly when you were acting earlier as though you were reasonably confident in Mala-notscience? Also, I feel like both sentences in your post are conflicting.

Also, can you sell me again on why you're so obviously town this game? I feel that your tone has been robotic today.
Obviously you and NotScience aren't scum together.

It is either NS/Mala, you/Mala, NS/Amper, you/Amper, or Mala/Amper.

I peaked around the end of last night and felt I thought it was NS/Mala and then the energy went downhill.

I always prefer being the last vote in LYLO so if we are going to have a patience war, we're going to have a patience war. Invite NS to join as well.

I am break from this game to refresh myself and when I am back, I am going to thoroughly analyze every bit of it and I am not voting before I am done. You are bringing out the really stubborn part in me. I'll vote when I am good and ready and most likely it is not going to be before either/both of you vote.

~ F-16
Something about this post that I don't like.

Can you show examples of you being the last to vote in LyLo as town?

Why did you have to wait this long for you to start analyzing? It's interesting after you are called out this is the response we get.
In post 3222, Mina wrote:
In post 3205, Malakittens wrote:Anyways:

Mina is town for the following:

<snip>

Also her mindset on LyLo looks a lot like my early-town LyLo play before it changed for the worse. ._.
How is my LYLO play more town than scum? I'm actually surprised that no one has attempted to push a case on me for being passive or something--probably because people think their odds are better by getting me on their side. Also, how does it resemble yours? How did yours change for the worst?

There's stuff I'll ask Ampersand when I get home from work.
It's because you are keeping your reads close to your chest and if you are town this actually bothers the scum. They don't know if you are looking at them, they don't know who you are looking at. They don't know where your vote is landing and they are probably waiting for you to go a certain way before they make a move. I remember being town in a LyLo against Klick with this mindset and he kept prod dodging until I finally made a move and it ended up being wrong. It bothered him enough that he wasn't sure how the game was going to go; if he was going to lose or win.

Also it's not like you are really passive to say as you are hunting people and looking for reactions. You are analyzing so to expect someone to call you out when A) you been V/LA for the last two nights and B) when you are actually here you aren't being passive besides holding your vote and you reads.

Mine changed for the worse because after that I realized that even though I held my reads back in LyLo that I still wasn't someone people perceive as a threat if I managed to get to LyLo and
still
managed to get lynched in LyLo for the loss. I tried a different approach to be a bit aggressive and when that didn't work I tried a different approach to have my reads transparent. Either way I still haven't found the correct playstyle for me even though I been playing this site for a few years now.
In post 3223, Ghatokaca wrote:Responding to prod. I wanted to post some analysis so I can nail down the scumteam. I felt tuned out of this game.

Mina, why are you pressuring us to vote? I want NotScience or you to be the next person to cast a vote. If we can confirm ourself by not hammering, that's cool too.

~ F-16
Yeah and yet you can be scum slowly waiting for a vote so you can hammer for the win. No thanks, if you want to confirm yourself as town then do something than show up after you get prodded.
In post 3224, Ampersand wrote:I think Mina is in a clearly better position to make that sort of demand than you are.
Even though you are scum this indeed is true. At least Mina is showing that's she's very highly likely town.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3232 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:55 pm

Post by Ghatokaca »

Okay, legitimately answering since I am less pissed off.
In post 3222, Mina wrote:I'm talking about TODAY. THIS is LYLO. There may be a LYLO II if we play our cards right.

F-16 has openly said he thinks it's Malakittens-notscience. What worries me is that you've been devoting most of your posting today to attacking them, leaving aside a couple of sideways glances at Ampersand in the neighbourhood and the beginning of the day. But it feels like you're also leaving yourself open to vote Ampersand if it becomes more tactically advantageous. You've also given up on your me-suspicions today very easily.

Yes, I'm openly refusing to give stances, but in my case, everyone is setting this up as my vote deciding between Malakittens-notscience and Ghatokaca-Ampersand. There are strong strategic reasons for me not to show all my thoughts. You don't have that excuse. You're also not going to be nightkilled tonight even if you're town--too many people want to lynch you.

I want to see your honest, complete thought process. I also want you to be the next person to cast a vote. Malakittens or Ampersand. Pick one. There's at least one scum in there. If you're waiting for me to vote first...you should know that you're choosing the wrong person to have a war of patience with.
Our reads are just what they are. Nacho has some paranoia about Ampersand but I feel more confident about them. I actually have some paranoia of you. There are no "sideways glances," it was us considering all the possibilitities. If I gave up on the you-suspicions, I wouldn't be so annoyed at myself.

I think you are creating a scenario where you are the decider. The idea has some merit as NotScience and Mala are pushing it as us and Amper being scum, we are pushing it as NotScience and Mala being scum, and Amper are pushing it as Mala being scum with NotScience potentially being the other with us also as a possibility. No one is really pushing you directly as scum. That doesn't mean it is set in stone and I am not going to just write you off as town until I have more of a handle on your game.

I looked through your recent completed games and I am not yet happy with my meta results. I want to look at your games off-site if that is possible and take a look at it from a broader perspective. Could you provide me some links? If I can at least eliminate you as a suspect, I'll be able to narrow it down even further. After that, I'll look through Fenchurch's, NotScience's, and Mala's past games to see if my hypothesis is correct.

Ampersand is right that you are probably in a better position to make demands to vote. I am still not happy with the trying to force us to do stuff before we're ready but that's okay. If you or NotScience are ready to vote, the choice is yours to make and I'd actually prefer it happen that way.
In post 3225, Mina wrote:And I don't care what you want. I've thought through the scenarios. You have to be the next person to vote. Notscience and I aren't scum together, and we outnumber you. You looked townish in the neighbourhood, but I don't like the approach you've taken today, because it feels like you're just waiting for a cross-vote so you can decide which team to push and avoiding taking stances or really scumhunting. So you don't get last-voter privileges. I would feel much better about your slot if you voted.

Can you at least get Nacho to say who he'd hypothetically vote? How do you feel tuned out of LYLO, particularly when you were acting earlier as though you were reasonably confident in Mala-notscience? Also, I feel like both sentences in your post are conflicting.

Also, can you sell me again on why you're so obviously town this game? I feel that your tone has been robotic today.
See, the reason I am getting ticked off is that your stances swing from one end to the other like a pendulum but you keep pushing the hell out of me to commit to a position which given the amount of waffling you are doing, you should be able to understand why I am hesitant to vote. In the scenario that the scumteam is you and Amper, we would lose.

There are a few other reasons that give me pause:

1) Malakittens opening in the game was strong. Her play was natural, she was active and posting a lot of content. People that knew Malakittens had initially townread her like Medea the Alien.

2) Her outgoing nature at the beginning of the game felt town and I can see the perception that she is not a particularly outgoing player as scum.

3) Her gladiator claim where she put herself on the line to soft-cc BRO when he fake-claimed vig. Scum don't assume that town are fake-claiming, they assume that town are claiming their real role and don't soft-cc them.

4) If she dislikes drawing scum, her D1 play is difficult to account for and that's something I need to consider. She has faded out which makes me lean towards the possibility that she is scum but her play D1 and the rest of her play contrast with each other. Are you seeing what I saying there?

I can't answer regarding my tone being robotic. I've been told before that I sounded robotic both when I was town (by MattP in Welcome to Swagtown, and by Faraday in an MD discussion thread). I am fucking sorry I feel robotic I guess. I don't want to be robotic but it isn't something I can magically make it so unless I understand why I sound robotic or even how exactly I sound robotic. I am an analytical player. I spend time analyzing the game. I am not the best at making pushes on players although I can post analysis which leads to the lynches of scum and make cases that people agree with depending on the playerlist. I am much more of a collaborative player that tries to solve the game and work with others to lynch whoever of my scumreads can be lynched. I am not an extremely charismatic player that always, always gets what they want.

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Post Post #3233 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:12 pm

Post by Ghatokaca »

In post 3231, Malakittens wrote:Something about this post that I don't like.

Can you show examples of you being the last to vote in LyLo as town?

Why did you have to wait this long for you to start analyzing? It's interesting after you are called out this is the response we get.
I can't imagine what you don't like about it.

As for voting last in LYLO,
In Micro 70: Mafia in Triplicate, I voted last in a 3P "LYLO" block. See the game mechanics to understand what I mean.

In Micro 65: No Town Lynched, I waited for Gregory (scum) to vote first. Me and Nacho were town. He voted me, then I panicked and voted Nacho because I was overly paranoid. I sort of had the feeling that Nacho was scum but I was wrong. Thankfully, Gregory logged off and Nacho logged on and told me what a terrible vote that was and I unvoted and voted Gregory. Nacho chose right. Not one of my proudest moments at all.

In Stratego Mafia II, I was in 6P MYLO and got endgamed. I was not voting.

In Open 462, it was during the winter break for me and I knew who one of the scum was but missed a chance to vote by deadline and the deadline expired and we lost.

In Newbie 1415, I waited till one of the players had two votes in 4P MYLO and confirmed myself by not hammering before I claimed a guilty on the last scum player.

In Micro 295: Cowardly Hider, I yelled a lot at NotScience and another player for suspecting us in LYLO but never voted anyone.

So, there's a summary of my LYLO behaviors. I don't think I ever just came into a LYLO and cast a vote and left the final decision to another player.

I have been thinking about and analyzing this game and it has been in the back of my mind.

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Post Post #3234 (ISO) » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Post by Ampersand »

In post 3232, Ghatokaca wrote:3) Her gladiator claim where she put herself on the line to soft-cc BRO when he fake-claimed vig. Scum don't assume that town are fake-claiming, they assume that town are claiming their real role and don't soft-cc them.
Fenchurch already gave an explanation in the neighbourhood N2, but look at it from the perspective of Mala, scum gladiator. The flavour matches and she definitely wants to claim Gladiator; now a vig claims, which she (presumably) believes to clash with her role and given that belief she might reasonably feel that if she just lets it pass, that'll contradict her later claim. I see the strong way she pushed it as more consistent with her wanting to act in a way appropriate to her PR and maybe overdoing it a bit (she might also intentionally have tried to get him mislynched a bit but I agree it's an unlikely main motive, more of a contributing factor) than with her being a Town Gladiator (it's not the biggest stretch in the world to believe both roles are in the game).

Her being a scum gladiator might also go some way towards explainining her initial enthusiasm.
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Post Post #3235 (ISO) » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:55 am

Post by Tammy »

~Prodding Notscience~
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Post Post #3236 (ISO) » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:41 am

Post by notscience »

>.>

Sorry, I'm in NC visiting relatives.

I'll et a catchup post and maybe the malawall tonight but we'll have to see about the latter.
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Post Post #3237 (ISO) » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:56 pm

Post by Mina »

Since people don't seem to be cooperating, how's this? I show my hand on Wednesday. However, the cards in it will be affected by what certain people do in the next few days.

And fair warning, Ghatokaca: if you continue playing LYLO like this (I'm not even talking about the lack of vote or the "waffliness"--moreso the lack of certain things I'd expect from you if you were town, which I don't want to give away yet), and use the Wednesday "deadline" as an excuse to stall until then, things will not look pretty for you. Particularly if your one contribution, knowing that there's confirmed scum in {Malakittens, Ampersand}, is yet ANOTHER meta analysis of "here's all this stuff Mina has done in past games, and here are some patterns that aren't actually relevant to her alignment, so I don't know, she could be scum."

(You need an account to view most of the Westeros games anyway, although I can dig up a couple of really ancient archived games from like 2010 if you'd like. But frankly, I could not give less of a shit about your meta analysis of me, because you've been meta-analyzing me all game and come to no useful conclusions from it. I'm tempted to ask what your "null" conclusions were from D3, since you haven't shown your work much since the end of D2, but I don't really want to encourage you. I'd be mildly curious to see what you come up for someone like notscience or CES. But really, I'm most interested in your thoughts on this game, because I'd expect you and Nacho as town to have a different focus. And also, I think you feel like you're on safe ground when you do meta dives.)

Also, after now, everyone loses the right to say, "Uh, actually, I totally saw X, but didn't feel like sharing it." You're tied down to the reads you've stated in the thread. I gave Nacho ample time to post what he claimed he was leaving for the end of the day. F-16, have you communicated with Nacho this day phase?

By the way, do you seriously think me-Ampersand is remotely plausible? Another problem I had is with you treating every single partnership as equally likely--it's what I mean by robotic. (P.S.: throwing in the word "fucking" once doesn't make your tone less robotic.) You're saying a lot of safe, 100% objective stuff like "these are the partnerships that are technically POSSIBLE," "here's a list of people whose past games I want to reread," and "if town votes town, there will be a quickhammer."
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Post Post #3238 (ISO) » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:12 pm

Post by Tammy »

~Prodding malakittens~
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Post Post #3239 (ISO) » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Post by Tammy »

Vote Count 5.7
Malakittens (1) - Ampersand
Ampersand (1) - malakittens


Not Voting (3):
Ghatokaca, Mina, notscience,


With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.


Deadline is on Saturday, April 26th at 9:30am CST or : (expired on 2014-04-26 10:30:12)
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Post Post #3240 (ISO) » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:38 pm

Post by Ghatokaca »

We are going to vote Mala.
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Post Post #3241 (ISO) » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:39 pm

Post by Ghatokaca »

I am dissatisfied with Notscience disappearing every time I do.
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Post Post #3242 (ISO) » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:41 pm

Post by Ghatokaca »

(which is part of the reason it feels like we're being set up for LyLo, by the way: notscience's posting is pretty much entirely NACHO NACHO NACHO and getting payback after recent betrayals could be the motivation that keeps him posting).
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Post Post #3243 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:51 am

Post by Malakittens »

To be fair you are a two headed hydra you shouldn't disappear at all.~
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3244 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:45 am

Post by Mina »

Can everyone give their suspect lists now? (Yes, some of you have given it already, but maybe something's changed. )

Nacho, have you and F -16 spoken much today?
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Post Post #3245 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:58 am

Post by Ampersand »

In post 3242, Ghatokaca wrote:(which is part of the reason it feels like we're being set up for LyLo, by the way: notscience's posting is pretty much entirely NACHO NACHO NACHO and getting payback after recent betrayals could be the motivation that keeps him posting).
Yeah, this is probably the most important thing that's happened Today. I believe we should get a Malalynch here and it feels really off how notscience has just kind of ignored the fact that that's been happening (beyond making an unconvincing argument and then just describing a bunch of games they were both in). He's been so focused on Nacho when we're supposed to be a big suspect of his and we're trying to get one of his town reads lynched - he's not pushing us, he's not even suggesting we could be scum with Nacho.

Looking through his posts today, it's also worth noting the following post:
In post 3170, notscience wrote:Also some food for thought

I think Mala prefers town more than she prefers scum
Compare this to his town case on Mala, where the only argument he actually puts forward is:
In post 3211, notscience wrote:We both hate drawing scum. How do I know this? Her scumgames versus her towngames. We both lurkaderp as scum. The first game I ever played with her way back in like May of last year she was in a hydra with Mara and Mollie and I want to say she only posted 1/2 times in the whole game when her hydra was actually one of the people in endgame (before I shot them :P)
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Post Post #3246 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:07 pm

Post by notscience »

It's not my fucking town case

I also have been sporadic for the past week or so because I was on vacation and now have a big project for school.

So.

@Mina

It's amper/Ghato.
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Post Post #3247 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:12 pm

Post by Malakittens »

In post 3244, Mina wrote:Can everyone give their suspect lists now? (Yes, some of you have given it already, but maybe something's changed. )
Amper/Ghat.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #3248 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:14 pm

Post by Mina »

notscience, I thought you were paranoid of me again.

Do people just know I like being called town and hearing nice things about myself? :( Dammit.

Another question: who does everyone think
I
suspect/am going to vote for today? (This may sound self-absorbed, but I'm asking this for a reason.)
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Post Post #3249 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:19 pm

Post by notscience »

Oh I am

But yoloswag for jezus

Only person you can be scum with is Mala

and seeing as I'm townreading mala
Locked