Page 130 of 199
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:15 pm
by Bitmap
In post 3221, Kagami wrote:
That's not a tl;dr.
I had read Dunn's ISO before, and don't recall anything super interesting, hence the request for a summary through the eyes of everyone's favorite raster format.
In post 2734, Dunnstral wrote: In post 2729, MariaR wrote:
I want you to explain your scumread without using buzz words because half of the stuff your accusing me is stuff that isn't happening and is just baseless assumptions. I want you to explain why Bit is town because they're very clearly scum in my eyes. Do that and I'll answer your questions.
pedit: You'd be surprised. Also I've stated meta doesn't work on me in many games not just this one, because it doesn't. If my play was so easy to detect with Meta I wouldn't have such a highscum winrate.
My scumread on you is as follows:
- You are playing a very neutral game, other people see this as towny but it's not, for you, it's something you can easily do as scum
- You repeatedly ask the same question instead of taking the initiative when I'm explaining why I think bitmap is town multiple times in thread
- Process of elimination - other people look towny and you don't
- You avoid answering questions and then say "why would I do that as scum" - that's not how it works. I don't know why you'd do it as scum, but it doesn't make you town. Why would you do it as town?
- As soon as I voted you you did a 180 where even though you refused to give reads on me when I asked multiple times, all of a sudden I 'could be scum, if bitmap is town'
-Pushing easy lynches
-Setting up Dunn for getting auto-lynched whether or not he picked me or Alisae
There's some more but I'm going to play video games. So I'll post sometime in a few hours.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:16 pm
by MariaR
In post 2568, MariaR wrote:Just because someone is easy to lynch/considered lynch bait doesn’t mean they can’t be scum. It means legit nothing.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:17 pm
by MariaR
The most easy lynch in the game just flipped scum. If pushing easy lynches is scummy you should scumread half the playerlist
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:17 pm
by Bitmap
Second point still stands.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:19 pm
by MariaR
Scum me doesn't need to set up Dunn for an auto lynch when he's so easy to pocket. Plus I admitted to that statement when I didn't need to if I'm scum. The whole reason your 'second point' exists is because of me. I thought Dunn was scummy then he paired with you and became towny. What's so scummy about that.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:25 pm
by Bitmap
But you literally told him:
-You pair with bitmap, I'm going to lynch you cause of bitmap.
-You pair with Alisae, I'm going to scumread you.
You literally were setting him up for an autolynch.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:25 pm
by Kagami
In post 3225, Bitmap wrote: In post 3221, Kagami wrote:
That's not a tl;dr.
I had read Dunn's ISO before, and don't recall anything super interesting, hence the request for a summary through the eyes of everyone's favorite raster format.
In post 2734, Dunnstral wrote: In post 2729, MariaR wrote:
I want you to explain your scumread without using buzz words because half of the stuff your accusing me is stuff that isn't happening and is just baseless assumptions. I want you to explain why Bit is town because they're very clearly scum in my eyes. Do that and I'll answer your questions.
pedit: You'd be surprised. Also I've stated meta doesn't work on me in many games not just this one, because it doesn't. If my play was so easy to detect with Meta I wouldn't have such a highscum winrate.
My scumread on you is as follows:
- You are playing a very neutral game, other people see this as towny but it's not, for you, it's something you can easily do as scum
- You repeatedly ask the same question instead of taking the initiative when I'm explaining why I think bitmap is town multiple times in thread
- Process of elimination - other people look towny and you don't
- You avoid answering questions and then say "why would I do that as scum" - that's not how it works. I don't know why you'd do it as scum, but it doesn't make you town. Why would you do it as town?
- As soon as I voted you you did a 180 where even though you refused to give reads on me when I asked multiple times, all of a sudden I 'could be scum, if bitmap is town'
-Pushing easy lynches
-Setting up Dunn for getting auto-lynched whether or not he picked me or Alisae
There's some more but I'm going to play video games. So I'll post sometime in a few hours.
Dunn's townread on you is shallow and boring, so I don't take issue with Maria not liking it, especially since Dunn was being explicitly cagey about it. Now if Dunn has a strong meta-read that he would bet his life on (which is the first bullet there), I would take that into consideration.
That said, there are some things I see in maria's iso that are worthy of suspicion.
Ank, can you flesh out the GR read for me?
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:26 pm
by Bitmap
@Mariar: I don't know if his scum read on you was from his annoyance of you or an actual scum read since I never played with either of you before.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:27 pm
by Ankamius
independently, I thought that the way GR was handling the pressure on her was a really townish tone, very different from what I've seen from her in ircher's large normal
I admit I can be wrong on that mainly because from what I can tell (krazy's meta on her), she tryhards a lot more as scum than town and that technically could be in play this game
although I also don't really feel like she's being especially conscious of where her reads are at so idk
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:27 pm
by MariaR
In post 3230, Bitmap wrote:But you literally told him:
-You pair with bitmap, I'm going to lynch you cause of bitmap.
-You pair with Alisae, I'm going to scumread you.
You literally were setting him up for an autolynch.
Yes. Because I was scumreading you and he paired with you
And I was scumreading Dunn before he paired up with you. It's called changing stances.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:28 pm
by Ankamius
one thing I will note is that I locktowned her in that game despite her being scum, although that's not entirely relevant either since I was primarily using VCA and NKA to find scum and I was assuming a larger team than actually existed
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:28 pm
by MariaR
In post 3232, Bitmap wrote:@Mariar: I don't know if his scum read on you was from his annoyance of you or an actual scum read since I never played with either of you before.
Dunn doesn't scumread me because he can't read me right. Ever since I tricked him hard as scum before his rep of reading me went down so he doesn't like to commit a townread on me anymore.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:29 pm
by Kagami
Has maria supported your read or otherwise spoken to you about GR-creature pair?
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:29 pm
by Kagami
(in the pt, that is)
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:31 pm
by Ankamius
nah, we haven't spoken a whole lot about specific reads, mostly about pairing priorities, which we've been mostly synced on all game
only one we've really talked about was unwnd
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:31 pm
by Ankamius
pairing priorities as in which pairings we want to lynch in what order
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:47 pm
by unwnd
Deas vote onto Bitmap reads opportunistic but it almost reads in a way that is positive because I run under the assumption Deas wouldn't make himself look so obvious there.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:56 pm
by unwnd
Alright so I'm probably gonna do a dive into pairings and pre-dance
I think pops mentioned it about Creature but there's other instances that concern me. There's not really a way of knowing if there's one last gentscum and oneladyscum right? Like, is it possible there was only one gentscum and two ladyscum? I understand this is WIFOM but running under the assumption of other will change how I view the pre-dance and how things went down. I've been talking about it a little bit in-thread and PT but Ali being gone the way they were makes me feel like scum got the jump early on some ladies therefore I feel like it's 2gent/1lady here.
Nothing that confirms it, just if people wanna bother with semantics they may join me as I go look through some shit
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:56 pm
by Dunnstral
Read the posts in between?
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:25 pm
by unwnd
This setup is made a bit more strongly than I thought and I don't think I can make a confirmed path to victory without there being a lack of assurance. I was looking into how many ladies are left and it's pretty much confirmed that we will run out of ladies to hang before gents so I was thinking 'let's just lynch down the list under no ladies are left' but this probably isn't the best idea.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:27 pm
by Ankamius
big reason I judge pairings, unwnd
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:40 pm
by Ankamius
ftr I don't really think there's very good odds of one half having two scum in it just by play, I think a lot of these pairings ended up happening for reasons that are mostly independent of alignment
Like really, Ceph + Deas is very unlikely to be alignment indicative for either
FB + Shiro is an obvious pairing
Kagami + Gaiden is an obvious pairing
Then you have MariaR and me, which is probably something that we would both do in TvT, TvS, and SvT in whichever scenario, probably something you'd have to really dig at to narrow it down just from that angle alone
Then you have Oka + Gamma, which Oka probably went for to ensure he'd have a somewhat reasonable chance of getting through predance without having to settle
The other three is basically forced in some way
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:43 pm
by Ankamius
Btw scum!me most likely pairs with MariaR because I think she'd be one of the biggest threats to my team in this plist and it would help me control the game if I could take her out when I feel like it would help my team win
Or even better, use her hunting in the PT to pocket the rest of the game and powerwolf the game where I want it to be
I could see MariaR picking me as a partner for a similar reason since I tend to be a major wildcard as town
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:43 pm
by unwnd
The other three is basically forced in some way
Is that where you think scum lies? I sorta see the possibility of an obvious pairing having one red in there
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:45 pm
by Ankamius
I think Dunn just derped and took a scum partner over two significantly more town ones